BC Carbon Tax Reminder

[Team Firecracker]

Just a quick note to remind all BC operators to top up their fuel tanks by June 30th at midnight. Jet A-1 will immediately increase $0.0261 and Av will be up $0.0246. You can pretty much guarantee we`ll bump that to 3 Cents.

and remember.....don`t take it out on your refueller, it`s not his fault

[2R]

Hey you gotta pay for the olympics somehow ??? and by calling the tax a green tax it should make you feel all nice warm and fuzzy everytime you pay it knowing that the extra money will save the planet

Could be worse the new aids test requires you drop your pants and bend over Results in three days although it may require more testing

[Cat Driver]

Could be worse the new aids test requires you drop your pants and bend over Results in three days although it may require more testing

The idea is to keep getting tested until you test positive.

[arcticbeaches]

The tax is revenue neutral it doesn't fund the olympics.

An average consumer will not suffer any financial loss as a result of the carbon tax due to the associated income tax reductions. Only individuals who use excessive amounts of fossil fuels or industry will be seriously affected. Low income residents of BC will receive checks to ensure they can meet their basic heating/transport requirements. (This year every resident will receive a one-time cheque)

[Cat Driver]

The tax is revenue neutral

That is the same as telling a trusting young thing that you you will pull out.

All she needs do is trust you.

[v6g]

I'm in favour of this tax.

Global oil demand has been rising faster than supply for the last decade and the gap is increasing (Google "BP statistical review"). We have some of the cheapest fuel in all the developed world and waste far too much of it.

I hate filling up as much as anyone else, but increased taxation on fuel is the best way to reduce demand. With taxation, the taxpayer gets to see some of it again in the form of increased services (Government waste is a separate issue), whereas without tax, the oil company shareholders are the only ones to profit.

Besides, it is offset by reductions in income taxes, so it's more of a choice tax - you have control over how much of it you pay by changing your oil consumption habits. Whereas income tax gives you no choice. Although I certainly expect it to increase in years to come ... a little at first, offset by some other reduction, then a bit more, then a bit more....

My only grievances with it are:
i) that there should be more of a variation between rural and urban gas tax. In the cities we have a good viable alternative in transit but the urban areas don't. The GVRD already levies about 10c/L for transit but I think there should be a greater disparity between rural areas.
ii) Don't call it a "Carbon tax" - that's just an insult to the public's intelligence it's nothing to do with the environment (although considering the amount of incessant whinging about it maybe that's a good thing).

[small penguin]

As a GA pilot a tax like that would only piss me off. It wouldnt change my flying habits at all. Of course, if that tax money went in with refitting my airplane with an engine that doesnt burn AVGAS, then I wouldnt complain. Alas, I only have two options. Fly consuming AVGAS, or not fly. And the latter, is definitely unacceptable.

[alctel]

Since I don't drive this means I actually get MORE money, so I'm in favour!

[SierraPoppa]

The tax is revenue neutral it doesn't fund the olympics.

An average consumer will not suffer any financial loss as a result of the carbon tax due to the associated income tax reductions. Only individuals who use excessive amounts of fossil fuels or industry will be seriously affected. Low income residents of BC will receive checks to ensure they can meet their basic heating/transport requirements. (This year every resident will receive a one-time cheque)

It'll affect visitors to the province.

No income tax reduction for them.

[BoostedNihilist]

On a related note, the h2 I am bidding on is 50% off retail and two years old

[SierraPoppa]

On a related note, the h2 I am bidding on is 50% off retail and two years old

You couldn't even pay me to drive an H2.

[Dash-Ate]

I'm in favour of this tax.

Global oil demand has been rising faster than supply for the last decade and the gap is increasing (Google "BP statistical review"). We have some of the cheapest fuel in all the developed world and waste far too much of it.

I hate filling up as much as anyone else, but increased taxation on fuel is the best way to reduce demand. With taxation, the taxpayer gets to see some of it again in the form of increased services (Government waste is a separate issue), whereas without tax, the oil company shareholders are the only ones to profit.

