Does anyone know if CMA still starts their First Officers at $22,500/year?

If so, I can make more by staying on EI then taking a job with them.

Taken from: http://www1.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/ei/ ... .shtml#How

How much can I receive?
The basic benefit rate is 55% of your average insured earnings up to a yearly maximum insurable amount of $42,300. This means you can receive a maximum payment of $447 per week. Your EI payment is a taxable income, meaning federal and provincial or territorial, if it applies, taxes will be deducted.

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Could CMA be considered working EI, to tide you over until you get a real job?

This post was more to make light of CMA's attrocious payscale. I am not looking for a job with them nor am I on EI (although times are a changin'). I just find it ridiculous that the govenment offers more for temporary financial assistance than what CMA expects their employees to live off annually.

How much time are you building on EI?

Don't like the pay, don't apply. I'd suspect that the low end of the scale relates to 200hr guys/gals who have few other options.. I'm sure that if you show up with some experience, the pay would be better..
Also, the 'greater' pay with EI assumes that your starting salary was considerably larger than 22,5 to start..

And, how many EI positions will end up with you getting an interview at WJ/Cathay/AC/Jazz etc...

Cancelgar,

I know what you're getting at but I think the National Poverty Level would be a better comparison. What is it for singles and families in all of the areas where CMA has pilots based?

447*50wks=22350 150$ less than CMA, however a low time guy is paid for his experience

Quote: “And, how many EI positions will end up with you getting an interview at WJ/Cathay/AC/Jazz etc...”

Many people on this forum seem to think that every person who chooses to become a professional pilot intends to fly for a major airline and merely uses all other air operators as stepping stones. Not so! Since the “white collar” pilot jobs (airline and corporate) make up only 15% of the total Canadian professional pilot market it is obvious that most professional pilots will not become “airline” pilots. Apart from this there are many pilots who entered the occupation with the goal of eventually finding a decent permanent non-airline pilot job. They do not want perpetual inter-continental travel and living in hotels. These jobs are few and far between because of the almost antagonistic attitude of smaller operators towards pilots. Such operators have a high turnover of pilots because they are useful only as stepping stones- while holding one’s nose.

A lucky few pilots find permanent jobs with the very few decent float operators, fire fighting or the few decent charter and medevac operators. The rest have to put up with poor pay, endless BS, operators who ignore the terms and conditions of employment, safety lapses and Chief Pilots who are either inexperienced and got the job because nobody else was qualified or who are bitter and twisted because they failed to make it to a major airline and have had to settle for something that they consider to be less desirable.

These smaller operators, including commuter operations, could obtain staff stability and cut their costs if they set out to attract AND RETAIN older, more mature and more responsible pilots. Their recruiting and training costs would drop and so would their operating costs because they would have people who were there for the long term and who looked after the equipment. There are many such pilots available. Pay them properly and treat them properly instead of having the attitude that pilots are a dime a dozen and can be treated with contempt.

According to TC personnal Licensing summary, there are 11315 ATPLs in Force in Canada and 8070 CPLs in force.

According to Airline Pilot Central, the "airlines" that have listed stats (Air Canada, Jazz, WestJet, Transat, Canjet and First Air) have a total of 6369 pilots. This does not numbers from airlines that are not listed such as Sunwing, Skyservice or Porter. I've also not included stats from Calm Air, CargoJet or Air Lab.

I think that in looking at these stats, it's important to mostly consider the number for the ATPL. I think that for the most part, even pilots who don't aspire to an airline job will have obtained an ATPL, although I am sure that there are some who will never get one and are content not to.

So looking at the number of ATPLs as compared to the number of 'airline' pilots, more than 56% of Canadian ATPLs fly for a Canadian Airline.

So I guess the question is. If you do aspire to an airline position. Have no seat right now. Low time. You have now been offered a position with CMA. Its not flying, but will be in 1-2 years. Pay is obviously not great but its about equal with what you got now, and rent is cheaper where they want you to go. Do you take it, and buckle down waiting for that 1900 slot in this industry or do you hope that with spring/ summer the hiring gets better and look for something with better money/ lower wait time or no wait time. Cause so far i don't think the compaints have been its a bad company but just a bad paying company (which we all know)

Keep things in perspective. Why would the salary be so low? Basically cause there are more applicants than first time jobs. Supply and demand. The dream of flying creates a lot of first timers. Many never find the jobs. CMA has no problem filling there planes with co-joes.

As for the question should someone take the admin job at an airline with the perspective of a 1900 spot in one year to two..... or wait for summer float work. That depends. The longer from the industry you get the more out of date you are. If you take the job the admin job you see the workings of an airline. If you get an offer "flying" in the summer you can take it and leave the admin job. A "flying" job always trumps a desk job.

The guys who go from the Ramp/Dispatch to the 1900, how do they get upgraded if they only have the minimum PIC time from their CPL? The low time program usually has guys who have 250hrs with their IATRA. Let's say you wait the 1-2yrs, and then you get on. How would you ever become captain with just Co-jo time? How do you get your ATPL with no PIC?

Freddy_Francis wrote:The guys who go from the Ramp/Dispatch to the 1900, how do they get upgraded if they only have the minimum PIC time from their CPL? The low time program usually has guys who have 250hrs with their IATRA. Let's say you wait the 1-2yrs, and then you get on. How would you ever become captain with just Co-jo time? How do you get your ATPL with no PIC?

Rent a plane? PIC under supervision?? Theres a way, lots have done it!

well i currently hold 250 PIC, so i believe i'm just short my 100 hours night and 25 xc night pic (which as stated above could be supervised PIC) If I were in the market for the job.

The emphasis above seems to be on F/O pay. What do they pay their captains?

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... n_air.html


Remember if it's on the internet it has to be true!

Im not 100% sure last time this was updated, it says on the page Oct 2008.

Thanks Freddy. Starting pay for Captains is also low. There are Navajo Captain jobs that start at considerably more than a first year Beech 1900 Captain at CMA.
It's interesting to see how the Captain's scale goes up with the years. Do they have any 10+ years Captains or is the top end of the scale just wishful thinking?