CBC thrashing Air Canada

[aroundthewing]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/ ... tages.html

along with many other headlines at CBC.

[wallypilot]

i would like to know why AC has canceled all short and medium haul flights from YVR....yet conditions are better than on sunday...ie both runways are still operational...at least were, the last time I checked. Is de-icing a problem right now?

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more ... 0957_22312

not bash AC here at all, since these are very difficult conditions, but why are they having so much more of a difficult time than WJ? or are the WJ stories just not making the headlines?

[DaveP]

If the media only understood what we have to deal with. Westjet is struggling too.

Keep the chins up and get them there safely - late or not. That's all that really matters; everyone I'm sure is doing their best.

Merry Christmas!
Dave.

[tonysoprano]

The plane sat on the tarmac for 12 hours? That's not acceptable. Where's that pax bill of rights? Terrible. I'm embarrassed.

Wally.
Apparantly when YVR was down to one runway, AC cancelled most of the domestic flts out of YVR in order to get the overseas flts in and out. I suspect this would have repurcussions that would last a couple of days or more. Bad call on our part but the question is also why is YVR so ill equipped?

[aroundthewing]

Just seems strange that Air Canada is getting walloped by the press. I'm sure other airlines must be having the same weather related problems!
12 hours sitting on the tarmac in YVR....somebody should be fired over that one!!
I also hear that WJ is paying for hotels and meals to disrupted passengers and AC is not. Not good!

[Embraer190]

. Bad call on our part but the question is also why is YVR so ill equipped?

Because it's YVR!!!

[rigpiggy]

I remember about 6yrs back? Sitting on the Deice Pad for 6 hrs. They had to send a truck to Seattle to get deice fluid. Funniest thing being the captain savaging the YVRAA over his cellphone. He also took enough extra juice to .88 it all the way to YYZ. 3+08 wheelsup/down

[just curious]

I missed, and won't be reading the Article.

Having said that, I flew with four airlines to get where Mrs Curious wanted us to be for Christmas. Winnipeg, where it is colder than the South Pole, and not as sunny.

Candian North had weather below the approach ban heading to YEV to pick us up. The CSRs there were superb under prssure, and their dispatcher was innovative enogh to persuade 7F to swap the combi config to full pax, and pulled a spare 48 people out of YEV to YZF. After my 22nd consecutive "random" search at the hands of YZF security, CDN North launched and got into YEG 2 hours later than they would have in a perfect world, (this wouldn't be 467, the sked of doom, which may only be one time alternate weeks!). The CDN North ground staff had advised their peers at AC next door at YEG gate 49 (a popular enough meeting spot for northerners as to have it's own Facebook group) that we (OK, me) would be late. They held the Dash, I got my butt in the seat, and we launched for YYC.

Time enough to run like a mad fool for the gate in the next concourse to check in on sked. Run, I did. Like a kid pulling an eat and run. It seemed only appropriate, karma being what it is, the the gate display changed to CANCELLED, just as I arrived at it. Since there was no gate agen, I asumed someone I knew was toying with my nerves, besides the All-Mighty. BUt, sadly, no.

I wandered around a few gates over before I found an actual AC employee, to advise him the crowd at the gate was mildly curious as to what was going on. Ok, so I have a gift for understatement. After he finished working his flight, he wandered over with an armload of pamphlets with a special contact number for re-booking. Since my cell phone package is fairly generous, I left it on auto dial till the phone connected several hours later. The little kid at the house I was staying at now has the Celine Dion holding song stuck in her head, which may affect her for years without therapy. Sadly, no human ever responded between pickup and battery death 5 and a half hours later.

The gate agent at YYC was to be commended, unlike the management types he vainly tried to call on the inside numbers for answers, or the balance of arrivals counter agents, who were conspicuous by their absense.

After 12 hours of Celine, I called WestJet. A human picked up the phone in 2 minutes. After pointing out slowly clearly and in a serious tone that wx in YVR, and YYZ meant that AC were running well behind time playing catchup, he pointed out that he could put my on 236 to WPG, but they would likely be an hour late given that everthing else that day was. He was out by 30 seconds or so.

Karma being what it is, my Baggage didn't make the leap from the little gate 49 terminal arm to the other side. A call to the humans in CDN North's YEV office revealed they were hard at work tracking it and shipping it to the 'Peg. A chance check of my email at the YYC airport revealed that one of the CSRs in YEG (AC, CDN North, both, dunno)had taken the initiative to ship my bag to the 'Peg, and it made it there before me.

Winnipeg is of course colder than the Arctic. Why people live there I don't know, (unless they are instructors in the Manitoba bad drivers program), but they do, and they seem awfully friendly.

Of the hundreds of people helping to get aircraft moving that night, I have to give hight marks to all the CSRs, CDN North in particular, and the CSR in YYC, along with the mystery helpers in YEG. The font and back end crews faced with too few duty hours, ramp crews, meals, and too much carry on baggage, thank you for doing your job, snd not ax-murdering the idiot ahead of my seat in 16c. Although he deserved it.

