Hello Everyone,
I am currently about 1/2-2/3s of the way through my instructor rating. I have always wanted to instruct and as soon as I start instructing I play to get my aerobatic instructor rating and do that as well (although not full time).
In adition to the instructing I have always wanted to work for Borek. Ideally I would like to fly up north, down in Antartica as well as do a tour (or more) in the Maldives.
I know alot of places tend to dislike instructors because as the saying goes, "Once an instructor, always an instructor". With that being said, what are my chances that when it comes to looking for a job with Borek they will just toss my resumee out because I have been an instructor vs. anyone else with "real world" experience?
Will the fact that I want to get into the instructing side of aerobatics help my case our in anyway? With aerobatic instrucing requiring a fair bit more hands on flying than say teaching a commercial candidate to fly a cross country.
One more thing that I have that may help me out is just over 100 hours towing Gliders on a L-19.
Anyhow any feedback will be appreciate.
Cheers,
ZBBYLW
Borek after Instructing?
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Rudder Bug
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av8tor_assrope
- Rank 6
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:34 pm
Re: Borek after Instructing?
This sure helped me out when I was trying to get on with the ORANGE and black team. You can thank just curious for this.
Ohh and I couldn't tell you about instructors..I know we have them though.
Aside from 500TT group I IFR, floats...
* Current passport
* Police report
* Ability to acquire a security pass
As an aside, make sure you look good in black, since if are anywhere else in the system besides the 'Dives, that's what you will be wearing.
You should be very much into the CAP Gen, and should have some idea of how a PT-6 works.
There are a great many other little bits. I culled some of these from an old email I sent out a few years ago. They are still valid. Because they are cut and pasted, they may read as if I had substituted single malt for my morning coffee, but I didn't:
Borek hires for the Maldives and the Beechs require 500 hours. Others, the domestic otter operation do not have this carved in stone. Having said that, your competitors will have 500 plus hours. KBAL hires on a regular basis every month of the year.
The fall would be a bad time for you to apply. September every year, Yellowknife and LaRonge go through what I call the "Culling of the Herd", when many of the FO's who were on for the summer are punted. Rather than return them to ramp rat status, the companies often forward the names of some of the brighter lights to KBAL, for the Maldives. In October, Sean who has the final say in hiring, is getting ready for the Antarctic ops. He doesn't do any hiring interviewing or discussing of new hires until his return in December.
March through July are the best times for people who do not have a PPC to apply.
The key is to find a way to get a non-PPCed resume through to Sean. Walking in the front door won't do it. The Dragon Lady at the front desk will get fired if she lets a wannabe through to Sean. He's busy.
There are dozens of senior guys in the company who could take your resume in. But none of us see him more than a couple of times in a year. We are a pretty independent company, with each base run as its own fiefdom.
Your ramp rat/ dock rat experience will be a real plus. Knowing how to fuel, tow, tie knots, load aircraft are a real drawing card. They were for me.
Having an AVOP, a ramp pass, current Dangerous goods, first aid and whimis, a leatherman, worn work-gloves, a passport, and the contact handy for a driver's licence abstract/criminal records check are vital in beating out the competition. Few if any people bother to mention this sh*t, and it is the most time consuming aspect of a new-hires training .
An International Vaccination Booklet from the local public health office is handy.
Languages or a smattering thereof are handy as well. If you had a bit of Spanish/French/Arabic/Inuktitut dialect, or at least the ability to say: Hi, Bye, Thanks, Fill'er up...then that would be a good thing.
We operate currently, in: Burma, Nepal, The Maldives, Sri Lanka, the Antarctic (3 separate contracts), 5 Arctic bases, and the pop-up stuff.
Occasionally, some drivers are invited to attend one of the ground schools. A great many people get and blow this chance.How do they blow it, you ask? Easy- lack of preparation!
At the start of each ground school we give an entrance exam, well, two of them. One, DHC6 operational Knowledge, and the Second on IFR procedures and limitations. Then the ground school commences. After completion of the Ground school the "Invitees" are permitted to write the company exam. Oddly the invitees do not do as well as they could, through a lack of study.
Your course mates are going to vary between zero and 10000 hours on the machine, so you will be able to get a great deal of info out of the deal. Again, a lack of preparation is career death. Generally there is only one invitee per course.
