Kinda quiet in here...
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Kinda quiet in here...
...you could almost hear a (cheque book) 'pen' drop.
i am birddog
Flew as birddog once, interesting but not very challenging.A/C didn't come with jet engines efis insruments or ant of the lovely girls we at jetsgo have to suffer. Sorry I am Birdshaft you excrement doesn't wash with me.
A Fokker
A Fokker
Flew as birddog once, interesting but not very challenging.A/C didn't come with jet engines efis insruments or ant of the lovely girls we at jetsgo have to suffer. Sorry I am Birdshaft you excrement doesn't wash with me.
A Fokker
Birddog thinks to himself-
"so...there are fish in this scum-pond....I'm getting a bigger lure"
I found this green smilie similar to your logo...it's appropriate that he seems to be savouring his chew...like most of you JetsGo pilots...I am willing to bet 30K this smilie likes to swallow as well.
Art mimics life.
Birddog...why I would even bother to post in your general direction considering your mental and emotional maturity is beyond me but...here goes nothin'.
Have you lost track of how prevalent training bonds have become in our industry? Oh, is it not that common in Dryden? Guess not. Nor is it common on the type of equip. flown by Bird Dogs. Not when the equipment is one step up from an instructing job on a C150 eh?
What about all of the other airlines out there bonding their pilots? I can think of MANY. What is it about Jetsgo that is so special to you? Did your mother cuddle you too much when you were growing up? Or perhaps not enough?
You really do need to take some deep breaths and find a hobby away from the computer!
I've met your type and I'll take the Jetsgo lot over you any time. In fact, I know a lot of them to be top shelf fellas. Get over it.
Have you lost track of how prevalent training bonds have become in our industry? Oh, is it not that common in Dryden? Guess not. Nor is it common on the type of equip. flown by Bird Dogs. Not when the equipment is one step up from an instructing job on a C150 eh?
What about all of the other airlines out there bonding their pilots? I can think of MANY. What is it about Jetsgo that is so special to you? Did your mother cuddle you too much when you were growing up? Or perhaps not enough?
You really do need to take some deep breaths and find a hobby away from the computer!
I've met your type and I'll take the Jetsgo lot over you any time. In fact, I know a lot of them to be top shelf fellas. Get over it.
Because you're weak minded. As are your decisions to pollute this industry for every kid behind you one day wanting to become a 'professional pilot' and make a good living at it. You hold no fundamental values of what is decent and right.disco wrote: Birddog...why I would even bother to post in your general direction considering your mental and emotional maturity is beyond me...
If the industry followed the manner in which we conduct business and the manner in which we treat our pilots and engineers...there would be no need for 30K bonds or as I like to call them 'personal loans to Leblanc'.disco wrote: Have you lost track of how prevalent training bonds have become in our industry? Oh, is it not that common in Dryden? Guess not. Nor is it common on the type of equip. flown by Bird Dogs. Not when the equipment is one step up from an instructing job on a C150 eh?
I never instructed...but gathering from the kids that go through these doors (AND many have gone to Air Canada. This company was founded in 1949 so there are still old wings @ AC that have worked for us in the past) I must say that it (instructing) is one of the hardest jobs in aviation. But by you belittling them in the manner that you are...only enforces that you...like others under the Jets Go logo have forgotten your roots, and have disrespected EVERYONE in this industry…you just seem too cowardly to pick on a more prolific group. A typical reaction from an insecure person...congratulations...you are right on schedule (for a change) with your predictable reactions. Pity, I expected a better representative from your camp.
I’ve been through the airlines long enough to know that history repeats itself. I lost 14 friends to a crash...it's more appropriate that I say they were murdered. The manner in which Leblanc conducts business is mirrored to a former company that I worked for in the past. You folks are too ignorant to understand that I am here to help you folks…I cannot go further on this topic but I will say I hope every flight is a safe one for JetsGo’s passengers and its crews. I really do mean that.disco wrote: What about all of the other airlines out there bonding their pilots? I can think of MANY. What is it about Jetsgo that is so special to you? Did your mother cuddle you too much when you were growing up? Or perhaps not enough?
As far as being cuddled by my mom…was that supposed to be a jab? An attempt at hurting my feelings? I guess I missed the joke.