On the other hand, to the rampies in Yellowknife: I know you're kids and naturally cool. But it's cold out there. Don't be stupid. Put a coat on. A hoodie won't cut it.

For the planning types in YYC, and the AC phone system generally: When you have advance notice that some of your significant hubs are going to be dramatically affected by weather, ramping up counter and phone staff would beef up your re-structuring credibility with us rank and file travellers.

It's Christmas, and I believe I may have a little rum in my eggnog. Before I do, for all those in the biz that helped me get here... thanks, and Merry Christmas. Now go home and don't answer your phones.

JC

[wallypilot]

the question is also why is YVR so ill equipped?

that is a good question, and I am sure it comes down to economics...these snow storms with days of cool weather after come by so rarely, that I guess they figure it's not worth it to invest in de-ice and snow clearing capability.....with most storms, we may get a tonne of snow over night, but then it pours rain later in the day, and runways and taxiways are clear by evening. YVR just can't handle multiple sequential snow days....my guess is such an event is not frequent enough to warrant the investment.

[. .]

Not to bash WJ, but their rebooking line in YUL was at least 5 times as long as AC's in YUL. Yet it's only AC that ever gets the bad press. There were plenty of "I'm never flying ________ again" types in both lines. What a crazy holiday season.

[wallypilot]

If anything, this bad weather shows how reliable air transport has become. That people get so upset, even in a major winter event, shows that the general traveling public has very high expectations these days. They just don't realise how much of a challenge it is to operate in these conditions. Yet everyone still demands the lowest price. If air travel generated better profit margins, maybe there would be better facilities in places like YVR that so rarely need them.

[Mr. North]

Great post Just Curious!

The difference between AC and WJ in terms of customer service is appalling no matter what day of the year it is.

[E-Flyer]

Not to bash WJ, but their rebooking line in YUL was at least 5 times as long as AC's in YUL. Yet it's only AC that ever gets the bad press. There were plenty of "I'm never flying ________ again" types in both lines. What a crazy holiday season.

Haha... they all say that and 2 weeks later they buy another aca/west jet ticket. Plus, no body really forced the passengers to fly with ACA, it was their own personal preference. Stop mumbling bs people, ACA and WJA are your national carriers, like it or not.

[Four1oh]

Yeah, I was attempting the YHZ redeye, and we looked at the problem a hundred different ways on our 4+ hour flight over, but couldn't make the numbers work. We heard KFC divert without even descending from cruise, then the WJ flight from St John's... and then us. Got the same crap once we got on the ground in YUL about not flying WJ ever again, but at least a few people thanked us for making the right decision. Even had an F-18 backseater onboard from Cold Lake. He just laughed when I showed him the latest YHZ atis...

Winds gusting to 55kts, and about 20 degrees off centerline, and the best they could do was .23 by the time we were ready for top of descent.

[wallypilot]

Got the same crap once we got on the ground in YUL about not flying WJ ever again, but at least a few people thanked us for making the right decision. Even had an F-18 backseater onboard from Cold Lake. He just laughed when I showed him the latest YHZ atis...

Winds gusting to 55kts, and about 20 degrees off centerline, and the best they could do was .23 by the time we were ready for top of descent.

Yep...not really much you can do about that.

[glorifiedtaxidriver]

The plane sat on the tarmac for 12 hours? That's not acceptable. Where's that pax bill of rights? Terrible. I'm embarrassed.

I was on that flight. Unbelievable. I felt kind of sorry for the new cabin crew and flight crew that walked onto that plane at 7 in the morning though. None of it was their fault and they took the brunt of the passengers' rage. Unacceptable that we weren't allowed off the airplane though. Its not an experience I'd wish on anyone. And the reason we were delayed was because they pulled the a/c off a trip to Australia to do the Toronto run and take more passengers. It was fueled for Sydney though and had to be de-fueled. The only problem was that once they filled one truck, they realized there were no more empty trucks at the airport. Thats when we got our 2 am announcement that we would have to wait till at least 7 for them to empty a truck to continue to de-fuel our a/c. Its amazing the things that passengers "in the know" say in these situations though. One guy told everyone that the only reason they wanted to take any fuel off was to save money by being lighter. Another guy that "worked at an airport" said that they lied to us and there were lots of fuel trucks, it was just a line to keep us in the dark, and another guy started a rumour that they knew at 3 o'clock that afternoon that our flight was going to be delayed overnight and purposely didn't tell us. People were calling flight attendants names. It was a pretty sad display of adult behavior. Of course then the news cameras are there at toronto to get the story. Nobody checks facts, they just let these irate passengers have their 5 minutes of fame and put it on the news. Don't get me wrong, I was upset too, but sometimes people can act like complete jackasses. Everyone on the plane got a 500 dollar credit with air canada though. I'm glad its over, for me at least.