A great many Borek drivers start out their mornings at Tim Hortons then proceed to work. The Port O'Call Best Western is near the place . The bar on the ground floor is the place where transient pilots who drink beer wind up. These places are good to meet, schmooze and network.
If you are not in Alberta, I have no ideas on creative resume presentations that could aid you. Cover letters that start out with "I want to flt of Kenn Borek because of my long and abiding love for Metros" will not be a great deal
of assistance in your endeavor.
Ohh and I couldn't tell you about instructors..I know we have them though.
Aside from 500TT group I IFR, floats...
* Current passport
* Police report
* Ability to acquire a security pass
As an aside, make sure you look good in black, since if are anywhere else in the system besides the 'Dives, that's what you will be wearing.
You should be very much into the CAP Gen, and should have some idea of how a PT-6 works.
There are a great many other little bits. I culled some of these from an old email I sent out a few years ago. They are still valid. Because they are cut and pasted, they may read as if I had substituted single malt for my morning coffee, but I didn't:
Borek hires for the Maldives and the Beechs require 500 hours. Others, the domestic otter operation do not have this carved in stone. Having said that, your competitors will have 500 plus hours. KBAL hires on a regular basis every month of the year.
The fall would be a bad time for you to apply. September every year, Yellowknife and LaRonge go through what I call the "Culling of the Herd", when many of the FO's who were on for the summer are punted. Rather than return them to ramp rat status, the companies often forward the names of some of the brighter lights to KBAL, for the Maldives. In October, Sean who has the final say in hiring, is getting ready for the Antarctic ops. He doesn't do any hiring interviewing or discussing of new hires until his return in December.
March through July are the best times for people who do not have a PPC to apply.
The key is to find a way to get a non-PPCed resume through to Sean. Walking in the front door won't do it. The Dragon Lady at the front desk will get fired if she lets a wannabe through to Sean. He's busy.
There are dozens of senior guys in the company who could take your resume in. But none of us see him more than a couple of times in a year. We are a pretty independent company, with each base run as its own fiefdom.
Your ramp rat/ dock rat experience will be a real plus. Knowing how to fuel, tow, tie knots, load aircraft are a real drawing card. They were for me.
Having an AVOP, a ramp pass, current Dangerous goods, first aid and whimis, a leatherman, worn work-gloves, a passport, and the contact handy for a driver's licence abstract/criminal records check are vital in beating out the competition. Few if any people bother to mention this sh*t, and it is the most time consuming aspect of a new-hires training .
An International Vaccination Booklet from the local public health office is handy.
Languages or a smattering thereof are handy as well. If you had a bit of Spanish/French/Arabic/Inuktitut dialect, or at least the ability to say: Hi, Bye, Thanks, Fill'er up...then that would be a good thing.
We operate currently, in: Burma, Nepal, The Maldives, Sri Lanka, the Antarctic (3 separate contracts), 5 Arctic bases, and the pop-up stuff.
Occasionally, some drivers are invited to attend one of the ground schools. A great many people get and blow this chance.How do they blow it, you ask? Easy- lack of preparation!
At the start of each ground school we give an entrance exam, well, two of them. One, DHC6 operational Knowledge, and the Second on IFR procedures and limitations. Then the ground school commences. After completion of the Ground school the "Invitees" are permitted to write the company exam. Oddly the invitees do not do as well as they could, through a lack of study.
Your course mates are going to vary between zero and 10000 hours on the machine, so you will be able to get a great deal of info out of the deal. Again, a lack of preparation is career death. Generally there is only one invitee per course.
A great many Borek drivers start out their mornings at Tim Hortons then proceed to work. The Port O'Call Best Western is near the place . The bar on the ground floor is the place where transient pilots who drink beer wind up. These places are good to meet, schmooze and network.
If you are not in Alberta, I have no ideas on creative resume presentations that could aid you. Cover letters that start out with "I want to flt of Kenn Borek because of my long and abiding love for Metros" will not be a great deal
of assistance in your endeavor.I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
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Bronco Billy
- Rank 3
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:04 pm
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Hey thanks alot for that post!
Lots of things making sens in there.
I am also a 'soon to become' flight instructor.
I am currently dispatch here in Montreal and these kind of descriptive post help us alot for our starting careers.
Bronco
Lots of things making sens in there.
