Airport Identifiers--the history

[Stan_Cooper]

So we're talking in class yesterday, about the designation of airport identifiers in Canada...

We're pretty sure the first ones were designated CY--... But from there it gets sort of speculative. Is there anywhere I can do some reading on the original intention of the airport lettering?

From what I remember reading somewhere, CY was for Canada, the next letter was for the type of navaid, and the last letter was just for identification:

For example, CYXU -- X denotes NDB, and U is the identifier of the beacon,

CYXR -- the romeo beacon...

CYUL -- I think U was for radio range

What our instructor said was that in later years, CY denoted that weather services are available, and CN-- would be an airport with no weather.

I know that things may have changed a lot since the original system, but does anyone know anything else about it, or where to read about it?

I think I'm gonna hit the bushplane museum library for this when I have some free time...

[chewsta]

Thought I read at one time that C was for Canada, K for the USA. Then some retards were worried that if the other 3 letters matched there would be confusion. So Canada used Y as the second letter. The last two letters were done arbitrarily.

So I think anyway....

[Stan_Cooper]

Just remember chewsta... FLU's a bit underpowered, so it might take full power to get over those chocks.

Thanks,

[Doc]

I'm still hung up on the simple fact, that only in Canada would we name an airport after the single biggest jerk (aviation wise, at least) who screwed the nation out of it's greatest contribution to aviation!!!!

[groundtoflightdeck]

I'm still hung up on the simple fact, that only in Canada would we name an airport after the single biggest jerk (aviation wise, at least) who screwed the nation out of it's greatest contribution to aviation!!!!

Haha. John G. (YXE)

[Centurian]

I heard that the Y indicates an IFR approach. Can't remember when or where I heard it but maybe it will help...

Centurian

[Go Guns]

It might be of interest to note that CYXX, CYXS, CYXJ, CYXT, CYXD, and CYXH all look very similar with their triangular shape.

[737captain]

Doesn't really answer the question in Canada but...http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html... mildly interesting.

[bob sacamano]

From what I remember, Y or N denote whether there is a weather reporting station or not.

[. .]

I disagree with the CY indicating that weather is available. There's plenty of airports up there that start with CY and don't have weather. CYER, CYPO, CYWP etc, etc. (metar/taf/etc).

I can't remember if YER, YPO, etc had anything other than an altimeter that the northern agents use. Does anyone know a station that starts with a letter other than Y that does have weather? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Donald]

What's your definition of weather?

CZFN and CZFM both have metars.

[DA900]

I know that things may have changed a lot since the original system, but does anyone know anything else about it, or where to read about it.

Does anyone know anything else about it, in one word "NO"

[oldtimer]

Many many moons ago, the RCAF controlled aviation in Canada and they used a two letter identifier for airports, Radio Range stations and weather stations. As the Department of Transport was formed and took over, the two letter identifier continued. I do not remember exactly why or who but about the time of the introduction of ICAOphonetic alphabet, the two letter identifier was incompatable so every existing airport in Canada tacked a Y on the beginning of their identifier. So Regina changed from QR to YQR. and Calgary changed from YC to YYC. I do not believe there was any rhyme or reason to the application of identifiers. With the introduction of multiple approaches at various airports, single letter identifiers were assigned to terminal power NDB's. two letter NDB's were higher power NDB's and three letter NDB's formed an higher priority airway. Airvays based on a VHF VOR were V or Victor Airways. In Canada, airways had Priority". How it worked is lost in antiquity but in a non-radar environment, it made sense. Green airways were the highest proirity so if a conflict existed,airplanes on an Amber Airway yeilded to aircraft on a Green airway. Amber, Red then Blue airways and finally Red Routes and Blue Routes. Still in use today, except they are called Golf, Alpha, Romeo, Bravo, Romeo Romeo and finally Bravo Romeo. All depends on where the airway begins and where it ends. BR 21 for example started at the YYC NDB and ended at the Cowley Alta NDB with no licensed airport at the end. In the USA, much the same thing happened, except with more airports, the USA used the whole alphabet. Many used the initials of famous people or the towns. Los Angles was LA and became LAX. In Canada, as aviation developed, nearsighted policy left the naming with shortcomings. VOR's witout an airport associated got a V designator such as VLN, Lumsden Sask or VLR, Langruth Man. Z designators were originally an inland weather office with or without an airport. ZPC is Pincher Creek Alta. Soon, it appears we ran out of 3 letter designators and with the proliferation of international travel, a new system had to be devised so ICAO changed every Canadian AIRPORT identifier by adding a C at the beginning. Continental USA got a K designator and Alsaka and Hawaii got a P. England got an E and so on and so fort.. So ANC (Anchorage AK) became PANC. YVR became CYVR and so the story goes. With the introduction of GPS and RNAV, now we are thinking ahead and are using a 5 letter identifier for everything. It is now just keystrokes that a computer will recognise. As procedures are developed, procedure designers are having a bit of fun. The FAWP for 08 L and 08 R in CYVR are SEKOK and FAGUE. Wreck Beach, the clothing optional nudie and pot smoking beach in Vancouver are in close proximity. The waypoint in Terrace are named after an airport employees family. Look at the GPS 16 approach into Portsmouthe, New Hampshire. Wish I had a link but I do not. For the most part, gazetted names were shortened to 5 letters for certain procedures. Into Calgary, you have the VUCAN arrival or the TORON arrival. Vucan is over VULCAN ALTA. and TORON is over the little jerkwater town of TORRINGTON ALTA. Experts clain the most inefficient means of communication is the human voice so ATC are working toward satillite based data downloads. I believe Air Canada uses this system already. When they ask for clearance, all they get is a code and if theirs and ATC's are the same, it is a valid clearance. Less chance for error that way. And that is all I know about the system.