[Embraer190]

I was on that flight. Unbelievable. I felt kind of sorry for the new cabin crew and flight crew that walked onto that plane at 7 in the morning though. None of it was their fault and they took the brunt of the passengers' rage. Unacceptable that we weren't allowed off the airplane though. Its not an experience I'd wish on anyone. And the reason we were delayed was because they pulled the a/c off a trip to Australia to do the Toronto run and take more passengers. It was fueled for Sydney though and had to be de-fueled. The only problem was that once they filled one truck, they realized there were no more empty trucks at the airport. Thats when we got our 2 am announcement that we would have to wait till at least 7 for them to empty a truck to continue to de-fuel our a/c. Its amazing the things that passengers "in the know" say in these situations though. One guy told everyone that the only reason they wanted to take any fuel off was to save money by being lighter. Another guy that "worked at an airport" said that they lied to us and there were lots of fuel trucks, it was just a line to keep us in the dark, and another guy started a rumour that they knew at 3 o'clock that afternoon that our flight was going to be delayed overnight and purposely didn't tell us. People were calling flight attendants names. It was a pretty sad display of adult behavior. Of course then the news cameras are there at toronto to get the story. Nobody checks facts, they just let these irate passengers have their 5 minutes of fame and put it on the news. Don't get me wrong, I was upset too, but sometimes people can act like complete jackasses. Everyone on the plane got a 500 dollar credit with air canada though. I'm glad its over, for me at least.

Wow, that's crazy, thanks for sharing.

What types of announcements were coming from the flight deck? Were the pilots maintaining consistent contact with pax?

Just curious.

[bmc]

AC has a PR mess on their hands. Perception is reality and sadly this is a big mess for AC.

Anyone that has been with an air carrier long enough knows what bad weather does to an operation.

No AC employee needs this kind of bashing. Sad to see AC once again being the national punching bag.

[Brick Head]

Sat beside a reporter DHing a few years back and asked him straight up. Why, what appears to me, the biased reporting. Straight up answer he said? People love to hate AC. It sells.

PR? There really isn't anything AC can do about the press if they won't listen.

Anyone remember the Jet Blue fiasco a few Christmas's ago? Crews timed out. Wrong planes with wrong crew. They tried to operate in futility through a a massive snow event over Christmas with heavy loads. It took them a week to recover the operation after the WX was good. You want to talk about bad press?

AC operates through snow storm's with an eye on a clean start out the far side of the storm. They do not risk creating havoc to the operation following a snow event. You think people don't understand now? Try explaining to someone next week that they are not going because AC still hasn't recovered from the snow storm.

In the end more people get moved. Unfortunately that will likely be post Christmas.

Merry Christmas everyone

[aroundthewing]

I understand that this "photo copied" Customer Service Phone Number that was handed out to stranded AC passengers was a complete joke due to the fact the number was constantly busy (for hours). Air Canada really needs improvement in this part of the operation. Talking to a knowlegeable human being on the other end of that phone line goes a long way!! People were just as upset about that issue as they were of the delays and cancellations.

[tonysoprano]

bmc wrote

No AC employee needs this kind of bashing. Sad to see AC once again being the national punching bag.

Sadly, a reality which has no cure. Many flag carriers endure this. Just like the post office.

Arroundthewing.
In defence of the customer phone service, I think the automated technology has become the standard for any large company in any industry. AC moves 60-80,000 people a day. I suspect this time of year it's closer to 80+. I don't think we can have a perfect phone service no matter what. I do think that the problem we need to concentrate on is the decision making one that deals with operations on irops days. The ones who are making the decisions are not dealing with the public. The agents, FAs, Pilots etc are the ones dealing with customers and we have to somehow explain a bad decision made by someone else. Not an easy one to do. Frustrating to say the least. System Operations Control (SOC) has been known to drop the ball on irops days and guess who has to deal with the mess? I don't know what the answer is but I hope someone is being held responsible for their mistakes. Rant over. Merry Christmas.

[just curious]

Yeah, the front-line troops on all three carriers were still, at the end of a long bad day, doing a good job with what they had. And with a much better attitude than I would have had.

It's really too bad that driving over to a manager's house, and dragging them by the scruff of the neck to see how the operation unravels without support; would see an employee suspended or fired.

[glorifiedtaxidriver]

Wow, that's crazy, thanks for sharing.

What types of announcements were coming from the flight deck? Were the pilots maintaining consistent contact with pax?

Just curious.

There wasn't much because after 2 am when they realized that we weren't going anywhere, the crew was out of duty time, so they left. From 2 until the new crew came on around 7 there was no flight crew on board. Once the new crew came on, the captain did try to keep us informed, unfortunately, he had to keep telling us we would be delayed a little longer and everyone would start to yell whenever he tried to make an announcement. At one point while we were deicing he had to tell everyone that if people continued to abuse the flight attendants and act aggressively that he would turn the plane around and go back to the gate.

[2R]

Sounds like a safety issue if pax are on an airplane with no crew to direct them in an emergency .Or crew to realize that an emergency situation exists .Why would they keep the pax onboard with no crew ?Is this normal for Airlines to have pax onboard with no crew for extended lengths of time ?

[CD]

Cabin crew is required but not pilots...