Guess What! - Canadian North Flight 466/467 cancelled again!

[Mad Flying Ace]

Well, as I sit here in Inuvik, I count back through the last year how many times Flight 466/467 has been canceled, and I'm afraid I've run out of fingers and will be shortly running out of toes.

Its a shame really. This time they are calling it a mechanical. I guess they have to call it that or weather - but the weather is far too good today to call it weather.

My guess is the economics of life are catching up again, and now are canceling the sections that are a loss. So why don't they just cancel the flight outright.

And if it really is a mechanical - maybe time to get those 737-300 we all heard about 6 months ago going? Lot's of talk, not much materializing now - guess the recession will stop that.

Yep - I'm ranting - there's a bunch of us up here in Inuvik who get our hopes up every time they say Flight 466/467 is a go - cuz we might actually meet our connections to actually get home. Actually, what am I talking about - even the On-Time-Performance is crap - oh right - its cuz it's the Arctic. My Bad!

Rant over.

regards,
Mad Flying Ace

[deflux]

There must be a decent alternative on first air??

[Mad Flying Ace]

First air comes up later in the day - which is just after the later flight of Canadian North Flight 444/445.

Point of my original post is that they should just competely get rid of flight 466/467 cuz it's just a complete loss of revenue these days to the company.

And it pisses a bunch of us off!

MFA

[matrix]

Hey Mad Flying Ace,

Just curious, are you paying full fare for these flights?

[Mad Flying Ace]

I don't pay for it, the company I work for does.

MFA

[student_Aviator77]

Yeah I paid $1852.55 +gst for a 2 week advance fare at Christmas from Iqaluit to Ottawa return! That is their best fare available They had gone mechanical for the 2 days before my flight so they just had a full configuaration on my flight, first time I've ever seen that! maybe 85 seats! Seems like every flight I'm on (with 40 seats), alot of people still have their own row so I guess that explains the fares. Maybe if the aircraft were slightly smaller and more efficient the prices would go down? The only thing I really like about 5T flights is the aircraft, crew and a hot meal, also it's the only way off this island so I am always in good spirits when I have a 5T flight. I just hate paying for it! I don't undrstand why they have such high frequencies of flights anyway. I think YFB and YEV should get one jet service every second or thrid day to save them some maintenance and fuel. I guess there is sufficient cargo to jusify it but then that doesn't explain the fares. Either way, I'm only paying for a one-way fare out of here this spring and never paying it again.

[185/310]

If your having such a problem like most people are on Canadian North, then maybe you should travel on First Air. I know the prices are very comparable, and the inflight service is very similar as well, but if a First Air flight is cancelled due to mechanical, they normally have another airplane to place on that run so the passengers and freight gets there that day. Canadian North dosent have that luxury. If for some reason First Air dosent have a aircraft for that run that went mechanical and the loads are high they will sometimes charter another company such as Skyservice to get the flight done. I dont know how much truth there is with this, but I did hear at times Canadian North would cancel certain flights because there machine was busy doing charters. Who knows they may have more aircraft now that they lost a big contract for there 737's. Canadian North cant be making too much money on freight cause they dont have the food mail contract, First Air does. The only thing Canadian North transports as far as freight goes is general freight.

[tincanflyer]

WHO CARES???!!!.....what a waste of a post!.....flights get cancelled all the time!

[Niteflyer]

MFA, do you actually have any understanding of the industry or are you on here just to increase the number of posts you have put up?

Flights get cancelled all the time. Flights to and from the north are expensive (although you aren't paying for the ticket anyways). First Air is in competition with Canadian North and they fly the same type of airplanes. They are older airplanes and unique to their type of operation. Guess what? They break. I'm sure that whatever operation you are involved in has airplanes that break. Companies sometimes run out of crews. The weather at the departure point goes down.

You guys really need to get out of the north or get a hobby that doesn't involve sitting near the window waiting for the silky whisper of the JT8D's leaving town.

[just curious]

You guys really need to get out of the north or get a hobby that doesn't involve sitting near the window waiting for the silky whisper of the JT8D's leaving town.

We actually require an aircraft for part one of your suggestion. MFA's, as well as my previous hobby was writing reference letters for 25% of Cdn North's newer FO's.

