Just between me and ATC

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:55 pm

Here is the scene. Weather is below and you realy got to go, what kind of line do you give ATC.
Happened to us. Middle of the night medivac to CFB Cold Lake Alta. Clear night, excellent VFR weather. while loading a very sick patient into the airplane, the airport fogs in. My co-jo says he has 1/2 mile vis at the button of the runway, determined by counting the runway lights. 200ft apart and I can see 12 of them - ergo 1/2 mile, ready to go. Counted 3 in front and 3 behind on his side and I had the same. Poped out into good VFR @ 100 ft. Flew to Edmonton, unfortunatly, the patient died a few days later. I felt desperate times called for desperate measures. Never did that again.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:25 pm

I really hate those patient that despite my best efforts have the bad taste to up and die on me. Bet you weren't flying that old husky that night?

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:54 pm

no Bandaid, I was in a Beech 200 off a 12000 ft runway with everything going for us.
As a besides, Even now, after a hard day or night's flying medivacs, I get home kinda tired but I still have a warm fuzzy feeling that maybe, in some small way, I brought a bit of relief to some poor suffering soul.

I asked an Edmonton doctor one night, "What did we do before we stared transporting patients by air" he said "We let them die".

Just had a bright thought as I sat here. The old Husky I flew was registered CF-SAQ. The Saskatchewan government had an air ambulance program in existance in 1959 when I learned to fly in Regina. They operated Cessna 195's and a Helio Courier, all carrying variations of CF-SA registrations. CF-SAV was one. They also had Norseman's CF-SAM, CF-SAN etc. Betcha SAQ was a medivac airplane, probibally in Northern Sask.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:34 pm

Little tidbit about SAQ: (found on the web at: http://ebushpilot.com/blasts.htm )

"Canada's first successful civil JATO demonstration took place on June 11, 1947 when a metal-bellied Fairchild Husky F-11 took 12 seconds to thunder into the sky over Cartierville, Quebec. Surprisingly, pilots D.D. Murphy and A.M. McKenzie reported only " ...a very slight sensation of acceleration." The tail had not been raised until Husky CF-SAQ reached 25 miles per hour."

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:50 pm

We have come a long ways. After a long day or night for me all I want to do is go home and not even think about work, it's just something I do to pay for the golf.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:01 pm

Griffon Thanks for the info. I have always been going to research more about the F 11 but you know etc etc. I definatley remember that SAQ had a button below the throttle quadrant marked JATO. Everyone who got into that old tank as I laboured across the water used to push it. Didn't do much though. Put about 500 hrs in SAQ.

ndb · Post by **ndb** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:17 am

In the USA, zero/zero takeoffs are actually legally permitted under 14 CFR part 91.

ASA120 · Post by **ASA120** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:19 am

About ten years ago I was flying a Beaver on wheel skis out of Summer Beaver Ontario. It was parked on the ice, and this was before the remote airstip was completed. About three o'clock in the morning I am surrounded by the locals hovering over my bed as they woke me up. After briefly freaking out and thinking that was it, I am toast, they have finally come from my head. They explained they had a very sick girl who needed to be medivaced to Webique, the remote nursing station then out to Sioux Lookout. I called Toronto for emergency authorization as we were a single engine day only operation at the time. I called for weather but what can the tell you with only an ASOS in Landsdowne House and a general trend for the weather from Big Trout and Fort Severn Ontario.

I got the plane ready gased it up all three tanks. The community created runway lights with the tail lights of the snowmobiles on the ice strip. There were either four or five of us on board, and we blasted off to Webique. Single engine night IFR/VFR, no GPS and only my map to lead the way. The Beaver didn't exactly have a great panel but enough to keep us straight and level. I was a little more worried about my own rust factor. However, if we didn't go this girl was going to die. If you have flown in Northern Ontario there aren't many lights to guide you along the way. No highways, and I don't think the ADF was working either. We overcame the low weather less then 1000 feet agl, and made it to Webique, where we were met by the nursing staff but no King Air for the long trip to Sioux Lookout. Apparently without the local altimeter setting the King Air could only go to enroute minimuns and did not land and diverted to Lansdowne House. The nursing crew explained I needed now to go to Lansdowne House. I believe the first leg was about 50 miles or 40 minutes in the Beaver. The leg down to Lansdowne House was going to be another 60 miles or about 45 minutes. So I called Toronto once again for emergency authority to once again take off to Lansdowne House.
After another nail biter we land in Lansdowne House with the King Air sitting on the ramp. We transfered the patient over with the crew looking at me like some sort of lost throwback from an earlier time, and I looked at them with a puzzling look myself. Two opposite ends of completely the same task to save this little girl. thankfully the doctor did save this patient.

Night Flying in a Beaver in winter is not only a little frightening, cold, and uncomfortable, it helps create a good amount of the leg shakes.

This post is only a single instance of two completely different views on what is need to complete a task. For the medivac company which flys medivacs every night, their task is simple. Professional, legal and consistent. They conduct their operations the same every night. For me, I started at a different vantage point. It is easier to takeoff then to land. I stayed VFR at a low alititude. I may not have had the legal VFR night weather minimuns but it was in uncontrolled airspace, I used the emergency authority to save this patients life.

Landing in weather that is stretching what you can do is completely different then taking off. However, what I believe makes Canadians the best aviators in the world, is their spirit and their resourcefullness. It isn't just a job, it is a commitment.

ndb · Post by **ndb** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:29 am

Hey, L*nce! I thought I recognized the location and name ... how are things going down south? You right or left seat now?

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:09 pm

Oldtimer, in your post you left out the part about the runway having PAR. Hell under those circumstances i'd most likely have gone too, especially if my destination was good.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:40 pm

Would not have required PAR. Bonnyville, 5 miles away was VFR. my comments were to remark on how my right seater, a cool dude and quick thinker, BS'd his way out of returning to the ramp. Bet the airforce are still out there trying to figure out what is wrong with their RVR. But you are right, unusual circumstances require unusual approaches, something that is difficult to regulate. Had an interesting happening years ago going thru Lubbock Texas. Altitude encoder was showing 500 ft below ground on their radar except I didn't have an encoder. Solution, called me a submarine. Solved the problem.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:03 pm

Actually, Bonnyville is a little further away than that; I spent 5 years in that hell hole, trust me, I know all too well. Can you tell I didn't enjoy it? But your point is taken.

The other option is to tell the tower, "i've got a critical patient in the back, if you deny a takeoff clearance i'll need to know your name so the survivors know who to sue." That should get you out in record time.