Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
http://www.france24.com/en/20081113-pas ... avi=FRANCENational strike of the pilots in France from November 14th to 17th
French airline pilots unions have unanimously called a four-day strike from Friday 14 November at one minute past midnight to Monday 17 November at midnight, to protest against changes to the retirement age currently under discussion in the French Parliament (changing from 60 to 65)
Not really. The French are pretty famous for having 35 hour work weeks and the like. Also, If you'd been looking forward to retiring for 30 years at age 60, and someone tacked on an extra 5 years, you'd be a little upset..Let me get this straight... The french parliament wants to change the retirement age from 60 to 65 and they are UPSET?!? That's crazy.
Yeah, but they can still retire at 60 if they want and those that want to stay longer can.North Shore wrote:Not really. The French are pretty famous for having 35 hour work weeks and the like. Also, If you'd been looking forward to retiring for 30 years at age 60, and someone tacked on an extra 5 years, you'd be a little upset..
Shouldn't be only Air France who goes on strike !?More than 80 % of AF pilots voted against retirement beyond 60 almost 2 years ago.
A very small but extremely active group of pilots called PNT65 ( in and outside AF ) with their own agenda ( like fourth wive, alemonied to their ears or no life ) lobbied (very effectively I have to say,) while SNPL was embroiled in its usual constant and useless bickering with, crowning moment, the recently elected chairman handing out his resignation at the beginning of summer after only a few weeks in office, leaving a huge void that was never filled. The " PNT 65" group had a field day lobbying parliament with no one challenging their claims as no election was held until " La rentrée " or end of summer holiday. If you've not lived a typical french " rentrée " then you've missed out on life !!
The newly elected board is made of an interesting mix starting with its chairman, clearly in favor of 65, being overruled by his council who just voted the strike. This is the very man we will see on TV explaining, serious as a heart attack, why the pilots are on strike. Don't say a word.............I know !!!
Now as to the reasons of the strike : Back a couple of weeks ago, in the middle of the night, the french parliament voted an amendment pushing retirement age to 65 after the Transport Secretary, in a letter dated December 2007, swore the rule would never be changed unless talks were held between the government, the pilots and the airlines. No such talks ever took place. If that isn't back stabbing then what is !!!
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't BA, although the law in the UK says 65 still retires its pilots at 60. KLM at 56 and Lufthansa at...... 56 when the law in Germany says 67 ???
The french law doesn't allow AF to have its own collective agreement to by pass that bill. This would be regarded as discrimination. Hence the strike being the only way to try to oppose this bill. Air France would have signed such an agreement with both hands, there would have been no strike and except for a hanfull, everybody would have walked out happy. They never showed any interest in having pilots over 60 and always very clearly said it. As an employer, they can only stick to the law. They are clearly being punished for something they haven't done and were never interested in having in the first place.
Young F/O's are pissed as hell and it doesn' really matter weather senior captains strike or not, they won't have a copilot to fly with.
It is the worst timing for a strike. I never saw a good one either.
Now, I'm sure this forum will be in no shortage of people explaining how very fit and fantastic they are at 63 and how they prove it 5 times day to their nearest and dearest after a 14 hours night flight; how the french , once again, have lost the plot BUT :
All it comes to is , a minority deciding for a clearly decided majority and the Government lying its toush off ( I know, nothing new ).
Unfortunately, the reaction will me matching the outrage with dire consequences for the airlines and their employees.
Precisely my point.Ironically Air France as an employer benefits if older and more expensive pilots are forced to retire at 60 or earlier. This was after all the reason age 60 was sponsored by the large american airlines in the early days.
Short notice ?? In this case they were given 3 weeks notice. Hardly rushed wouldn't you say ?? No airline in its right mind is going to herald a strike 3 weeks in advance facing the very real risk to see booking cancelations by the thousands.
In the newt few days, the government will come out looking as innocent as a virgin claiming they were offering all kind of sweeteners, which will probably be right.
The idea the french have of negociating goes as follow :
-" I am going to screw you big time "
-People clearly not relishing the prospect
-People stop working disrupting other people's life which isn't exactly a picnic right now.