I am glad you enjoy reading my posts. The funny thing is the internet is a very profitable source of income for me when I am not working during the winters. It paid for this Penthouse in the YYZ area where I am writing from, and the Range Rover I drive. The occasional trip to Brazil and in a few weeks to Europe for a while...the nice thing about by business is that I can run it from anywhere in the world that has access to the internet. But thanks for your concern on my health and getting away from this screen. I think cuddles from my mommy may help.disco wrote: You really do need to take some deep breaths and find a hobby away from the computer!
I would expect you will need your top shelf fellers when you cannot find another job because you have JetsGo stamped all over your resume.disco wrote:
I've met your type and I'll take the Jetsgo lot over you any time. In fact, I know a lot of them to be top shelf fellas. Get over it.
fly safe
Last edited by ... on Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
There is a significant difference between what Jetsgo is doing and the 'bonding' by other airlines: Jetsgo requires cash up front, others ask for an agreement to repay some/all training costs if you leave before a set time.disco wrote:...
Have you lost track of how prevalent training bonds have become in our industry? ...
What about all of the other airlines out there bonding their pilots? I can think of MANY. What is it about Jetsgo that is so special to you? ...
Bearskin is not a 705 airline... JetsGo is and no large national airline should ever ask it's employees to to pay for a job at that level.disco wrote:Incorrect RB211.
Many get the money up front. Bearskin for example. Again, what about Jetsgo has become so special?
If it's to secure the pilot and keep him from leaving for a few years... where is he going to go with a MD-83 or F-100 type besides overseas?
Would you be ok with Air Canada and WestJet asking for a $30K bond too?
Further....Schlem wrote:Bearskin is not a 705 airline... JetsGo is and no large national airline should ever ask it's employees to to pay for a job at that level.disco wrote: Incorrect RB211.
Many get the money up front. Bearskin for example. Again, what about Jetsgo has become so special?
If it's to secure the pilot and keep him from leaving for a few years... where is he going to go with a MD-83 or F-100 type besides overseas?
Would you be ok with Air Canada and WestJet asking for a $30K bond too?
Training your staff to operate the aircraft the company has (in a high profile 705 scheduled airline operating from major airports in Canada & the US) is the price of doing buisiness for any company. What other industry does an employee have to pay to work?
Why is this so phucking hard to understand?
I think I just about got it ALL covered...I love it when you people run and hide when you have no argument...so in your own words only juveniles run.disco wrote:Bird Dog: not interested man. You know nothing of my mind and your threads are juvenile at best.
I enjoy watching Bush, but I was especially partial to the penguin.
You seem to have a personal hatred for ML & Jetsgo, not that it needs further convincing for me. I think when those that look back on their career, will possibly forget that they worked for Jetsgo. A stepping stone at best, and sadly a magnet that drags down the benefits and pay for the industry. That green smile thing makes me ill. ML is a crook.
You seem to have a personal hatred for ML & Jetsgo, not that it needs further convincing for me. I think when those that look back on their career, will possibly forget that they worked for Jetsgo. A stepping stone at best, and sadly a magnet that drags down the benefits and pay for the industry. That green smile thing makes me ill. ML is a crook.
When the discussion was about Jetsgo (705 ops) I assumed you were referring to other similar airlines. I didn't consider commuters as I have very little knowledge of them. My mistake.disco wrote:Incorrect RB211.
Many get the money up front. Bearskin for example. Again, what about Jetsgo has become so special?
...
Jetsgo is bothersome (as are any others you care to mention; Bearskin and... ?) because it is a sleazy ploy to take advantage of those that are out of work and those that, mistakenly, feel they must do 'whatever it takes' to get ahead. IMHO
Also, as I have mentioned in previous threads, it has potential safety implications because the airline is artificially limiting the pool of hireable candidates. Any airline/company worth its salt would want to hire the best available people for a given job.
-
Rubberbiscuit
- Rank 8
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:02 pm
Birddog! You need to cheer up and start looking at the bright side!
It sounds like you would not work for M.L. regardless, so why so upset
about the bond? Remember. For every Pilot hired at Jestgo there is one less resume crowding the desks of other airlines. Paying the bond is a personal choice, nobody is forced.
