CPL Cross-country flight questions

[Guzen]

Hi,

Just wondering about the 300nm requirement for the CPL cross-country flight...

Does it require that your destination, if measured on a map, is 300nm or more from the point of departure?

For example, if I want to fly from point A to point B from West to East, and they are 200nm apart via a straight line, could I fly 150nm+ to the NE, land, then fly SE another 150nm+ to point B, to make 300nm+ the trip length?

Also...


What sort of proof does Transport Canada need for this trip?

Do I have to do it from my regular training school's airport?

How's it even possible to find a day where it's VFR weather the entire length of the trip?

Thanks.

[AUGER9]

The destination must be 300nm from the departure point. You cannot do it the way you suggested.

What sort of proof does Transport Canada need for this trip?
You're logbook?

How's it even possible to find a day where it's VFR weather the entire length of the trip?
I got it done in one day, and I even went to one of those strict wx colleges.

[Colibri]

Hey,

1. It has to be a 300nm radius from your point of departure.

2. No, you don't have to start from your home airport (see above). I did my 300nm in the USA.

3. As far as getting VFR weather for the entire trip... why not spread it out over a couple of days and fly somewhere interesting. Stop at different places along the way and you'll have a good time.

[Freddy_Francis]

What sort of proof does Transport Canada need for this trip?

Do I have to do it from my regular training school's airport?

How's it even possible to find a day where it's VFR weather the entire length of the trip?

1-Have it in your logbook as "300nm trip Leg#1,2,3 etc. - And MAKE SURE IT IS CLEAR IN YOUR PTR YOUR ROUTING FOR THE 300NM X-COUNTRY!
2-You can depart any airport as long as the 2 airports you use are A)-300nm apart and B)-you make 2 intermidiate stops in between. (I did some back tracking prior to my trip)
3-The summer is your best bet, but there is nothing that says you have to have it done in one day, this for whatever reason is the most unknown part of this excercise,

Have fun, it should be an enjoyable learning experience, not a hurdle to overcome!
Fly Safe!

[MG_]

.

[chipmunk]

As far as documenting the legs in your logbook goes, I recommend recording each leg as a separate entry. Be sure to get your "certified arrived" stamp/signature for each line since TC will be looking for verification that you actually made it to your destinations. After a recent bout of dealing with an FTU and TC on this very issue, I would also recommend keeping every shred of paperwork from your flight (ie. flight plan forms, fuel receipts, business cards from FBOs, charts showing routing, etc.) to prove that you made it.

Seriously???????
Wow.
I just did touch and goes at my 2 intermediates, and wrote the route in my logbook and had no problems... have things really changed that much in 7 years??
I'm sure a certification of your logbook (which you should keep neat and professional) by the appropriate person would be fine, as well as making sure your PTR reflects the trip. Keeping flight plan forms and charts is ridiculous.

[AuxBatOn]

Suggestion: do your night rating first, then do your 300 nm at night.

[F/O Crunch]

Suggestion: do your night rating first, then do your 300 nm at night.

....... Inverted

[MichaelP]

Faced with this issue I had a pick of many cross countires well in excess of the 300NM requirement.
TC will check the distance between your departure airport and the destination airport where-ever it was done on this planet.

I hate it when people fly from Boundary Bay to Eugene Oregon and back in a day, or up to Mackenzie BC...
Pilots who do it in a day are not having as much fun or learning as much.
Many who in the future want to do an Instrument Rating forget that they need 50 hours cross country. So why not go further?
Take a week off and go for a really long trip and build those cross country hours.

One of the stupidest things is the requirement to do this in an "aeroplane". I flew 77 hours to Florida and back in an ATEC Zephyr C IZFR (advanced ultralight). None of this cross country experience would count if I needed it for the CPL or IR.
I flew another Zephyr to Nashville, and this time would count as this aeroplane was registered C FANM; but it was the same aircraft type!

[C-GGGQ]

As far as documenting the legs in your logbook goes, I recommend recording each leg as a separate entry. Be sure to get your "certified arrived" stamp/signature for each line since TC will be looking for verification that you actually made it to your destinations. After a recent bout of dealing with an FTU and TC on this very issue, I would also recommend keeping every shred of paperwork from your flight (ie. flight plan forms, fuel receipts, business cards from FBOs, charts showing routing, etc.) to prove that you made it.