[bezerker]

Portsmouth is pretty funny.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0505/00678R16.PDF

[4hrstovegas]

C is for Canada; Y indicates weather at the field or within 5 nm radius.

[Babel Fish]

I heard that the Y indicates an IFR approach. Can't remember when or where I heard it but maybe it will help...

Sorry Centurion, don't think that's 100% true...example: CYBW (Springbank)...no certified IFR approaches (yet)...have to fly IFR to YYC then cancel and go VFR to YBW...but they do have wx there

[Right Seat Captain]

I think they were talking about the Y representing the presence of an approach historically, as in once a long time ago, that's how they identified the airports.

[Rowdy]

I don't believe the Y has anything to do with weather or approaches. As YNJ is langley and it has no IFR approaches and no metar etc. same with CYCW chilliwack... also CZBB boundary bay has one. Go figure. I think the Z and Y were just another denotation for airport (not aerodrome)

Then again! what do I know??!

[jimmyjazz]

The y "WAS" associated with weather when we had a guy sitting in almost every little place in canada.(maybe because they were saying WHY the fu** am I up here) Now it's just left there, all the other answers are in oldtimers reply.

[DC6driver]

the "Y" actually denotes whether the airport is certified or just registered.

[CID]

OK. Here's the real answer.

In the olden days, even before aviation was all the rage, Hedley was in grade 3 for the third time and satellites weren't even thought of ,weather reporting stations were scattered throughout Canada at strategic locations. Each station was given a two letter identifier. You may still see the two letter designation on some maps.

Some stations like one manned in Winnipeg were given relatively straight forward identifiers like WG.

Others, like the one in the middle of a field east of Toronto was left with YZ since TO was already taken and didn't really describe the geographic location anyway.

Later on as aerodromes became popular, the equivalent to Environment Canada of the day decided to co-locate some of the stations with airports. In some cases airports were built at existing weather reporting sites.

The lists with the codes for the reporting stations were amended to indicate if the station was co-located with an airport "Y" or not "N".

So WG became YWG. They didn't really bother using the "N" in day to day communications.

The C was added to meet international navigation standards and now the full Cxxx format is used to identify the airport. Most navigation databases define the position of Cxxx as the middle of the longest runway on the airport.

Of course later on lots of airports were added that had no co-located weather reporting stations. They weren't really bound to the format so we started seeing places like CZTM etc.

Now that Environment Canada has revamped (screwed up) weather reporting in Canada, nobody is bound to the old standard.

With respect to nav aids associated to a particular airport, many adopted the airport identifier as the radio station identifier listed on the tranmsitter licence for the primary nav aid. Other navaids were often derived from the primary nav aid identification. This isn't a standard so its not used exclusively.

For example, CYWG has a YWG VOR and a WG, and a Y and a W and a G NDB. But it also has an N beacon. Dunno where that came from!

At this point in time, the airport identifier has nothing to do with the co-location of weather reporting stations, ILS capabilities or anything else but history.

[V1 Rotate]

CYNJ - Langley BC has an IFR approach - RNAV (GPS) RWY 01
CZBB - Boundary Bay BC has 2 appraoches, VOR 07 and RNAV (GPS) Rwy 30.

The middle letters mean nothing.
That is all.

[ScudRunner]

I believe that YCW use to have an approach. I dont think the letter codes really mean that much anymore.

Interesting about the Alaska and Hawaii got the P in front of them not the K like the mainland, you have to remember they were just territories back in the day.

[Max Torque]

I believe the C is Canadian as previously stated. I believe I had read one time the Y means "yes", weather is reported at this station.

[Tim]

so what about airports that dont have a y,z or n?

ccq3 - debert, ns
cpt2 - killarney, on