Obama ends program that let pilots carry guns

[Prospect]

Obama secretly ends program that let pilots carry guns

After the September 11 attacks, commercial airline pilots were allowed to carry guns if they completed a federal-safety program. No longer would unarmed pilots be defenseless as remorseless hijackers seized control of aircraft and rammed them into buildings.

Now President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology.

The Obama administration this past week diverted some $2 million from the pilot training program to hire more supervisory staff, who will engage in field inspections of pilots.

This looks like completely unnecessary harassment of the pilots. The 12,000 Federal Flight Deck Officers, the pilots who have been approved to carry guns, are reported to have the best behavior of any federal law enforcement agency. There are no cases where any of them has improperly brandished or used a gun. There are just a few cases where officers have improperly used their IDs.

Fewer than one percent of the officers have any administrative actions brought against them and, we are told, virtually all of those cases “are trumped up.”

Take a case against one flight officer who had visited the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles within the last few weeks. While there, the pilot noticed that federal law enforcement officers can, with the approval of a superior, obtain a license plate that cannot be traced, a key safety feature for law enforcement personnel. So the pilot asked if, as a member of the federal program, he was eligible. The DMV staffer checked and said “no.” The next day administrative actions were brought against the pilot for “misrepresenting himself.” These are the kinds of cases that President Obama wants to investigate.

Since Mr. Obama's election, pilots have told us that the approval process for letting pilots carry guns on planes slowed significantly. Last week the problem went from bad to worse. Federal Flight Deck Officers - the pilots who have been approved to carry guns - indicate that the approval process has stalled out.

Pilots cannot openly speak about the changing policies for fear of retaliation from the Transportation Security Administration. Pilots who act in any way that causes a “loss of confidence” in the armed pilot program risk criminal prosecution as well as their removal from the program. Despite these threats, pilots in the Federal Flight Deck Officers program have raised real concerns in multiple interviews.

Arming pilots after Sept. 11 was nothing new. Until the early 1960s, American commercial passenger pilots on any flight carrying U.S. mail were required to carry handguns. Indeed, U.S. pilots were still allowed to carry guns until as recently as 1987. There are no records that any of these pilots (either military or commercial) ever causing any significant problems.

Screening of airplane passengers is hardly perfect. While armed marshals are helpful, the program covers less than 3 percent of the flights out of Washington D.C.'s three airports and even fewer across the country. Sky marshals are costly and quit more often than other law-enforcement officers.

Armed pilots are a cost-effective backup layer of security. Terrorists can only enter the cockpit through one narrow entrance, and armed pilots have some time to prepare themselves as hijackers penetrate the strengthened cockpit doors. With pilots, we have people who are willing to take on the burden of protecting the planes for free. About 70 percent of the pilots at major American carriers have military backgrounds.

Frankly, as a matter of pure politics, we cannot understand what the administration is thinking. Nearly 40 House Democrats are in districts were the NRA is more popular than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. We can't find any independent poll in which the public is demanding that pilots disarm. Why does this move make sense?

Only anti-gun extremists and terrorist recruits are worried about armed pilots. So why is the Obama administration catering to this tiny lobby at the expense of public safety?

[Sulako]

Remember the Captain who shot his own Airbus a while back?

That sure was cool.

There is zero need for guns on board an aircraft - the risks of hitting a pax or a vital part of the aircraft are too great. Barricaded cockpit doors and proactive pax are a few of the significant changes that have happened since 9/11 and to the best of my knowledge there hasn't been a hijacking of a commercial airliner in North America since then.

[anonymity]

In stark contrast to an op-ed article in today’s edition (March 17, 2009) of the Washington Times, that claims “…President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology,” TSA officials reassured ALPA they are committed to the FFDO program and have plans for its expansion.

Got this in my e-mail this morning, seems like the media is at it again. Must be a slow day

[linecrew]

...now if could just pull the reigns on his Customs services power trippers then Canadians might not feel like criminals when visiting the US.

[. ._]

Flying a plane is dangerous enough. We don't need another thing that can kill us in the cockpit.

I say good move, Barack! Good CHANGE!



-istp

[Cat Driver]

Obama being a true bleeding heart will probably transfer the prisoners from Guantanamo Bay directly into the TSA to ensure there is a balance of cultures within the agency.

[pointyertoes]

Obama being a true bleeding heart will probably transfer the prisoners from Guantanamo Bay directly into the TSA to ensure there is a balance of cultures within the agency.