I am also a 'soon to become' flight instructor.
I am currently dispatch here in Montreal and these kind of descriptive post help us alot for our starting careers.
Bronco
Last edited by Bronco Billy on Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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shower of sparks
- Rank 3
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:17 am
Re: Borek after Instructing?
good post av8or.
i understand the rotations are 2 wks in and 2 wks out. when you're done your rotation do you get flown back to your home town ie.: they'll fly you back to montreal after your 2 weeks and fly you bavk to your base? or do you have to make your way to calgary or something your self?
sos
i understand the rotations are 2 wks in and 2 wks out. when you're done your rotation do you get flown back to your home town ie.: they'll fly you back to montreal after your 2 weeks and fly you bavk to your base? or do you have to make your way to calgary or something your self?
sos
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av8tor_assrope
- Rank 6
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:34 pm
Re: Borek after Instructing?
No prob guys. As for commuting back to your hometown......it all depends on what you work out with the boss. It’s usually a combination of what you can bring to the table such as hours, PPC’s, where you live ect. Nothing is set in stone.
As for the rotations, I only have experience on the otter side but the company normally goes with a 2 in 2 out, or 3 in 3 out. The Dives ....6 months straight for FO’s.
KBAL’s motto is anytime, anywhere.....worldwide. Often contracts will change or new one’s pop up, guys get sick ect. You really need to be flexible.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
As for the rotations, I only have experience on the otter side but the company normally goes with a 2 in 2 out, or 3 in 3 out. The Dives ....6 months straight for FO’s.
KBAL’s motto is anytime, anywhere.....worldwide. Often contracts will change or new one’s pop up, guys get sick ect. You really need to be flexible.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
Re: Borek after Instructing?
very informative post
I have a request = how come get prepare for the 2 first exams ?? I have no twotter numbers neither system description available right now
is borek about to hire in the next weeks anybody ?
I have a request = how come get prepare for the 2 first exams ?? I have no twotter numbers neither system description available right now
is borek about to hire in the next weeks anybody ?
Re: Borek after Instructing?
While I am not a borek pilot, I would say that this part has changed in the past couple years. The YZF dhc-6 operators were getting too busy to lose any of their drivers, although this may be different this year. Borek was taking too many guys, so the CP's stopped forwarding names and in the case of one operator, instituted training bonds.
av8tor_assrope wrote:This sure helped me out when I was trying to get on with the ORANGE and black team. You can thank just curious for this.
The fall would be a bad time for you to apply. September every year, Yellowknife and LaRonge go through what I call the "Culling of the Herd", when many of the FO's who were on for the summer are punted. Rather than return them to ramp rat status, the companies often forward the names of some of the brighter lights to KBAL, for the Maldives.
Re: Borek after Instructing?
More info like the rest have posted. Hopefully it all helps.
New co-pilots on the beeches will require a move to calgary. If you're an otter driver or bring a bunch of experience or meet the capts. reqs, you can work a deal to be rotated from any major canadian city. The medevac side is 2 in 2 out. That does not mean two OFF. You can be called or asked to work on the time out and it does happen. The otter stuff in canada is usually 3 on 3 off, but in the summer time when people get hurt or sick or whatever.. be prepared for it to change and change fast. Most new hires will be put on a rotation to one of the canadian bases or sent to male. I'm sure JC knows the score for getting onto the antarctic program or polar shelf. The beech contracts are for guys who have stuck around for a while too. Lots of neat stuff going on.
Instructing time is still time, we have a few ex-instructors on the beech side that I know of, however they had the reqs. to be made capts in short order. Your best bet is to apply. On the otter side they hire everyone.. from 250hrs to 2000hrs for cojoes. The beeches are 500TT.. but again, as everyone else mentioned, there are no hard and fast rules at borek.
As for the exams and the training programs, it's all been changed around recently. The initial otter and king air 100 groundschools are well taught, but the exams at the end are stringent. Know your CAP GEN, IFR procedures and rules and be on top of all the company SOP's and follow along and you'll do just fine. Previous PT6 knowledge/experience is almost a must, but I did it and I'd never flown a turbine before I got on with them and I did have to study my bag off when the other guys were off socializing.
Its slow in the industry right now, so I don't think they'll be hiring FO's anytime soon. But again.. never hurts to apply. I sent an updated resume in every few months for close to three years. Having an insider helps as does SOLID references and all the previously mentioned paperwork ready to go.