We have actually a pretty fair understanding of duty days, weather requirements and MELs. What we are suggesting is that 444/445 and 466/467 have disparate rates of dispatch reliability. Triple four is about 98%, and 466/7 isn't even 50%.

[FICU]

If 446/467 gets canceled does 5T put you on 444/445? Is your southern conncetion still doable when flying on 444/445?

I have spent a lot of time flying in the north and one thing for the life of me that I don't understand are people who live/work in the north and travel south with connecting flights out of southern airport that depart within an hour of their northen flight arriving.

Due to the challenges of the north, especially in the winter, why wouldn't you give yourself a day afer arriving in the south to make your connection? I don't know how many times I have been asked if a pax will make their connection in the south when their connection departs 30 to 45 minutes after our scheduled arrival. These people have no idea that a slight delay will cause them to miss their connection. Pay the cash for a night in a hotel and have piece of mind that you will make your connection.

If it creates a lost day off then that's just part of working in the north and living in the south.

Why not call 5T and ask them about their distaptch problems. It will probably get you father than bitching about it here.

[Howitzer]

Bucktooth

It's mechanical today my friend.

PS You should leave the Arctic, it's really putting the "Mad" in Mad Flying Ace for you.

[just curious]

If 446/467 gets canceled does 5T put you on 444/445? Is your southern conncetion still doable when fling on 444/445?

The counter staff in YEV knock themselves out for us routinely. And yes, some east west connections are still doable. The problem is that due to the extreme unreliability of 467, we routinely book 445 with the understanding that connections are tough, on days when 445 is loaded, and 467 is iffy. If 467 could pull itself to say an on-time/ non-cancellation rate of say 75%, I for one would be happy to sit in YEG for 3 or four hours to make a connection. As it is now, I book a room and put up up with Leduc (Like Inuvik, but colder, less trees, and a strip mall!) for a night.

I have spent a lot of time flying in the north and one thing for the life of me that I don't understand are people who live/work in the north and travel south with connecting flights out of southern airport that depart within a few hours of their northen flight arriving.

I don't take any connection less than an hour, usually two. When I can't make a connection that's four hours from 467's sked arrival, that's an indication that something is structurally wrong with the schedule. I understand wx days, and don't count them in this little diatribe.

Due to the challenges of the north, especially in the winter, why wouldn't you give yourself a day afer arriving in the south to make your connection? I don't know how many times I have been asked if a pax will make their connection in the south when their connection departs 30 to 45 minutes after our scheduled arrival. These people have no idea that a slight delay will cause them to miss their connection. Pay the cash for a night in a hotel and have piece of mind that you will make your connection.

See above.

If it creates a lost day off then that's just part of working in the north and living in the south.

Actually, I've been living and working in the North for the last 20 years. The reason this thread keeps recurring is because this hasn't been a part of living and working in the north. Until 467's inception.

Try and understand this: We like Canadian North. We know and have flown with, a fair chunk of your pilots. We know and like most of your ground staff. This however, is one flight that requires closer examination. If it doesn't pay, fine, discontinue it. If it does, and the company wants to make a go of it, then a closer examination of the reasons for it's poor dispatch reliability is merited.

[Tango Romeo]

Keep in mind, operating in the North is far different than any envrionment. Flights are frequently cancelled in that area, nevertheless if this is a re-occuring issue with 5T fly with First Air instead.

There are options out there!

Tango-

[Rowdy]

Keep in mind, operating in the North is far different than any envrionment. Flights are frequently cancelled in that area, nevertheless if this is a re-occuring issue with 5T fly with First Air instead.

There are options out there!

Tango-

Wow thanks tips! I love you guys that just post randomly without reading any of the other posts. We KNOW the area, we know the conditions, we know the operation and most of the crews. We're wondering why the airline keeps operating a flight that is constantly cancelled. Two flights a day into a small community such as YEV seems a bit of a stretch when it comes to making $$ right...

And yes, there is also first air to consider.. and air north in the hhaaaaawwwwkker

[Tango Romeo]

Rowdy

Not necessarily, look at 7F, the other day they operated 3 flights into Cambridge Bay. Mind you they were operating the ATR 42's but Rowdy, can you honestly expect someone to post the actual reason why a flight had been cancelled unless it is the obvious (ie weather)??

C'mon!!!