Seriously???????
Wow.
I just did touch and goes at my 2 intermediates, and wrote the route in my logbook and had no problems... have things really changed that much in 7 years??
I'm sure a certification of your logbook (which you should keep neat and professional) by the appropriate person would be fine, as well as making sure your PTR reflects the trip. Keeping flight plan forms and charts is ridiculous.

this is what a lot of flight schools are telling students (personally i think its scare tactics). while I agree with a poster above go further etc. have fun. lots of schools wont allow it (yeah i know you pay for it why not) since they see it as you can only fly so many hours a day and they could have that plane rented out all day they are losing money.

about the logbook:

Mine in Route of flight has starting point and end point. In the remarks section i put down my route CCS3-CYSJ-CYTN-CYQY. this shows where i went and that i made 2 stops (my return was just direct so the next line i just have CYGY - YSJ in the route and no remarks. No stamps cause i only did touch and goes other than the destination to refuel. Hell i'm even a fairly messy writer. never had a problem with my logbook at TC it was certified by my school and thats all they needed no logs no flight plan sheets. As much as we all dislike TC they aren't ALWAYS out to get you.

[E-Flyer]

Hi,

Just wondering about the 300nm requirement for the CPL cross-country flight...

Does it require that your destination, if measured on a map, is 300nm or more from the point of departure?

For example, if I want to fly from point A to point B from West to East, and they are 200nm apart via a straight line, could I fly 150nm+ to the NE, land, then fly SE another 150nm+ to point B, to make 300nm+ the trip length?

Also...


What sort of proof does Transport Canada need for this trip?

Do I have to do it from my regular training school's airport?

How's it even possible to find a day where it's VFR weather the entire length of the trip?

Thanks.

It's possible, my long xc was a week and it was 2500OVC to clear skies almost everyday; seemed as if I was travelling with the weather pattern. Mind you, had to re-route here and there due to fog but yea.

But here's a question for you, what's the point of flying the 300nm trip if it's supposed to be perfect; isn't this trip designed for you to measure your own accountability, decision making, and skill level in becoming a commercial pilot? That's my take on it, I could be wrong.

In terms of proof that you have to provide for the issuance of the CPL:

Pilot Training Record, with specified routes and stops, remember you need 3. Also, if you fly into an airport that has a wierd airport code such as 5SQ, you need to name the airport. I named all of them to cover my ass. Didn't want transport to find any issue and cause them to delay the process. And if you have a XC column in your PTR, fill it out in that column.

For ex: Instead of writing KLAX - KSJC, you write Los Angeles - San Jose.

Cheers

[MichaelP]

I sometimes write the airport code in the remarks column of my logbook, otherwise since the very beginning I'd write Exeter - Exeter rather than EGTE - EGTE.
My logbook is as much a diary of events and a reminder of flights past as an official document. Look at any flight in my logbooks and most often that flight can be replayed in my mind.

Another falsity passed on by flight schools is the requirement for a Canadian Logbook. If the foreign logbook has all the information why change it?
I agree the Jeppesen logbook is awful with no name column for the PIC/Instructor.
I started with Airtour logbooks and a continue with same.

what's the point of flying the 300nm trip if it's supposed to be perfect?

There's little point. We have to learn our weather limits and we have to learn decision making. There's risk here, but if you come out of it unscathed then you're doing alright.
If you've decided to get yourself seriously scared then perhaps being a Commercial Pilot might be something you do later.

If the commercial route is the one you want to follow then you should challenge yourself with due respect to PDM and the regulations.
The 100 hours PIC required should be used wisely.

This is where flying hours as a measure of experience is largely false. A pilot flying 100 hours in superb weather A to B in a Cessna 172, straight and level with one landing per flight, is a lot less experienced than a pilot who spends much fewer hours but perfects his/her skill flying exercises.
I've flown across the USA with a GPS... in it's bag and not turned on
I've flown across the USA and turned on the GPS passing Seattle with a long way to go and seen 57 Knots... I'd rather not see 57 knots
A pilot who has a GPS in his bag with fresh batteries, but stiil goes out to perfect map, heading, time, dead reckoning is a pilot who has orientation skills.

On a side note, with reference to the above; many many CPL students do not use their 100 hours wisely and instead develop bad habits through laziness. You save money on your Commercial training if you use this time wisely.
I hate taking student's money teaching them all over again. Commercial Pilot Instruction should mostly be coaching towards perfection.
If your instructor has to teach you how to do a steep turn, you've failed!
With 100 hours PIC you should have practiced those steep turns over and over again.

And don't stop reading... Read outside the standard flight training books, read aerobatic books, books by authors who have flown a wide variety of aircraft, fought in wars, and flown across oceans. There's a lot to be gleaned from written experience.

[E-Flyer]

If the commercial route is the one you want to follow then you should challenge yourself with due respect to PDM and the regulations.
The 100 hours PIC required should be used wisely.

This should be stickied.

[MG_]

.

[Highflyinpilot]

As mentioned above, 300nm apart, 2 intermideate stops between. If you would rather do it in one day, just be patient, youl get days that are good. Having said that dont wait for a day that there are clear skies from a to b because that might be a little tricky to get. You will get spots along your trip with clouds, so long there high enough you could stay below them is not a problem.

Gotta love those schools that say it has to be clear skies all the way, not a cloud in sight

[E-Flyer]

My bad !