As for ethics and such! There is none in the airline industry. Period! It is a dog eat dog world. If you were to go looking for a "honest" airline CEO, you better pack a big lunch cause you might be a while. They are all salesmen good at telling you what you want to hear, not unlike the dude on the picture beside all your posts.
If Jetsgo is nothing but an opportunity for fast advancement with a $30000 price tag, why is there dosens of A/C, Jazz and other airline pilots working there?
Bottom line! It's all work.... a means to a paycheck. If you met the guys that fly there you would probably not change your attitude towards the company. But you would see that we are a regulare bunch of guys like yourself with families and responsibilities doing what it takes to feed the kids and pay the mortgage in an industry where most small fortunes are made by starting out with a large one. And for all of you starting out. If you are not a sucker for punishment, avoid aviation at all cost!
As for myself, family comes first. Where the paycheck comes from is secondary! Again it's just a job!
It sounds like you would not work for M.L. regardless, so why so upset
about the bond? Remember. For every Pilot hired at Jestgo there is one less resume crowding the desks of other airlines. Paying the bond is a personal choice, nobody is forced.
As for ethics and such! There is none in the airline industry. Period! It is a dog eat dog world. If you were to go looking for a "honest" airline CEO, you better pack a big lunch cause you might be a while. They are all salesmen good at telling you what you want to hear, not unlike the dude on the picture beside all your posts.
If Jetsgo is nothing but an opportunity for fast advancement with a $30000 price tag, why is there dosens of A/C, Jazz and other airline pilots working there?
Bottom line! It's all work.... a means to a paycheck. If you met the guys that fly there you would probably not change your attitude towards the company. But you would see that we are a regulare bunch of guys like yourself with families and responsibilities doing what it takes to feed the kids and pay the mortgage in an industry where most small fortunes are made by starting out with a large one. And for all of you starting out. If you are not a sucker for punishment, avoid aviation at all cost!
As for myself, family comes first. Where the paycheck comes from is secondary! Again it's just a job!
Thank you all for posting your thoughts.
It should not be just a job...family comes first for most people even more so when they are more established later on in their careers. However if we as a collective group don't know when to put our foot down...your family life will eventually deteriorate and we become slaves to outlandish working conditions and demands that will eventually reach into your homes, and strain the foundation of family life we all seem to cherish.
I don't give a rattle snake shake what other countries are doing. HOWEVER!!!!! There is no respect for the employer anymore and thus no respect for us as professionals in return. Finish your agreement/contract then go else where, if you wish.
The handshake gentlemen’s agreement is a lost art. Then came along the cute phrase “good paper makes good friends”. Now we have toileted our profession to this latest tactic derived by this snake in the grass.
The feeling I get from these young professionals is that it does not seem to matter to them. They will eventually get on to bigger and better and JetsGo will be just a memory. I find that to be a very destructive path many seem to be taking here, not for themselves…FOR EVERYONE PROFESSIONAL IN THIS INDUSTRY.
I am all for a competitive environment. However, diluting the industry in this present manner will eventually catch up to us. The responsibility we owe to those professionals that have paved the way for us, inspired us to become aviation professionals, and to those that will follow us in the future, are greater than our need to sell out just to get onto the "big iron" in such an unorthodox manner.
ARE WE NOT TIRED OF PAYING THROUGHOUT OUR INITIAL PART OF OUR CAREERS??
WHEN IS IT GOING TO BE ENOUGH?? PERHAPS WHEN YOU FIND YOURSELF CONSOLING THE FAMILIES OF YOUR FALLEN CO-WORKERS BECAUSE THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR FLY’S ON THE CHEAP??
This goes beyond personal choice to pay to work…it involves all of us. I understand it’s even harder to make that type of choice when you have children to clothe and feed. No one wants to fork over 30K, no one does. But someone has to start the revolt against any other company that WILL come along when JetsGo DOES go under…for the sake of our profession, company financial health and safety of the traveling public.
"first the Germans came for the Jews...I did nothing...then they came for the Polish...still I did nothing...then they came for me...and there was no one else left to fight."
-Anonymous
Let’s take back our industry. We are not just dumb ‘bus drivers’ or ‘wrenchers’ or ‘biscuit chuckers’, we are the back bone of a longstanding honorary club that is worth defending. We are professionals.
