Share/Partner at CYBW?

[MikeInAB]

I've recently really started thinking seriously about purchasing an airplane, but for various reasons, would prefer to have a shared/partnership arrangement.

Before I got my license and instrument rating in the US (Texas), I was very fortunate in that there were several of us at the (small, private) company I worked at who were keenly interested in learning to fly. I was also very fortunate in that the owner/CEO of said company was also an active pilot and CFI, and was sincerely interested in providing lessons. Being a small company, and a strong proponent of owning (versus renting), he offered to back the loan on the plane, provided we serviced the note. That worked out very well - we were a small, tight-knit group, who after working together for a few years, knew each other very well and developed a lot of trust. After most of us got our private licenses, we sold the Tomahawk (and cleared the bank note against the company), formed a not-for-profit corporation, took out a new loan, and bought a Cherokee 180. Since our flying club was a corporation, we had a 'business charter', appointed our own board of directors (president, secretary, treasurer, maintenance manager), and held monthly and annual corporate meetings. This all worked very well.

So, ideally, this is the type of club I'd like to start here, however I am uncertain as to how TC would look upon a company owning an airplane whose charter is "to provide an aircraft suitable for its shareholders to develop their piloting skills."

I have just started looking into this, so any help I can get here would be a big help. If anyone here has experience with forming small (private, limited membership) flying clubs, I would welcome your suggestions/comments.

In any event, if there's anyone who flies out of CYBW who is thinking about shared ownership, please let me know.

I'm considering a plane similar to what I flew in Texas - single engine, mid- to high-performance. Examples include Piper Cherokee, Arrow, Six; Cessna 182, 172 SP; possibly others.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

-Mike

Note to mod: I hope you don't mind me posting this in the 'General' forum. I've also cross-posted it in the 'Aircraft for Sale' forum. Please advise if this goes against forum conventions/rules.

[SkyWolfe]

I guess then I can post on your topic that I need a tail dragger buddy in YVR/CZBB

[mcrit]

Owning an aircraft via a corporation is not all that hard. I transfered ownership of my aircraft to my corporation a few years back. All it involved was setting up the corporation (I'm going to assume that you have that end of the operation under control) and then sending sending in a change of ownership notification. The only catch is that the corporation has to be Canadian (I confess to being hazy on the exact details of that, but they are in the CARs). As far as who can fly/train on the aircraft, that is set out in the CARs.

(2) A person who does not hold a flight training unit operator certificate may operate a flight training service if

(a) the person holds a private operator certificate or an air operator certificate, the aircraft used for training is specified in the private operator certificate or air operator certificate, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational, a private pilot licence, a commercial pilot licence or a flight instructor rating; or

(b) the trainee is

(i) the owner, or a member of the family of the owner, of the aircraft used for training,

(ii) a director of a corporation that owns the aircraft used for training, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational or a private pilot licence, or

(iii) using an aircraft that has been obtained from a person who is at arm’s length from the flight instructor, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational or a private pilot licence.
(amended 2003/06/01; previous version)

So what that means is that if someone wants to take training towards a rating/license/permit they have to be a director of the corporation (and they can be doing a PPL or RPP). If someone just wants to go flying (even take some dual just to improve their general skills) they don't even need to be a director.

If someone wants to do their PPL or RPP on the A/C then they need to be listed as an owner.

[MikeInAB]

Thanks for the info. I was not the key person to set up the corporation in Texas, so my knowledge of that process is limited for the US; so even worse for Canada. But, I'm very confident I can figure that part of it out.

My biggest concern is the legalities (wrt the CARs) of having a corporation-owned a/c flown by more than 1 licensed pilots, when none of said pilots hold commercial licenses or instructor ratings.

From the CARs you referred to, it appears this arrangement is perfectly fine.

[I Я Instructor]

[BigglesNBella]

Owning an aircraft via a corporation is not all that hard. I transfered ownership of my aircraft to my corporation a few years back. All it involved was setting up the corporation (I'm going to assume that you have that end of the operation under control) and then sending sending in a change of ownership notification. The only catch is that the corporation has to be Canadian (I confess to being hazy on the exact details of that, but they are in the CARs). As far as who can fly/train on the aircraft, that is set out in the CARs.

(2) A person who does not hold a flight training unit operator certificate may operate a flight training service if

(a) the person holds a private operator certificate or an air operator certificate, the aircraft used for training is specified in the private operator certificate or air operator certificate, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational, a private pilot licence, a commercial pilot licence or a flight instructor rating; or

(b) the trainee is

(i) the owner, or a member of the family of the owner, of the aircraft used for training,

(ii) a director of a corporation that owns the aircraft used for training, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational or a private pilot licence, or

(iii) using an aircraft that has been obtained from a person who is at arm’s length from the flight instructor, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational or a private pilot licence.
(amended 2003/06/01; previous version)

So what that means is that if someone wants to take training towards a rating/license/permit they have to be a director of the corporation (and they can be doing a PPL or RPP). If someone just wants to go flying (even take some dual just to improve their general skills) they don't even need to be a director.

If someone wants to do their PPL or RPP on the A/C then they need to be listed as an owner.

What the hell does that mean?

[star57]

TC rules that, for the purpose of flight training the A/C has to be owned or lease by the individual rather than his corporation.
Thats the way it was last year and I had to lease it from my Company.
I'm also interested in fractionning my 172SP.
Good luck