...at least they'd be a great deal more competent than the 20 Watters they have right now running the checkpoints. And besides, those Gitmo prisoners now have some serious experience about how REAL security is done. (Who knows, some of those guys probably were security guards for Al Qaida at some cave complex somewhere.)

But seriously, how many years has the FFDO program been running? In what tangible way has it added to security? Guns have been LOST because pilots cannot take the weapons through security themselves. At least 1 accidental discharge in the cockpit because of an idiodic procedure when one pilot leaves the flight deck. This program was a disaster waiting to happen.

I hope Obama puts the money into screening ground staff, air cargo and mail, THE REAL risk areas in commercial aviation.

[Cat Driver]

For sure Obama is a polar shift from Bush, it should be interesting to see how it plays out.

I love his new idea of having war vets pay for their war injuries through their own medical plans.

Maybe he is on to something there because that might be the way to end wars, make the soldiers pay for getting shot in a war.

[Skyhunter]

I am speaking of one who has flown with a pistol on my person while flying, fairly often. It is not that big a deal if you have the proper training.

The right Wing red neck is going to come out here, and probably upset some of the left wing tree huggers among you. So be it.

I actually believe the opposite to most posts here. It should almost be mandatory to be armed in the cockpit. No hijacks in N.A. since 9/11. Maybe part (not all, yes the doors etc are probably a bigger part) of the reason is because people know the pilots could be armed. Sometimes it is not the actual use of force, its the knowledge by others that force could be used.

For those of you flying in more remote area's it would also double as a survival weapon. One that would probably still be on your person in you had a mishap. I know I for one if I found myself in the middle of nowhere with a wrecked aircraft and not sure when help was coming would want a firearm on my person.

Given the choice I would have one, without any doubt. Is the training that big a deal? If you can learn to fly an airplane and be trusted with multi million dollar equipment learning to safely handle a firearm is not a big step.

*Waiting for the flaming to start*

[just curious]

We have bears up here. We have guns up here. Nothing new for us.

[Cat Driver]

Skyhunter has it correct.

I flew for years with a 357 Magnum in a holster and never ever had any problems.....I always knew that if something went wrong my survival weapon was where I could find it.

I still have my old permit to carry with all the info on it including the serial number of my 357. ( The permit is no longer valid of course because of Canada's goofy gun laws. )

[Invertago]

Pilots with guns... picture everyone here on avcanada with a gun... in the same big room talking about politics...


I rest my case.

[iflyforpie]

I'll be the sniper!

[Jastapilot]

Pilots with guns... picture everyone here on avcanada with a gun... in the same big room talking about politics...


I rest my case.

I doubt there'd be much flaming and trolling going. Probably would be a little more respectful. We should try it.

[RatherBeFlyingInCanada]

Skyhunter has it correct.

I flew for years with a 357 Magnum in a holster and never ever had any problems.....I always knew that if something went wrong my survival weapon was where I could find it.

I still have my old permit to carry with all the info on it including the serial number of my 357. ( The permit is no longer valid of course because of Canada's goofy gun laws. )

Are handguns still legal to carry on a/c? Were they ever legal?

[Skyhunter]

It is legal if they will give you a carry permit. I doubt that they would issue one for it though. It is a grey area and at the discretion of the firearms folks. There is room in the laws to issue a carry permit for self defense and survival. It is just very rarely ever approved by our authorities.

The carrying I have done was all military related. Flying an armed jet with missles and a cannon, the addition of a pistol is not really that exceptional, and at times mandated. Don't fall under any civilian rules for that.

That beings said, I would still favour properly trained civilian pilots carrying!

[Cat Driver]

Are handguns still legal to carry on a/c?

Not without a permit.

Were they ever legal?

Up until around 1974 I think it was we could get a permit to carry a hand gun as a survival weapon in the north, I got mine in Whitehorse and carried until they changed the law.

I still have it somewhere in my "stuff "

[NorthSky]

A firearm in the cockpit is just one last line of defence. We all know what a joke airport screening and ramp access can be. When the day comes that it fails and the bad guys are coming thru the reinforced door, you and your pax would be damn glad that you have it...

[bronson]

For sure Obama is a polar shift from Bush, it should be interesting to see how it plays out.

I love his new idea of having war vets pay for their war injuries through their own medical plans.

Maybe he is on to something there because that might be the way to end wars, make the soldiers pay for getting shot in a war.

Maybe if if the war injuries were paid by congressmens' medical plans....

