IFR Renewal or Initial

[PropSpinner]

I'm hoping to get some accurate information from everyone here!

I need to find out the best path to take to get my Multi-Instrument Rating back.

I did hold a multi-ifr which expired 3 1/2 years ago. Due to the fact that I did go over two years past the expiry date, I had the understanding that I had to complete the INRAT, which I have successfully done.

Now I need to do the flight training and the flight test, and I am getting different stories.

I am being told by some that it is a complete INITIAL.

By others, I am being told that although I have past the 2 years after the expiry date, the flight test can be conducted as a renewal due to the fact that I have held an instrument rating at some point in time.

If it is considered a renewal, I have the ability to complete the training and flight test on a certified simulator, thus reducing my costs.

Can anyone clarify the correct information and the ACCURATE course of action.

Thanks

[goldwing]

I was in the same situation a while back and the ride was treated as a renewal.

Have fun

[AuxBatOn]

A little reading perhaps?

(4) An applicant for the renewal of an instrument rating that expired more than 24 months before the date of application, shall:
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

....(a) successfully complete the flight test referred to in paragraph 421.46(2)(c); and
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

....(b) obtain a minimum of 70% in the written examination (INRAT) described in CAR 421.46(2)(a) - Knowledge Requirement.
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

(c) Skill

An applicant shall successfully complete:
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

....(i) a flight test in accordance with the Flight Test Standards - Instrument Rating (TP 9939E),
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

....(ii) a Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC) for operations under IFR in accordance with Part VI or Part VII, as applicable, or
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

....(iii) an applicant who successfully completes a Line Operational Evaluation (LOE) from an approved Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) is considered to have met the Part VI or Part VII pilot proficiency check.
(amended 2005/12/01; no previous version)

In order to be admitted to a flight test required for the renewal of an Instrument Rating, the candidate
will present:

a. photo identification with a signature;


b. valid Pilot Licence; and


c .proof of holding, or having held within the previous 24 months, a valid Canadian Instrument Rating.

Note: If the Instrument Rating has been expired for more than 24 months, the requirements for admission to an initial flight test must be met.

Everything is in the Regs, when you are willing to take some time (i.e.: 5 minutes) to dig for the info...

[PropSpinner]

AuxBatOn - I appreciate your answer, however you assume I didn't take the time to do a little reading!!

The reason that I wrote in the original thread that I am getting mixed stories, is because not only do some schools say one thing, and others give the opposite story, but Transport Canada themselves told me that the flight test could be conducted as a renewal, whereas the flight test examiner I spoke with told me it will be an initial.

Lot's of mixed answers!!

[AuxBatOn]

PropSpinner. The thing says all you need for a renewal ride after 24 months from expiry is the admission requirement of the initial. However, it nowhere says you need to do the initial ride. So you CAN do it as a renewal ride

[PropSpinner]

Auxbaton

Thanks for your reply!

It would be great if all schools, examiners, and transport were on the same page!

[I Я Instructor]

It would be great if all schools, examiners, and transport were on the same page!

I would be happy if at least TC employees were all on the same page! Every time I call for an answer and don't like it, I just call again and ask someone else!

[square]

I have a question too that I couldn't find an answer for in the CARs, if one is instrument rated and still valid on that rating, but hasn't actually flown IFR in, say, 18 months, as I understand it he's no longer current, because he hasn't done his 6 approaches in the last 6 months, but how do you get current? Just go up dual and do 6 approaches, or do you need a flight test, or do you just need to solo 6 approaches like for a night rating?

[C-GPFG]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not hunting the CARs reference up on a Sunday, but I believe you can stay current/regain currency by flying a certified sim under the supervision of an instructor who holds a valid IFR rating. However, I would find the CARs reference before attempting to regain currency by doing this.

[AuxBatOn]

I have a question too that I couldn't find an answer for in the CARs, if one is instrument rated and still valid on that rating, but hasn't actually flown IFR in, say, 18 months, as I understand it he's no longer current, because he hasn't done his 6 approaches in the last 6 months, but how do you get current? Just go up dual and do 6 approaches, or do you need a flight test, or do you just need to solo 6 approaches like for a night rating?

Again, in the CARs...

(3) No holder of an instrument rating shall exercise the privileges referred to in Section 401.47 unless the holder has

....(a) within the 12 months preceding the flight, successfully completed an instrument rating flight test in an aircraft or in a Level B, C or D simulator of the same group as the aircraft;

....(b) within the six months preceding the flight, acquired six hours of instrument time and completed six instrument approaches to the minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot in an aircraft, in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, or in a Level B, C or D simulator of the same category as the aircraft or in a flight training device under the supervision of a person who holds the qualifications referred to in subsection 425.21(9) of the personnel licensing standards;
(amended 2001/03/01; previous version)

....(c) within the six months preceding the flight, acquired six hours of instrument time and completed six instrument approaches to the minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot in an aircraft, in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating; or
(amended 2001/03/01; previous version)

....(d) successfully completed, for an aircraft, a pilot proficiency check whose validity period has not expired and which included the instrument procedures portion of
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

........(i) Schedule I to Standard 624 - Private Operator Passenger Transportation of the General Operating and Flight Rules Standards, in respect of aircraft operated under Subpart 4 of Part VI, and
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

........(ii) the following schedules to the Commercial Air Services Standards in respect of the corresponding aircraft operated under Subparts 2 to 5 of Part VII:
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

............(A) Schedule I to Standard 722 - Aerial Work in respect of aeroplanes operated under Subpart 2,
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

............(B) Schedule II to Standard 722 - Aerial Work in respect of helicopters operated under Subpart 2,
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

............(C) Schedule I to section 723.88 of Standard 723 - Air Taxi - Aeroplanes in respect of aeroplanes operated under Subpart 3,
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

............(D) the schedule to section 723.88 of Standard 723 - Air Taxi - Helicopters in respect of helicopters operated under Subpart 3,
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

............(E) Schedule I or II to section 724.108 of Standard 724 - Commuter Operations - Aeroplanes in respect of aeroplanes operated under Subpart 4,
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

............(F) the Helicopter Schedule to section 724.108 of Standard 724 - Commuter Operations - Helicopters in respect of helicopters operated under Subpart 4, or
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

............(G) Schedule I, II or III to section 725.106 of Standard 725 - Airline Operations - Aeroplanes in respect of aeroplanes operated under Subpart 5.
(amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

So, you eighter need:

1) An other flight test;
2) 6 hours of instrument time and 6 approaches with an instructor (or anyone qualified to give IFR trainign) eighter in an Approved Simulator for your category or the airplane
3) 6 hours of instrument time and 6 approaches as an instructor in the airplane
4) a PPC

It took me 5 minutes to find the answer...

[square]

Well I looked for longer than 5 minutes but I'm not as smart as you =( so I thank you for your help sir. I think I'll have to fish for a PPC =)

[Stevo226]

Anybody know where any of these approved simulators are? primarily in Southern Ontario?

[TTJJ]

Propspinner, before you go and spend your money on recurrent training consider this option.

First a little backround:
I was trying to renew my Canadian IFR based on my US IFR a few months ago.
TC said that I couldn't use the US IFR to RENEW the Canadian IFR, BUT if I let my Canadian IFR lapse for more than 2 years they could issue me a new one based on the US IFR through the new reciprocity agreement.

My US IFR took about 5 hours.
You are going to shell out for those hours anyway just to get back up to speed in Canada.

Sooooo, I think that you are in a unique position to get 2 IFR ratings and ATPs for basically the price a Canadian renewal.
You may not need the FAA one,...today,....but what the heck....it's going to be almost free.

It might bear thinking about