Fly safe
It should not be just a job...family comes first for most people even more so when they are more established later on in their careers. However if we as a collective group don't know when to put our foot down...your family life will eventually deteriorate and we become slaves to outlandish working conditions and demands that will eventually reach into your homes, and strain the foundation of family life we all seem to cherish.
I don't give a rattle snake shake what other countries are doing. HOWEVER!!!!! There is no respect for the employer anymore and thus no respect for us as professionals in return. Finish your agreement/contract then go else where, if you wish.
The handshake gentlemen’s agreement is a lost art. Then came along the cute phrase “good paper makes good friends”. Now we have toileted our profession to this latest tactic derived by this snake in the grass.
The feeling I get from these young professionals is that it does not seem to matter to them. They will eventually get on to bigger and better and JetsGo will be just a memory. I find that to be a very destructive path many seem to be taking here, not for themselves…FOR EVERYONE PROFESSIONAL IN THIS INDUSTRY.
I am all for a competitive environment. However, diluting the industry in this present manner will eventually catch up to us. The responsibility we owe to those professionals that have paved the way for us, inspired us to become aviation professionals, and to those that will follow us in the future, are greater than our need to sell out just to get onto the "big iron" in such an unorthodox manner.
ARE WE NOT TIRED OF PAYING THROUGHOUT OUR INITIAL PART OF OUR CAREERS??
WHEN IS IT GOING TO BE ENOUGH?? PERHAPS WHEN YOU FIND YOURSELF CONSOLING THE FAMILIES OF YOUR FALLEN CO-WORKERS BECAUSE THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR FLY’S ON THE CHEAP??
This goes beyond personal choice to pay to work…it involves all of us. I understand it’s even harder to make that type of choice when you have children to clothe and feed. No one wants to fork over 30K, no one does. But someone has to start the revolt against any other company that WILL come along when JetsGo DOES go under…for the sake of our profession, company financial health and safety of the traveling public.
"first the Germans came for the Jews...I did nothing...then they came for the Polish...still I did nothing...then they came for me...and there was no one else left to fight."
-Anonymous
Let’s take back our industry. We are not just dumb ‘bus drivers’ or ‘wrenchers’ or ‘biscuit chuckers’, we are the back bone of a longstanding honorary club that is worth defending. We are professionals.
Fly safe
YEAH, "Let's take back our country"
Hurray....with BirdDog at the helm, we will all be ok. I can almost here the anthem playing.
You have created an imaginary moral code that you want everyone else to buy into. Get over yourself. (btw, most people aren't the least bit interested in your dim-witted bragging about your penthouse and luxurious travels - all of the affluent people I know don't waste their time trying to prove it to everyone else - save it)
Wasn't paying the money we all did to become Commercial Pilots extortion? No? That was ok? Dontcha think we should all band together and get that lowered to something more reasonable? What are we - whores? Paying to become qualified pilots? No way man. Let your first prospective employer cover that. They are the ones who will be profitting from YOUR investment in YOUR licences and ratings. Buy your own instructor rating? Shiver...we should all stand together on that. Cops don't pay for their training...
Or buying your own float rating? God no - man, the employer shoulda covered that. Hmm, we should all get Bird Dog's help whenever an employer wants to pay us substandard wages in our entry level dock hand/float job. We should all band together on that too (roll anthem). Oh yeah, and no more working every day of the summer (in contravention of the CARS and the Labour Code). If you do it this summer man, everyone else in summers to follow will have to -dear God...what to do...call Bird Dog...
Band together boys! Take back our industry and self-respect. No more paying for any of your training. The good book of Bird Dog says its a no no.
Oh, and down with Bearsin and Thunder and Georgian and Voyageur and the whole lot of them. Or wait, someone said it really doesn't matter unless its 705? Is that where we draw the line? I can't remember...Oh great Bird Dog, please guide us? Is it ok at 703 and 704 or? I can't remember how we are supposed to be employing your moral rule set. It's very tricky.
Please guide us so that we don't destroy ourselves. Oh, and tell those Westjet guys to get paid more when the profit sharing checks go lean...they are dragging us all down. Oh, and great Bird Dog, please call the pilots at Air Canada and Jazz and everyone else and get them to take back those sinful concessions 'cause its really dragging down the rest of us.