Besides, it is offset by reductions in income taxes, so it's more of a choice tax - you have control over how much of it you pay by changing your oil consumption habits. Whereas income tax gives you no choice. Although I certainly expect it to increase in years to come ... a little at first, offset by some other reduction, then a bit more, then a bit more....

My only grievances with it are:
i) that there should be more of a variation between rural and urban gas tax. In the cities we have a good viable alternative in transit but the urban areas don't. The GVRD already levies about 10c/L for transit but I think there should be a greater disparity between rural areas.
ii) Don't call it a "Carbon tax" - that's just an insult to the public's intelligence it's nothing to do with the environment (although considering the amount of incessant whinging about it maybe that's a good thing).

Please leave this country now.

[v6g]

I'm in favour of this tax.

Global oil demand has been rising faster than supply for the last decade and the gap is increasing ....

Please leave this country now.

Well, can you suggest a better way of inhibiting demand? Or would you rather see all the wealth created by the demand-supply imbalance transferred directly to the oil company shareholders (and bypassing the citizens)?

[Team Firecracker]

Inter-jurisdictional operators can apply for a carbon tax refund for portions of flight outside B.C. (dont ask me how thats calculated, ie takeoff yvr, transit south through U.S. then to points east) And American operators can apply for a carbon tax exeption. ie, Horizon won't have to pay any tax even for flights over B.C.

[BoostedNihilist]

Personally I think this tax erodes our freedom. You want to tax someone, tax the people who make the fucking stuff. If they download it right back down on me that is their prerogative but the fact that the government would 'punish' (it is a negative reinforcement) me into conservation of a resource that is sold through the private sector is bullshit. That's like them saying 'oh mohawk sold a lot of oh henries this past decade.. lets tax the shit out of them!'

If you believe that this tax has any altruistic motive pull your head out of your ass it is a money grab pure and simple.

You couldn't even pay me to drive an H2.

I wouldn't pay you to drive anything... can drive it myself for free

Well, can you suggest a better way of inhibiting demand? Or would you rather see all the wealth created by the demand-supply imbalance transferred directly to the oil company shareholders (and bypassing the citizens)?

If you are suggesting that increasing the cost will decrease the demand you are smoking some seriously hq stuff. Obviously, increasing the price will not curb demand it hasn't worked yet, I doubt it will work in the future.

I know how to inhibit demand. All of those who give a shit about global warming (I.E. hippies) can simply stop driving or using any system which utilizes petroleum products. That way my gas will get cheaper, and I can drive more.

I'm still not convinced 'global warming' is caused by emissions anyways. It's all a hoax

[SierraPoppa]

You couldn't even pay me to drive an H2.

I wouldn't pay you to drive anything... can drive it myself for free

You get free gas?

[alctel]

If you are suggesting that increasing the cost will decrease the demand you are smoking some seriously hq stuff. Obviously, increasing the price will not curb demand it hasn't worked yet, I doubt it will work in the future.

Are you kidding? Since the gas prices have gone up, people have been driving a lot less - see http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/18/driving.cutbacks/ for one example. Translinks statistics from Vancouver also back this up as well.

I know how to inhibit demand. All of those who give a shit about global warming (I.E. hippies) can simply stop driving or using any system which utilizes petroleum products. That way my gas will get cheaper, and I can drive more.

I'm still not convinced 'global warming' is caused by emissions anyways. It's all a hoax

Ok, now I think you are simply trolling - there is a vast, VAST amount of evidence out there that humans have changed the planets climate very quickly in the last couple of hundred years through a number of ways, not least is the release of carbon into the atmosphere. A couple of hours research would show you this.

The evidence is almost insurmountable, and is only challenged by a few groups of right wing think tanks who use surveys and experiments paid for by oil companies (most of the time these are the same nut-cases who fund the 'creationism' theories in American schools and make them take evolution out of the classroom). Half the time they misquote scientists without their knowledge and use their names without their permission, and have to be challenged in court to take it off.