2 stops, not 3 !

But do as many stops as you financially can fit in. Each airport is a new experience, and as Michael P recommended for my CPL xc, don't be affraid to piss off some big airports HAHAHAHHAHA. They love it when you're infront of an A320 taxing about 10 kts. It's natural for them to bust their 25 kt rule and taxi over you. In my case I was leading rush hour traffic and counted about 12 planes behind me. It ATC referred to me as the "canadian" single engine.

But yea, fly into some big airports that is always fun and is directly linked with your pstar days, wake turbulence avoidance and airmanship 101.

[C-GGGQ]

of course then you have to deal with the big airport landing fees (if i remember pearson is $227 for a 172) thats an hour and a half almost of rental time (when i started it was 2 hours and a bit )

[MG_]

My bad !

2 stops, not 3 !

But do as many stops as you financially can fit in. Each airport is a new experience, and as Michael P recommended for my CPL xc, don't be affraid to piss off some big airports HAHAHAHHAHA. They love it when you're infront of an A320 taxing about 10 kts. It's natural for them to bust their 25 kt rule and taxi over you. In my case I was leading rush hour traffic and counted about 12 planes behind me. It ATC referred to me as the "canadian" single engine.

But yea, fly into some big airports that is always fun and is directly linked with your pstar days, wake turbulence avoidance and airmanship 101.

Try O'Hare... they only charge $26 for a Cherokee!

[trey kule]

Just as an aside, as of three years ago LAX charged nada for landing fees, and if you picked the right FBO overnights were very reasonable..(pick the wrong one and you need a second mortgage on your house)

Anyway, the sense I am getting here is there is more than just one or two pilots finishing up commercial licenses with pretty much the minimum required cross country time. Is that an accurate impression? If it is is I am curious to know what pilots are doing with their other required solo time.
As cross country is going to be pretty much the focus of most everyone's commercial career, and as I believe, you get much more laid back with experience it is hard to imagine why commercial students are not going on trip after trip to build time...and I dont mean just one big, round the country trip.

[C-GGGQ]

i had 50 hours left after i was done my multi/ IFR till i had my 200 for my commercial so i did another 50 hours of x country with family and friends lots of fun

[E-Flyer]

My bad !

2 stops, not 3 !

But do as many stops as you financially can fit in. Each airport is a new experience, and as Michael P recommended for my CPL xc, don't be affraid to piss off some big airports HAHAHAHHAHA. They love it when you're infront of an A320 taxing about 10 kts. It's natural for them to bust their 25 kt rule and taxi over you. In my case I was leading rush hour traffic and counted about 12 planes behind me. It ATC referred to me as the "canadian" single engine.

But yea, fly into some big airports that is always fun and is directly linked with your pstar days, wake turbulence avoidance and airmanship 101.

Try O'Hare... they only charge $26 for a Cherokee!

Hahaha ! Yes... Or better yet, Atlanta !

[Guzen]

Thanks everyone for your input. It's always good to get a bunch of different perspectives.

C-GGGQ, Did you actually land at Pearson with a 172, or were you just relaying the fees?

Anyway, this is really fun to plan. Not 100% of the time, but it's very interesting.

[C-GGGQ]

I'M not nearly that stupid but while i was an instructor a student did(not mine). It was quite the shock to see that bill

[North Shore]

Assuming that you are getting your CPL as a career move, DON'T waste your time by going 301nm and then returning. This is the only time in your career where you are calling the shots as to where your aeroplane goes. Take some time, save up some cash, and fly across the country, or go down to Florida to watch a Shuttle launch, etc... You've got ~100 hours of build-up time before you get your CPL - don't waste it by sitting in the circuit or the local practice area. You'll learn far more useful flying skills if you move out of your comfort area than you will if you stay in it.

[200hr Wonder]

Man this is going to be one of the ONLY times as a pilot you get to choose where, when and how you do the flying! After that you are a starving pilot and the boss tells you whats happening, so enjoy it!

Off the top of my head I did ZBB - YBW with a couple of stops for my 300nm and my uncle made me a nice steak dinner when I got there and I visited with family. Fun trip for sure. Went Boundary Bay to Las Vegas with a buddy, different flying in the US for sure. Flew down the Oregon coast to Monterrey/Carmel with another friend. Interesting weather with fog in that part of the world. Boundary Bay to just past Winnipeg made for some interesting navigation challenges on the prairies cause it all looks the same and we did not follow the Trans Canada. Took the twin down to Sacramento after my IFR rating to experience some saturated us IFR airspace. Was going to go to Alaska but the icing was nasty when we had everything lined up so we changed to still do a fun trip. They where amazing and I have a tonne of pictures, stories and amazing memories from them. Learned so much too! That is what it is all about. I know being a poor ass medivac pilot now I will not get to do that sort of fun flying for a long long time if ever again!