Oh yeah, and NEVER leave those great employers mid-season. Show your loyalty man. Even if they fired your pal cause he bent a float or laid another one off because they hired too many.
Bird Dog, could you please publish something so that all of us unwashed could have a guide through all of this?
Hurray....with BirdDog at the helm, we will all be ok. I can almost here the anthem playing.
You have created an imaginary moral code that you want everyone else to buy into. Get over yourself. (btw, most people aren't the least bit interested in your dim-witted bragging about your penthouse and luxurious travels - all of the affluent people I know don't waste their time trying to prove it to everyone else - save it)
Wasn't paying the money we all did to become Commercial Pilots extortion? No? That was ok? Dontcha think we should all band together and get that lowered to something more reasonable? What are we - whores? Paying to become qualified pilots? No way man. Let your first prospective employer cover that. They are the ones who will be profitting from YOUR investment in YOUR licences and ratings. Buy your own instructor rating? Shiver...we should all stand together on that. Cops don't pay for their training...
Or buying your own float rating? God no - man, the employer shoulda covered that. Hmm, we should all get Bird Dog's help whenever an employer wants to pay us substandard wages in our entry level dock hand/float job. We should all band together on that too (roll anthem). Oh yeah, and no more working every day of the summer (in contravention of the CARS and the Labour Code). If you do it this summer man, everyone else in summers to follow will have to -dear God...what to do...call Bird Dog...
Band together boys! Take back our industry and self-respect. No more paying for any of your training. The good book of Bird Dog says its a no no.
Oh, and down with Bearsin and Thunder and Georgian and Voyageur and the whole lot of them. Or wait, someone said it really doesn't matter unless its 705? Is that where we draw the line? I can't remember...Oh great Bird Dog, please guide us? Is it ok at 703 and 704 or? I can't remember how we are supposed to be employing your moral rule set. It's very tricky.
Please guide us so that we don't destroy ourselves. Oh, and tell those Westjet guys to get paid more when the profit sharing checks go lean...they are dragging us all down. Oh, and great Bird Dog, please call the pilots at Air Canada and Jazz and everyone else and get them to take back those sinful concessions 'cause its really dragging down the rest of us.
Oh yeah, and NEVER leave those great employers mid-season. Show your loyalty man. Even if they fired your pal cause he bent a float or laid another one off because they hired too many.
Bird Dog, could you please publish something so that all of us unwashed could have a guide through all of this?
Disco: The line has to be drawn somewhere don't you think? Where everyone draws their own line is clearly different. Some think it's fine to buy a PPC at regency and fly for free. Some say buying a PPC is a disgrace but paying a training bond is fine. Some say that a bond isn't okay either.
From my slightly less biased perspective: I think more people have a problem that jetsgo wants the cash up front, than that they want the bond. If the bond was a written contract stating that if you left short if two years you owe jetsgo a prorated amount of the 30K then there would be a lot less resistance. It would accomplish the exact same thing and no one could call it a money grab.
From my slightly less biased perspective: I think more people have a problem that jetsgo wants the cash up front, than that they want the bond. If the bond was a written contract stating that if you left short if two years you owe jetsgo a prorated amount of the 30K then there would be a lot less resistance. It would accomplish the exact same thing and no one could call it a money grab.
disco wrote:...Wasn't paying the money we all did to become Commercial Pilots extortion? No? That was ok? Dontcha think we should all band together and get that lowered to something more reasonable? What are we - whores? Paying to become qualified pilots? No way man. ...
Oh, and down with Bearsin and Thunder and Georgian and Voyageur and the whole lot of them. Or wait, someone said it really doesn't matter unless its 705? Is that where we draw the line? I can't remember...Oh great Bird Dog, please guide us? Is it ok at 703 and 704 or? I can't remember how we are supposed to be employing your moral rule set. It's very tricky.
...
So disco, where do you draw the line? Paying for the endorsement/job is apparently OK with you. How about working for free? Or paying for time on the line to get that experience? Busting regs to keep the job? Where is it for you?
Sadly, ever since my earliest days in this industry the same arguments have been ongoing. Unfortunately too many feel they must do whatever it takes to get ahead. Even if it means compromising their own principle/moral guidelines.