- Government says again " I am going to screw you even harder than originally planned.
- People even more cranky disrupt even more by which time hoodle of money has been wasted.
- When government assesses situation as having reached its " bargaining point " agrees to give all it was prepared to give from the start.
- People walk away with everything they were ready to accept from the start.
- Strike takes place anyway as airlines have already canceled flights and passengers gone to other airlines........never to be seen again.
- Both parties claim landslide victory over other party.
- Life goes on as usual until next crisis.
Don't forget, the light at the end of the tunnel for the french is to light up a cigar and rant about Americans. If it means that they go on strike so that they don't have to wait another 5 years, they'll do that !Embraer190 wrote:Let me get this straight... The french parliament wants to change the retirement age from 60 to 65 and they are UPSET?!? That's crazy.
TouchéE-Flyer wrote: Don't forget, the light at the end of the tunnel for the french is to light up a cigar and rant about Americans. If it means that they go on strike so that they don't have to wait another 5 years, they'll do that !
the difference beetwen a canadian pilot and a french pilot is that a french pilot will start a strike to protect his advantgages because he knows that if he says YES only once he won't have the benefit to say NO the next time, instead of accepting the first semi-crappy job he finds in a shit-hole and feeling happy about it.Embraer190 wrote:TouchéE-Flyer wrote: Don't forget, the light at the end of the tunnel for the french is to light up a cigar and rant about Americans. If it means that they go on strike so that they don't have to wait another 5 years, they'll do that !
Code: Select all
The idea the french have of negociating goes as follow :
-" I am going to screw you big time "
-People clearly not relishing the prospect
-People stop working disrupting other people's life which isn't exactly a picnic right now.
- Government says again " I am going to screw you even harder than originally planned.
- People even more cranky disrupt even more by which time hoodle of money has been wasted.
- When government assesses situation as having reached its " bargaining point " agrees to give all it was prepared to give from the start.
- People walk away with everything they were ready to accept from the start.
- Strike takes place anyway as airlines have already canceled flights and passengers gone to other airlines........never to be seen again.
- Both parties claim landslide victory over other party.
- Life goes on as usual until next crisis.It's only a matter of time. We're just so damn good-natured and love our jobs!scopiton wrote: french pilots are doing what canadians peers should have done since decades : stand up for decent pay and treatment
This is very true ! I think there's simply some sense of fear that if we reject unsatisfactory work, we have "burned a bridge" and our name will spread around as bad people in the industry. I mean what could the other reason be? We love being treated like shit? I doubt it. If Canadian's loved being treated badly, they wouldn't stick the finger up when some guy cuts them off in driving.scopiton wrote:the difference beetwen a canadian pilot and a french pilot is that a french pilot will start a strike to protect his advantgages because he knows that if he says YES only once he won't have the benefit to say NO the next time, instead of accepting the first semi-crappy job he finds in a shit-hole and feeling happy about it.Embraer190 wrote:TouchéE-Flyer wrote: Don't forget, the light at the end of the tunnel for the french is to light up a cigar and rant about Americans. If it means that they go on strike so that they don't have to wait another 5 years, they'll do that !
french pilots are doing what canadians peers should have done since decades : stand up for decent pay and treatment
he's rightCode: Select all
The idea the french have of negociating goes as follow : -" I am going to screw you big time " -People clearly not relishing the prospect -People stop working disrupting other people's life which isn't exactly a picnic right now. - Government says again " I am going to screw you even harder than originally planned. - People even more cranky disrupt even more by which time hoodle of money has been wasted. - When government assesses situation as having reached its " bargaining point " agrees to give all it was prepared to give from the start. - People walk away with everything they were ready to accept from the start. - Strike takes place anyway as airlines have already canceled flights and passengers gone to other airlines........never to be seen again. - Both parties claim landslide victory over other party. - Life goes on as usual until next crisis.
now the canadian's idea about negiciating :
boss = " I am going to screw you big time"
pilot = "please do sir, how much do I owe you ?"
you're just a gang of castrated pricks
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