If you can adapt and roll with whatever happens. It's a fantastic place to work. Interesting locales, good people, solid machines and lots of variety and possibilities. But it is not foreveryone.
I'm sure happy to be here and don't see myself going anywhere else . LTD
New co-pilots on the beeches will require a move to calgary. If you're an otter driver or bring a bunch of experience or meet the capts. reqs, you can work a deal to be rotated from any major canadian city. The medevac side is 2 in 2 out. That does not mean two OFF. You can be called or asked to work on the time out and it does happen. The otter stuff in canada is usually 3 on 3 off, but in the summer time when people get hurt or sick or whatever.. be prepared for it to change and change fast. Most new hires will be put on a rotation to one of the canadian bases or sent to male. I'm sure JC knows the score for getting onto the antarctic program or polar shelf. The beech contracts are for guys who have stuck around for a while too. Lots of neat stuff going on.
Instructing time is still time, we have a few ex-instructors on the beech side that I know of, however they had the reqs. to be made capts in short order. Your best bet is to apply. On the otter side they hire everyone.. from 250hrs to 2000hrs for cojoes. The beeches are 500TT.. but again, as everyone else mentioned, there are no hard and fast rules at borek.
As for the exams and the training programs, it's all been changed around recently. The initial otter and king air 100 groundschools are well taught, but the exams at the end are stringent. Know your CAP GEN, IFR procedures and rules and be on top of all the company SOP's and follow along and you'll do just fine. Previous PT6 knowledge/experience is almost a must, but I did it and I'd never flown a turbine before I got on with them and I did have to study my bag off when the other guys were off socializing.
Its slow in the industry right now, so I don't think they'll be hiring FO's anytime soon. But again.. never hurts to apply. I sent an updated resume in every few months for close to three years. Having an insider helps as does SOLID references and all the previously mentioned paperwork ready to go.
If you can adapt and roll with whatever happens. It's a fantastic place to work. Interesting locales, good people, solid machines and lots of variety and possibilities. But it is not foreveryone.
I'm sure happy to be here and don't see myself going anywhere else . LTD
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Rowdy wrote: If you can adapt and roll with whatever happens. It's a fantastic place to work. Interesting locales, good people, solid machines and lots of variety and possibilities. But it is not foreveryone.
I'm sure happy to be here and don't see myself going anywhere else . LTD
I'm jalous...!
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VintageSky
- Rank 0
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- Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:00 pm
- Location: Westerly
Re: Borek after Instructing?
I thought somebody mentioned they might be laying off? Any truth to that?
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Thomas Magnum
- Rank 1
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- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:51 pm
Re: Borek after Instructing?
I've been told that they're still hiring. Couple of training captains said that Male has a fairly high turn over...
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Turnover in male can be quite high.. I'm waiting for an open spot myself there right now.. seems they're well staffed at the moment. I'm guessing the 6 month tours are a bit much for some folk
Haven't heard anything else.
Haven't heard anything else.
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KenoraPilot
- Rank 8
- Posts: 904
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:34 pm
- Location: 'berta
Re: Borek after Instructing?
6 months is long but it goes by fast and if the staffing numbers weren't sooo god damn high you would be pulling down 100+ hours a month! I was when I first got down there, then they decided the Dives was a dumping ground for all the F/O's! There are currently 40 first officers and 41 Captains for 26 aircraft! When i was there it was great, we were flying our bags off but it was great! Not to knock it though, the dives was a great 6 months and I learned alot from those guys! The otter is my favorite plane ever! Good luck and hopefuly you'll get there!
Re: Borek after Instructing?
you guys are making me miss the north...
There is however one piece of advice I can give instructors joining the Borek ranks - your their to learn, not to teach. You may have 2000+ hours of instructing time, but you may (or may not) be ready for a 6 month upgrade. Go thier with an open mind, and readyness to work and you'll have a blast.
There is however one piece of advice I can give instructors joining the Borek ranks - your their to learn, not to teach. You may have 2000+ hours of instructing time, but you may (or may not) be ready for a 6 month upgrade. Go thier with an open mind, and readyness to work and you'll have a blast.
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Thanks to everyone who has replied so far, hopefully I will see some of you in the future!