-
Rubberbiscuit
- Rank 8
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:02 pm
"just a job". That's right! What I mean is (bond discussion aside) I go to work with the same attitude regardless of the colors on the outside of the aircraft. To be proffessional, do the best job that I can and treat my my fellow co-workers and our customers with the same respect I would expect and demand. We are all proffessional Pilots, aren't we? Doing this for the same reason! I have very close and longtime friends at A/C, WJ and every other branch of the aviation Industry in Canada. So WHY are we so damned concerned with who the next guy works for? I know that all my good friends are doing this for the same reason as me. And we are no less friends now than 12 years ago when we first hopped on this rollercoaster called aviation.
So it is unfortunate that the $30000 will close the door to those that are not willing to pay it or cannot come up with the funds or do not agree with the principal. It is also unfortunate that Canjet is unlikely to consider you unless you have an eastcoast adress or a 737 type rating. Just like it is to bad your chances of getting a Westjet interview without a tour and some strong internal references are slim. The sad fact is that there are truly proffessional Pilots out there to whom all these doors are closed for one reason or another.
And in terms of pay it is no worse than anywhere else. First year F/O is $46.600 and Captain start at Approx. $67.000. Are you going to get rich? No, but where are you. Certainly nowhere in Canada.
Well, all I now is that I will allways go twork with my chin up and a proffessional attitude regardless of the livery on the A/C.
And as for Birddog hoping and praying that Jetsgo is going out of business! I have a hard time understanding where wishing harm upon your fellow pilots fits in to the profile of a man with such high standards when it comes to morale and ethics.
So it is unfortunate that the $30000 will close the door to those that are not willing to pay it or cannot come up with the funds or do not agree with the principal. It is also unfortunate that Canjet is unlikely to consider you unless you have an eastcoast adress or a 737 type rating. Just like it is to bad your chances of getting a Westjet interview without a tour and some strong internal references are slim. The sad fact is that there are truly proffessional Pilots out there to whom all these doors are closed for one reason or another.
And in terms of pay it is no worse than anywhere else. First year F/O is $46.600 and Captain start at Approx. $67.000. Are you going to get rich? No, but where are you. Certainly nowhere in Canada.
Well, all I now is that I will allways go twork with my chin up and a proffessional attitude regardless of the livery on the A/C.
And as for Birddog hoping and praying that Jetsgo is going out of business! I have a hard time understanding where wishing harm upon your fellow pilots fits in to the profile of a man with such high standards when it comes to morale and ethics.
You went looking for me BD? I am touched.
"I’ve been through the airlines long enough to know that history repeats itself. I lost 14 friends to a crash...it's more appropriate that I say they were murdered. The manner in which Leblanc conducts business is mirrored to a former company that I worked for in the past. You folks are too ignorant to understand that I am here to help you folks…I cannot go further on this topic but I will say I hope every flight is a safe one for JetsGo’s passengers and its crews. I really do mean that."
So now we are mechanically unsafe? We fly from point to point without replacing tires that need replacing? Our Mechanics falsify logbook entries?
WHY DON"T YOU BACK UP ONE THING YOU TYPE? Let me guess, your going to post some more pictures, your going to use the word “prolific” a couple of more times, your going to tell us that you are really sad, your going to tell us this is for our own good? Thanks BD but you are one of, if not the last person I would want looking out for me. You continually make statements like the one above but don’t have the knowledge or understanding to articulate a defense. What happened to the DC-8 crew was horrible and should have never happened, but there is no parallel to JetsGo.
So how far into your career BD are you willing to pay? If it is the cost of doing business, then don’t you think all companies should hire candidates and teach them to fly? Would this not be better for both the company and the individual? Or is it just ok to pay for your initial training? Is it ok to have training bonds? How far into your career should you expect training bonds? Personally I have never screwed a company. I have never run off with the ink still wet on a PPC. I am literally paying for those that have. Have you EVER heard me wine about it? I don’t like it but I have the brain power to see other sides of the issue.
PS BD I asked you a few months back why I am at JG..and you couldn’t answer it. RB answered it without much of a dilemma.