[BibleMonkey]

Guns are way too dangerous. They should only be in the hands of trained Government officials, like Postmen and those Department of Motor vehicles guys that take your picture.

Flight attendants should be issued bayonets and/or tazers. Those are dangerous, but not so bad-especially if they get three, four , minutes of Safety training emphasizing " no tazering inna face-might cause brain-lock" -etc .

In order to distract the passengers minds from their justified highjacking fears ( which is the highest cause of premature death after heart attacks ,cancer, and slippery bathtubs) , the Captain should make random emergency announcements half an hour into the flight, and every thirty minutes or so after:

" We lost an engine-but please remain calm, I seen them putting lotsa new parts inna other one last year"
or

"Does anybody aboard know how to fix a stuck flap " etc.

We have nothing to fear except fear itself. Well, unless you're scared of something else . Then that slogan don't work I guess.

[skycoupe]

A firearm in the cockpit is just one last line of defence. We all know what a joke airport screening and ramp access can be. When the day comes that it fails and the bad guys are coming thru the reinforced door, you and your pax would be damn glad that you have it...

X2

Not to be insensitive, ...but apparently my neck, it's red. Racism edited by Sulako. Don't be a dumbass.

[Panama Jack]

I seem to remember that during the Soviet Union days pilot at Aeroflot also carried side arms.

Any discussion on guns seems to bring out the usual suspects on both sides of the issue.

[skycoupe]

Wow
Admittedly I may have used an insensitive term to describe a certain group that committed this act
My bad

But to then be called racist .. ignorant .. redneck .. dumbass .. by others, including a mod.

That makes the score 4 to one in my books

Pot and kettle?????

I'm out

[Ronner]

In Canada, the Criminal Code (R.S., c. C-34, s. 2.) defines a peace officer as:
“

"peace officer" includes

* (a) a mayor, warden, reeve, sheriff, deputy sheriff, sheriff’s officer, and justice of the peace,

* (b) a member of the Correctional Service of Canada who is designated as a peace officer pursuant to Part I of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, and a warden, deputy warden, instructor, keeper, jailer, guard and any other officer or permanent employee of a prison other than a penitentiary as defined in Part I of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act,

* (c) a police officer, police constable, bailiff, constable, or other person employed for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace or for the service or execution of civil process,

* (d) an officer within the meaning of the Customs Act, the Excise Act or the Excise Act, 2001, or a person having the powers of such an officer, when performing any duty in the administration of any of those Acts,

* (d.1) an officer authorized under subsection 138(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act,

* (e) a person designated as a fishery guardian under the Fisheries Act when performing any duties or functions under that Act and a person designated as a fishery officer under the Fisheries Act when performing any duties or functions under that Act or the Coastal Fisheries Protection Act,

* (f) the pilot in command of an aircraft
o (i) registered in Canada under regulations made under the Aeronautics Act, or
o (ii) leased without crew and operated by a person who is qualified under regulations made under the Aeronautics Act to be registered as owner of an aircraft registered in Canada under those regulations, while the aircraft is in flight, and

* (g) officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces who are
o (i) appointed for the purposes of section 156 of the National Defence Act, or
o (ii) employed on duties that the Governor in Council, in regulations made under the National Defence Act for the purposes of this paragraph, has prescribed to be of such a kind as to necessitate that the officers and non-commissioned members performing them have the powers of peace officers;

”

[All members of the Canadian Forces have Peace officer power while they are engaging "in the course of any military operation, training or administration, either as a result of a specific order or established military custom or practice". Section 156 of the National Defence Act declares that members of the Canadian Forces who have been designated as Military Police shall be considered peace officers under the Criminal Code of Canada.]

Section (b) can designate as a peace officer a member of the Correctional Service of Canada under the following via the Corrections and Conditional Release Act:[1]

“ *10. The Commissioner may in writing designate any staff member, either by name or by class, to be a peace officer, and a staff member so designated has all the powers, authority, protection and privileges that a peace officer has by law in respect of

*
o (a) an offender subject to a warrant or to an order for long-term supervision; and
o (b) any person, while the person is in a penitentiary.

”

In addition, legislatures of provinces can designate a class of officers (ie. Conservation Officers) to be peace officers.

[raven54]

I flew for years with a 357 Magnum in a holster and never ever had any problems.....I always knew that if something went wrong my survival weapon was where I could find it.

So by survival tool, I assume you mean a tool for defense?