I am in no way a hippie, and I don't know how old you are, but people my age (mid-20s) are facing the very real prospect of our future kids and grandkids trying to grow up in the midst of the worst natural disastors in human history, not to mention the food shortages, coastal city flooding and lack of fresh water that will result if something is done very very soon.

[Northern Skies]

All this thing does is make the government bigger and the people poorer. Revenue neutral? Well how the heck do you pay all the lazy overpaid civil servants who are going to adminster this f*ckup?

[Dash-Ate]

Anyone who supports this tax grab that will hurt this industry has got to go!!

[ottawa,kan]

You know Alctel, you probably waste way way more energy surfing the internet and texting all your @#$@@ friends every time somebodies Facebook gets updated with a new picture of themselves. Transport TOTAL is only # 3 in energy use, and aviation is only a small piece of that. I don't mind the kiddies being all concerned about the environment, but the young people demand far far more energy to run their 20-something lives than mine did. Turn off the AC ( house and car) get rid of your cell phone, quit all web surfing ( especially hi-speed)turn off your computer, go back to a B&W TV and then we'll talk about revenue neutral carbon taxes.

[small penguin]

Well, can you suggest a better way of inhibiting demand?

Someday, when the industry wakes the @#$! up and produces viable products that arent dependent on fossil fuels..

Im sure almost all GA pilots would . their 100LL engines in favour of an alternative that doesnt require fossil fuel. Problem is, engine manufacturers dont have much incentive in designing such products yet. Why should they spend millions in R&D when they can simply just make a gas engine and let the consumer suffer the consequences.

When the only vehicles coming off the assembly line for the general population use gasoline, you cant exactly blame the consumer for pollution and excessive dependence on fuel. When they start giving us viable alternatives... Sure, tax the guys that would rather use fossil fuels.

Until then, Im sorry, no matter how high the price gets hiked, Im not going to stop or slow down flying. Its what I love to do, and I'll do it whatever the price.

And actually, to prove my point, I'd like anyone here to show me a reasonably priced alternative engine for any GA aircraft. I doubt any exists yet. But... Could be wrong.

Until alternatives are produced, consumers have no choice to use what the manufacturers provide.

[BoostedNihilist]

Are you kidding? Since the gas prices have gone up, people have been driving a lot less - see http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/18/driving.cutbacks/ for one example. Translinks statistics from Vancouver also back this up as well.

Open your eyes man, the world extends beyond the borders of north america. I, nor anybody I know, drives less. Driving for me is a neccessity like air.

Also, those statistics are skewed to prove their point. The price of everything has gone up (property etc.) so to say it is solely the price of gas is limited in mindset to say the least.

Ok, now I think you are simply trolling - there is a vast, VAST amount of evidence out there that humans have changed the planets climate very quickly in the last couple of hundred years through a number of ways, not least is the release of carbon into the atmosphere. A couple of hours research would show you this.

I don't personally have access to a fjord.

Sometimes a coincidence is just that. Wasn't there a BBC article recently that got quashed that showed data the earths temperature has been down since 1998? Anyways, even a couple hundred years is statistically insignificant since the earth has been around for millions of years.

Besides, people get payed to dig this information up. There is a huge profit motive on both sides of this issue so the debate is tainted. I don't trust any of them personally so for me to buy into this load with close to religious zeal is a bit out there.

to add, boiling down a couple hundred years of ecological evolution into a couple hours of research is not only impossible but not scientifically acceptable (to my standards) Short of just reading a few articles with references and parroting out some results I don't think I could come to a true conclusion in a few short hours.. is this what you have done?

The evidence is almost insurmountable, and is only challenged by a few groups of right wing think tanks who use surveys and experiments paid for by oil companies

Hello mcfly? People are being paid to research climate change no? So how can you claim a profit motive on one side and not the other?

(most of the time these are the same nut-cases who fund the 'creationism' theories in American schools and make them take evolution out of the classroom)

umm... this is an ignorant generalization... now who's trolling?