"I’ve been through the airlines long enough to know that history repeats itself. I lost 14 friends to a crash...it's more appropriate that I say they were murdered. The manner in which Leblanc conducts business is mirrored to a former company that I worked for in the past. You folks are too ignorant to understand that I am here to help you folks…I cannot go further on this topic but I will say I hope every flight is a safe one for JetsGo’s passengers and its crews. I really do mean that."
So now we are mechanically unsafe? We fly from point to point without replacing tires that need replacing? Our Mechanics falsify logbook entries?
WHY DON"T YOU BACK UP ONE THING YOU TYPE? Let me guess, your going to post some more pictures, your going to use the word “prolific” a couple of more times, your going to tell us that you are really sad, your going to tell us this is for our own good? Thanks BD but you are one of, if not the last person I would want looking out for me. You continually make statements like the one above but don’t have the knowledge or understanding to articulate a defense. What happened to the DC-8 crew was horrible and should have never happened, but there is no parallel to JetsGo.
So how far into your career BD are you willing to pay? If it is the cost of doing business, then don’t you think all companies should hire candidates and teach them to fly? Would this not be better for both the company and the individual? Or is it just ok to pay for your initial training? Is it ok to have training bonds? How far into your career should you expect training bonds? Personally I have never screwed a company. I have never run off with the ink still wet on a PPC. I am literally paying for those that have. Have you EVER heard me wine about it? I don’t like it but I have the brain power to see other sides of the issue.
PS BD I asked you a few months back why I am at JG..and you couldn’t answer it. RB answered it without much of a dilemma.
Every job, in every profession, have barriers that make employment unlikely for some. The difference, for me, between JG and the other examples you cite is the absolute nature of $30k up front.Rubberbiscuit wrote:...
So it is unfortunate that the $30000 will close the door to those that are not willing to pay it or cannot come up with the funds or do not agree with the principal. It is also unfortunate that Canjet is unlikely to consider you unless you have an eastcoast adress or a 737 type rating. Just like it is to bad your chances of getting a Westjet interview without a tour and some strong internal references are slim. The sad fact is that there are truly proffessional Pilots out there to whom all these doors are closed for one reason or another.
...
The selection criteria at Canjet, WJ etc can be easily adjusted at any time if the quality of applicants are no longer suitable or to hire an exceptional candidate. It means one can apply and still be considered, even if it is an outside chance. The JG model is a far more restrictive barrier. No matter how qualified one is, they will not be considered without the money required.
Should an airline not be looking to hire the best available candidate? Soft hiring criteria can always be changed/adjusted, whereas JG can't as easily make exceptions or change their rule. JG, therefore, artificially limits their pool of hireable candidates.
My problem is with the company doing this. I wish we as a group would be able to refuse to participate in such schemes. I also, however, understand the pressures faced by many in the last few years (I've been there) leading to acceptance of this scenario.
I am glad you will always bring a proffessional attitude to your job. I think that is a standard we can all agree on.
Cheers,
RB your points are valid, but you are missing a few things.
All the AC, Jazz and Transat guys would not have been touched if the 30G was not in place. Are these guys unqualified? The 30G closed the door for some but it also opened the door for some as well. I also think you are underestimating the amount of applicants and experience levels that we are still attracting for one reason or another.
I personally wish all companies would hire the best person for the job. Look at WJ, time requirement with internal references..most guys from the west...Air Canada..parents who work their or female. Look at ACE..young and inexperienced side saddle and no females. Canjet..minimum time and from the east...Zoom ex C3 preferred and no ex Royal guys. There are lots of restrictions out there besides the 30G.
All the AC, Jazz and Transat guys would not have been touched if the 30G was not in place. Are these guys unqualified? The 30G closed the door for some but it also opened the door for some as well. I also think you are underestimating the amount of applicants and experience levels that we are still attracting for one reason or another.
I personally wish all companies would hire the best person for the job. Look at WJ, time requirement with internal references..most guys from the west...Air Canada..parents who work their or female. Look at ACE..young and inexperienced side saddle and no females. Canjet..minimum time and from the east...Zoom ex C3 preferred and no ex Royal guys. There are lots of restrictions out there besides the 30G.
-
Rubberbiscuit
- Rank 8
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:02 pm
I work at JG, and I will be the first one to tell you RB211 that I hope they shed the bond. It would not bother me one iota that that I had to pay for it either and I know everyone I have discussed it with there feels the same way.