Cheers,
ZBBYLW
Cheers,
ZBBYLW
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'effin hippie
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:44 pm
- Location: Further..further...ok, too far...
Re: Borek after Instructing?
KAG x 2
Doesn't matter what time of the year you apply. Just apply. And listen, much as it pains me to say this, to Rowdy.
Every job I ever had (4 now) I was hired mid-winter, half of them just to cover holidays. Companies over-cull in fall, there's always one douche who misses mommy and doesn't like whatever shitty thing he has to do as an FO. Lots of people want vacation around the holidays.
It's more hit and miss, for sure, but I can say from experience that looking hard over the winter pays off.
ef
Doesn't matter what time of the year you apply. Just apply. And listen, much as it pains me to say this, to Rowdy.
Every job I ever had (4 now) I was hired mid-winter, half of them just to cover holidays. Companies over-cull in fall, there's always one douche who misses mommy and doesn't like whatever shitty thing he has to do as an FO. Lots of people want vacation around the holidays.
It's more hit and miss, for sure, but I can say from experience that looking hard over the winter pays off.
ef
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just curious
- Rank Moderator
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Re: Borek after Instructing?
Painful I know, but Rowdy's almost persuaded me that the Otter is the way to go...And listen, much as it pains me to say this, to Rowdy
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Awww ef, I knew you missed me man
The mighty money maker IS the way to go JC. don't let any of the beech.. uhh... "people in comfortable shoes" tell you otherwise!
Same goes for anywhere you WANT to work. Do your research, make sure it's what you want and then go after it with all you've got. You'll get there eventually
The mighty money maker IS the way to go JC. don't let any of the beech.. uhh... "people in comfortable shoes" tell you otherwise!
Same goes for anywhere you WANT to work. Do your research, make sure it's what you want and then go after it with all you've got. You'll get there eventually
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'effin hippie
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Re: Borek after Instructing?
Rowdy wrote:don't let any of the beech.. uhh... "people in comfortable shoes" tell you otherwise!
Well said Rowdy. Say arent you still one of those uhhh beech "people in comfortable shoes"
Last edited by Shep on Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Otter pilots have comfortable shoes...they're called SORELS!!
Cheers,
ETTW
Cheers,
ETTW
1. The company pays me to make money for it.
2. If the company doesn't make money neither do I
3. I still hate simulators
2. If the company doesn't make money neither do I
3. I still hate simulators
Re: Borek after Instructing?
ettw wrote:Otter pilots have comfortable shoes...they're called SORELS!!
Cheers,
ETTW
True. When are you back to this great white paradise?
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Not quite true. Most Borek otter pilots don't know what any type of footwear is except the occasional sandals.Shep wrote:ettw wrote:Otter pilots have comfortable shoes...they're called SORELS!!
Cheers,
ETTW
What little I do know is either not important or I've forgotten it!
Transport Canada's mission statement: We're not happy until you're not happy
Transport Canada's mission statement: We're not happy until you're not happy
Re: Borek after Instructing?
Lost Lake wrote:Not quite true. Most Borek otter pilots don't know what any type of footwear is except the occasional sandals.Shep wrote:ettw wrote:Otter pilots have comfortable shoes...they're called SORELS!!
Cheers,
ETTW
Oh really??? I would think your toes would be a little cold wearing sandals in places like YFB YRB YRT YEV or Antarctica.
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flyinthebug
- Rank (9)
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Re: Borek after Instructing?
ZBBYLW... This is all solid information you are receiving. KBAL is a fantastic place to work and they will value your instructor time..as you will fly with some of the best capt`s in North America there and will learn from the best. Just follow the above advice and you too will get your shot at KBAL.
Rowdy, I taught your 100 groundschool so your comment on it being "well taught".., i`ll take as a compliment! Hope things are still going great for you there!
The rotation isnt for everyone, but KBAL is full of great people and ALL their aircraft are very well maintained (even the ugly ones lol)
Good luck with your career ZBBYLW!
Fly safe all, Cheers.
Rowdy, I taught your 100 groundschool so your comment on it being "well taught".., i`ll take as a compliment!
Hope things are still going great for you there! The rotation isnt for everyone, but KBAL is full of great people and ALL their aircraft are very well maintained (even the ugly ones lol)
Good luck with your career ZBBYLW!
Fly safe all, Cheers.