I'm still not convinced 'global warming' is caused by emissions anyways. It's all a hoax[/quote]

I am in no way a hippie, and I don't know how old you are, but people my age (mid-20s) are facing the very real prospect of our future kids and grandkids trying to grow up in the midst of the worst natural disastors in human history, not to mention the food shortages, coastal city flooding and lack of fresh water that will result if something is done very very soon.

And this is the problem. You have bought into the fear man. Your statement is a contradiction in terms. How can you have a 'natural' human caused disaster?

You nailed the real problem and you didn't even know it. The problem is too many people. What you going to do about that? People need this shit to survive plain and simple. Personally, I like it because it makes my life easier and I can afford it... but the demand will continue to increase with the population. Unless you find a silver bullet solution to this problem the explosive growth of the human population will get us long before global warming.. so I say @#$! it. I want to enjoy what I can while I can. Call me selfish but screw this tax and screw the bleeding heart liberals who support this whole stupid joke we call global warming.

BTW: Im 28

[v6g]

If you are suggesting that increasing the cost will decrease the demand you are smoking some seriously hq stuff.

Erm ... oh never mind.

Have a nice evening.

[Grantmac]

If you are suggesting that increasing the cost will decrease the demand you are smoking some seriously hq stuff. Obviously, increasing the price will not curb demand it hasn't worked yet, I doubt it will work in the future.

Are you kidding? Since the gas prices have gone up, people have been driving a lot less - see http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/18/driving.cutbacks/ for one example. Translinks statistics from Vancouver also back this up as well.

I know how to inhibit demand. All of those who give a shit about global warming (I.E. hippies) can simply stop driving or using any system which utilizes petroleum products. That way my gas will get cheaper, and I can drive more.

I'm still not convinced 'global warming' is caused by emissions anyways. It's all a hoax

Ok, now I think you are simply trolling - there is a vast, VAST amount of evidence out there that humans have changed the planets climate very quickly in the last couple of hundred years through a number of ways, not least is the release of carbon into the atmosphere. A couple of hours research would show you this.

The evidence is almost insurmountable, and is only challenged by a few groups of right wing think tanks who use surveys and experiments paid for by oil companies (most of the time these are the same nut-cases who fund the 'creationism' theories in American schools and make them take evolution out of the classroom). Half the time they misquote scientists without their knowledge and use their names without their permission, and have to be challenged in court to take it off.

I am in no way a hippie, and I don't know how old you are, but people my age (mid-20s) are facing the very real prospect of our future kids and grandkids trying to grow up in the midst of the worst natural disastors in human history, not to mention the food shortages, coastal city flooding and lack of fresh water that will result if something is done very very soon.

You need to stop feeding off of the crap that comes out of Al Gore's mouth. I seriously recommend you google "the inconvenient lie" and have youself a little read-up on what CO2 is all about. It's plain and simple a way of controlling our lives. The UN is creating a way to justify rationing energy.
As to us having the cheapest fuel in the world. Take a look at South America. The Argentinian government refuses to sell it's own people THEIR natural resources at inflated world levels and instead prices them fairly domestically. They also refuse to allow outside interests to drill, and for this they are branded as a "Brutal Dictatorship" by the States. I have been there, it's nothing of the sort.

The current fuel prices are based upon speculation that there is a shortage. The reported shortage is based upon information given out by those who market oil.

For the record, I'm 24. I drive a diesel vehicle that gets 55MPG and I help produce bio-diesel from waste vegtable oil. I do not consider myself an enviromentalist.

If you want to get pissed-off about an environmental issue then go for ones that actually matter:
1) Whaling, it's still happening.
2) Bulldosing rainforests to grow crops to make Ethanol (worst fuel ever, BTW)
3) Dumping raw sewage

In short, get your information about world issues from the people who do the research. Not a failed politician who has found himself a new sandbox by creating an environmental disaster.
Cheers,
Grant

[Four1oh]

anyone so worried about the environment should do their part and hold their breaths for oh, about an hour or so... that should make an impact. The rest of us living in the real world will continue to survive. I love how the hippies aren't using electricity, but are burning wood for heat and cooking in their wood stoves... Hippy-crites...