Pimper is right. We are paying for the fact that most Pilots keep chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I know guys who have accepted jobs, gone for expensive sim training just to quit the day after getting back, to go work for someone that pays a littlebit more or it's a little closer to home! Training costs can become a problem for any company experiencing high turnover. The $30.000 does not even cover the entire cost of training. It just ensures that if you quit early there is no skin off the companys back. And as long as there is a pot of gold out there somewhere you can rest assured pilots will be leaving!
Good luck!!
Pimper is right. We are paying for the fact that most Pilots keep chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I know guys who have accepted jobs, gone for expensive sim training just to quit the day after getting back, to go work for someone that pays a littlebit more or it's a little closer to home! Training costs can become a problem for any company experiencing high turnover. The $30.000 does not even cover the entire cost of training. It just ensures that if you quit early there is no skin off the companys back. And as long as there is a pot of gold out there somewhere you can rest assured pilots will be leaving!
Good luck!!
PIMPER!!!!! 
Where have you been!?
Hold on let me address your buddy's post here and I'll get back to you in a sec....I hope the holidays went well for you with friends and family....
However if you allow me to make an analogy comparing a human body to that of the aviation industry, I may make my point a little more clearer.
If we discovered an organ in the human body has cancer...we do all we can to destroy it before it spreads and infects the whole body....conversely, in the manner which the industry is getting sicker with this cancer ie: JetsGo...we must cure the illness early enough...or the cancer will infest and riddle the whole ‘body’ of Canadian aviation industry. My views at times are extreme...however the manner in which JetsGo conducts business is outlandish. Leblanc will continue to run his corporate agenda as long as there are people such as your selves that continue to support it.
Two extremes, however, somewhere in the middle I know there is a middle ground where everyone can win. However this will never happen with Mr. Leblanc and anything he associates himself with because you are helping to fuel the cancer.
I won’t be posting anything on here regarding specifics. Please, accept this invite.
Where have you been!? Hold on let me address your buddy's post here and I'll get back to you in a sec....I hope the holidays went well for you with friends and family....
I have stated before (prior to this site crashing) I am happy pilots are employed doing what they love to do. I do not wish harm or financial turmoil to anyone.Rubberbiscuit wrote: And as for Birddog hoping and praying that Jetsgo is going out of business! I have a hard time understanding where wishing harm upon your fellow pilots fits in to the profile of a man with such high standards when it comes to morale and ethics.
However if you allow me to make an analogy comparing a human body to that of the aviation industry, I may make my point a little more clearer.
If we discovered an organ in the human body has cancer...we do all we can to destroy it before it spreads and infects the whole body....conversely, in the manner which the industry is getting sicker with this cancer ie: JetsGo...we must cure the illness early enough...or the cancer will infest and riddle the whole ‘body’ of Canadian aviation industry. My views at times are extreme...however the manner in which JetsGo conducts business is outlandish. Leblanc will continue to run his corporate agenda as long as there are people such as your selves that continue to support it.
Two extremes, however, somewhere in the middle I know there is a middle ground where everyone can win. However this will never happen with Mr. Leblanc and anything he associates himself with because you are helping to fuel the cancer.
When one has had mud thrown into one eyes...it forces one to wipe it off, and see more clearly.tsgas wrote:
Rubberbiscuit you show a lot of class unlike some of the mud flingers that post.
Many of the same engineers that worked for that ‘other’ company...are working at yours now.pimper wrote:
So now we are mechanically unsafe? We fly from point to point without replacing tires that need replacing? Our Mechanics falsify logbook entries?
I applaud you for owning up to your word.pimper wrote: Personally I have never screwed a company. I have never run off with the ink still wet on a PPC. I am literally paying for those that have. Have you EVER heard me wine about it? I don’t like it but I have the brain power to see other sides of the issue.
Oh, but dear Pimper…I do…(biting my tongue) PM me for my email or phone number. If you are ever in YYZ over night where you and I can go for a beer…don’t worry…I’ll buy.pimper wrote: You continually make statements like the one above but don’t have the knowledge or understanding to articulate a defense
I won’t be posting anything on here regarding specifics. Please, accept this invite.
