CAMC, is it worth it?

[bombardierfixer]

So...What does CAMC do for ya? When I was a aprentile unit I purchased their log book which turned out to be not very good. So I havent really thought about it untill now, so I wanted to get a opinion on them before IO give them money.

[kilpicki]

They will make a licenced Engineer redundant. A shop will only need 1 signing guy and a rack of recognized trades people.

Not good.

[ourkid2000]

Explain,

The point of CAMC has never been clear to me. How does everyone figure they're so bad?

[iflyforpie]

I heard that they may eventually take away the testing and training admin function away from TC (just a rumor I heard). At larger shops people like interior techs and shop techs get 'certified' by CAMC which ensures they are up to a certain standard.

It certainly makes ground for going a step further. Having a ton of laborers with nothing other than OJT and a stamped logbook doing all the actual work while the poor licensed/endorsed guy sits at a desk with a ton of paperwork to sign off. Most licensed guys are overworked as it is chasing after apprenti.

[conehead]

I heard that they may eventually take away the testing and training admin function away from TC (just a rumor I heard).

This was done years ago. The Colleges do it.

[iflyforpie]

TC still admins the CARs exam and the logbook and experience requirements for AME licenses and issues them. This would fall to CAMC.

[ourkid2000]

Yes, the only thing colleges do is that they're allowed to give Transport Canada exams for their courses. This way when you graduate, you only have to write CARS and pass in your logbook.

Perhaps this has dumbed it down slightly, but not too much in my opinion. I've seen some of these exams and they're relevant but nothing difficult to pass. CARS was certainly harder than the Std practices exam! Seems like more of a money grab to me so I'm glad they're gone.

TC looked after my CARS exam, my logbook certification, and the checked my work history before giving me my license. I guess this is what Transport is looking to get rid of? If so, how can we stop it?

[kilpicki]

Are you a paid up member of your local AME association?

Get involved in the meetings and voice your concern.

[123dash]

CAMC is useless and worthless for licensed AME's. A make work project for an "old boys club"

[scouty-dog]

CAMC is useless and worthless for licensed AME's. A make work project for an "old boys club"

finally, someone came out and said it. A very small group of the old guard were trying to justify their existance.

BTW, those things they call logbooks for ame's, are not worth the paper they are printed on.

[iflyforpie]

You don't need to have a logbook. Just an organized list with all the required tasks for the type of aircraft you work on. You can get a copy of the list off of TCs website or your friendly neighborhood TC office and make your own.

[bombardierfixer]

Those CAMC books had the stupidist tasks in them though, of course I can't think of any off the top of my head, but the were really dumb! I went and got the TC sheets and used those untill the person who was taking in my log book insinuated that I had just changed the cover sheet and I was using someone elses sheets, but as luck would have it a inspector was walking by and told the person that she had to accept them because those were the official TC forms. I heard that TC is trying to get out of everything all together, strega may get his wish when they take away the AME title (purely speculation), and call us CAMC Techs or what ever.

[iflyforpie]

I think one was: ATA 25, Repair decorative trim. I think I got that signed off cargo taping a piece of gill liner back up!

Where's Kiss_My_Tcas? He usually has all kinds of nice things to say about CAMC!

[Pat Richard]

That's the biggest joke about the CAMC logbook, in the end it just comes down to appeasing the ridiculous tasks it demands, to get the license.
I can't recall all the times I've mentioned to an apprentice, after doing some involved task, to go get their logbook, so I can sign off the task, only to find no such task there. Better yet, then find some effing stupid task like Pie mentions. I think its a joke, and although I don't agree with Strega for the most part, I can see where he gets his fuel from.

Personally, Im to the point of not giving a shit about the title anymore, because we certainly don't command what other "engineers" make, so who are we fooling(except ourselves)by rabidly arguing for it?

MO MONEY, and call me what you want...


end rant

[ourkid2000]

I don't give a crap about the title either but I don't think anyone is demanding "engineer" money really......but the majority of us certainly feel under paid. 20 bucks an hour to be responsible for an airplane with 80 people on it is just ridiculous.

[bombardierfixer]

Ah hell I wasn't trying to start that title debate up again. I was just speculating that CAMC may change stuff if they get the reigns. Oh and the money thing, just appeal to my whore-like sensibilitys and I'm your man

[Pat Richard]

but the majority of us certainly feel under paid. 20 bucks an hour to be responsible for an airplane with 80 people on it is just ridiculous.

exactly, and its for that reason alone I want more than 20, hell, 30 something an hour.
I got an offer last week to go to bombardier for $30 a/hr, 63 a day perd. No accomadation, no transport there/to/from work, and I have an endorsement on type(s). Fuking ridiculous.

Dude was offended when I started laughing....

[bombardierfixer]

Was it Chapco or Aerotek?

[Pat Richard]

aerotek

[Ballsssssss]

I don't really see our AME licenses being washed out to allow some silly organization like CAMC to issue us tech certs... Our AME licenses meet the ICAO licensing standards and thus groups our license with those of most other western countries (except the US, whose licensing system is widely criticized). CAMC is for labourers who feel they need a piece of paper telling them that they are more than just another cog in the wheel.

[qa guy]

I think that is fair. If a guy spends 20 yrs. welding aircraft engine mounts.....he is entiltled to a certificate stating his qualifications. We as AME's should not be intimidated by this. We are the inspectors, and are ones needed to certify the installations.

[bombardierfixer]

A: If Aerotek would stop trying to take half of the pie they would cut down on the laughter. CAS has/had the same contract.

B: Dosnt a SCA cover the stuff CAMC is trying to do anyway? Especially with the component and welding type stuff? Seem's kinda redundant too me, but I guess if the AMO you work for dosn't have that in the GPM/MPM you can't do it.

C: ICAO yes but we need to get EASA parity. It's gonna happen I think just cause the pool of experiance is turning into a puddle. When Field west shuts down and YYC is looking for connies all over the place kinda makes you wonder. Hell Austrailia has realized that a CDN AME is just as good as a AUS LAME.

[iflyforpie]

Heck, I thought $35/hr was not good enough. What ever happened to $39/hr a few years ago for contract when things were a lot cheaper?

[Pat Richard]

Heck, I thought $35/hr was not good enough. What ever happened to $39/hr a few years ago for contract when things were a lot cheaper?

EXACTLY.

It was even higher around 2000, in the low 40's an hour, and sheet metal was 50 ish.

Progress?

Also remember, that we just experienced the an upswing/demand for AME's that no one has apparently ever seen before. The current state of wages does'nt seem to support that, and if you factor in cost of living now, we've probably never been worse.
Just wait when things really start to slow down, and companies start to to "lowball".

Second job, here i come.....

[qa guy]

[

B: Dosnt a SCA cover the stuff CAMC is trying to do anyway? Especially with the component and welding type stuff? Seem's kinda redundant too me, but I guess if the AMO you work for dosn't have that in the GPM/MPM you can't do it.

Someone cant take SCA with them to another employer. So there really isnt any type of certification.