Tango-

PS - Read the posts!!!

[FICU]

Keep in mind, operating in the North is far different than any envrionment. Flights are frequently cancelled in that area, nevertheless if this is a re-occuring issue with 5T fly with First Air instead.

Sometimes it doesn't matter if you are on sked or not... arrive into YZF 30 minutes early and you can end up departing 15 minutes or more late due to the ridiculous security screening there... 1 line/1 screening machine and 2 Boeings to depart... YZF is the place where on time skeds go to die!

7F isn't immune to this either.

JC... 466/467 is a Calgary based run... I'd contact someone at 5T and voice your concern.

[Mad Flying Ace]

wow - sorry i missed all the rebutal posts today - kinda got stuck going through the hoops and hurdles required to go through when going south on Flight 445.

As Just Curious said above - don't think I need to add anything else.

Fly safe.

Mad Flying Ace

[just curious]

And yes, there is also first air to consider.. and air north in the hhaaaaawwwwkker

No, Rowdy, there isn't. Just like girls from the hill country of Appalachia, we dance with the one who brung us. Aside from providing passenger feed, our job is to provide 5T with grizzled northern pilots.

By the time we get you grizzled, 5T will be hiring again. Hopefully they'll have changed over to real leather flying jackets, and not those metrosexual car coats they wear, but... that' ll be time for another rant.

For the 5T guys, we know you just drive'em, and we're glad you do. We're just hoping that one friday or monday, hopefully next monday, when the Voodoo witch doctor/ scheduler rolls the chicken bones, the weather, generators, airport security, & crew sked, all go insane on the YOW side of the operation. It's their turn.

So, with all that out of the way, tell us... does the sim in Vegas really have a slot machine?

JC

[Rowdy]

I'll pass on 5T. Airline life is not for me you know JC. That and I'd hafta live in deadmonton or calgary again. No thanks!

Keep yer hopes up boys. Maybe she'll actually come in on friday

[Meatservo]

Wow. Maybe before presuming to lecture guys like MFA and JC on the tribulations and iniquities of living and flying in the far north, you young fu*ktards ought to try actually doing it. Being an F.O. on a caravan in Pickle lake or darting in and out of Cambridge in a king air doesn't count. You try doing your rotation in Inuvik or Rankin or Resolute and see how much you like staying an extra day when your ride home can't get their act together and then lies about it. It doesn't matter if the company or the individual is paying for the ticket. If they didn't personally pay for it, then it's part of the contract and it's their ticket anyway. They are perfectly entitled to rant about it here. It's no stupider than the sh!t the rest of you post on a daily basis.

[FICU]

I've done rotations in the arctic, including Rankin, and have been stuck during a multi-day blow that hits when my day to go home comes up. Delays in the north, be it wx or mechanical are nothing more than part of the job when you love to fly in the north but want to live in the south.

If you want to make it home on time, every time, then stay in the south... but you won't have as much fun

[Changes in Latitudes]

Wow. Maybe before presuming to lecture guys like MFA and JC on the tribulations and iniquities of living and flying in the far north, you young fu*ktards ought to try actually doing it. Being an F.O. on a caravan in Pickle lake or darting in and out of Cambridge in a king air doesn't count. You try doing your rotation in Inuvik or Rankin or Resolute and see how much you like staying an extra day when your ride home can't get their act together and then lies about it. It doesn't matter if the company or the individual is paying for the ticket. If they didn't personally pay for it, then it's part of the contract and it's their ticket anyway. They are perfectly entitled to rant about it here. It's no stupider than the sh!t the rest of you post on a daily basis.

Amen, Amen, Amen. There are a lot of things you can mess with in a pilot's life and we pretty much take. But you start messing with our trip out of a northern rotation, frustrations flare up quickly. I say vent away, I know the feeling, it's a mountain of stress.

[dune]

Now that you have that -6 PPC, make your way down to MLE! Plenty of jets out.. but the beaches keep you here

[Red Line]

You try doing your rotation in Inuvik or Rankin or Resolute and see how much you like staying an extra day when your ride home can't get their act together and then lies about it.

haha we used to love spending the extra night in YEV or YVQ on the way home! we were just glad to get out of YGH or YWJ for 2 weeks. mind you, we had to pay for our own tickets though...