Planes to consider

[Just another canuck]

I'm not in the immediate market for an airplane, but am starting to consider it. Next summer maybe, but most likely the year after. I just want to start thinking about it, researching and shopping around to get a feel for the whole thing.

I'm pretty ignorant to the float world so forgive my ignorance on the subject guys.

I would prefer amphibs.
I would prefer something I could put me plus two... or me plus one plus some gear.
Is there a small a/c out there you can strap a small canoe to legally/safely?
Prices?
Insurance?
Maintenance costs?
Hangar costs (I would like possibly to build my own at my own place)? Also, if I do this, what are the options to bring it to the water? Or am I legally allowed to fly it off my camp road (the road is more than enough)? But there is a launch... is taxiing it to the water an option? The launch is kind of steep.

Like I said, forgive me ignorance if any of these questions seem stupid.

Thanks guys.

[Cat Driver]

Like I said, forgive me ignorance if any of these questions seem stupid.

Far from it not asking is stupid.

The Piper PA12 is a marvelous airplane in fact in my opinion it was Pipers best single engine airplane.

It is three place one in front and two in the back, and will carry a canoe as long as you don't over load the thing.

I don't know if anyone ever put one on amphibs though.

[Just another canuck]

Far from it not asking is stupid.

Just covering my ass, Cat... didn't want to offend anyone. You know how easy that can be on here.

Also, besides the cost of the airplane, what other initial costs are there for the purchase? Transfer of ownership? Buying from the States, maybe? And any other significant costs you think may be relevant?

[sarg]

Cessna 180 or 185 would fit the bill. Some of the older ones would come in at a reasonable price. General rule for external loads is to reduce the payload, some operators even reduce internal payload by up to 50% or double the weight of the external load. Then limits on wind conditions.

[mag check]

The Scout (8gcbc) will seat 2 in the back, like the PA12, and there are lots of them on amphibs. Usefull load won't be much(like all amphibs, it's the price you pay), but it is a good allround aircraft, with no bad habits.

[rigpiggy]

Also look at some of the homebuilt cub/citabria clones. not limited with floats, ie: full lotus, czech made amphibs etc.... maintenance can be lower as well.

[Lost Lake]

It all depends on how much you want to spend. Amphibs will greatly reduce payload, while increasing versatility, especially if it's IFR equiped. Minimum would be a 180/185/206. If I had the money, I would have a turbo beaver amphib in a heartbeat! Just imho.

[Just another canuck]

I'm starting to think amphibs are not as good an option, just because of payload but also because of cost. I'd love a turbo beav on amphibs as well, but that is just a pipe dream at this point. I'm thinking the 50-60 K range.

What do you guys think about the Zenith 701? Could it handle an external load? Is it too underpowered? There's one on barnstormers for 55 K on amphibs.... I can't post the link...

[Lost Lake]

The 701 can barely get off the water with 2 people. That's with a Rotax 912. Forget external loads. I think maybe you are a low timer. Start with a cub, chief, etc. Forget external loads. You can't buy a cheap ($50-70K) airplane in decent shape that will haul external loads.
IMHO. For external loads (i.e. canoe or boat), you would want at least a high powered 172 and up. And you better have some float experience as well!!

[Cat Driver]

You can do without a canoe by carrying an inflatable boat.

[Invertago]

Better then an inflatable boat...

http://www.paddling.net/folding-kayaks. ... OOGLE_FOLD

Folding Kayaks Get one of those and you can have your PA28 on floats

[Just another canuck]

The 701 can barely get off the water with 2 people. That's with a Rotax 912. Forget external loads. I think maybe you are a low timer. Start with a cub, chief, etc. Forget external loads. You can't buy a cheap ($50-70K) airplane in decent shape that will haul external loads.
IMHO. For external loads (i.e. canoe or boat), you would want at least a high powered 172 and up. And you better have some float experience as well!!

I thought that about the 701 anyway... just thought I'd ask. I don't have much float time, but do have other time... and I have some friends I would definitely get some instruction from first, so no worries there. Also, I would obviously progress myself with the operation of the aircraft.

You can do without a canoe by carrying an inflatable boat.

Better then an inflatable boat...

http://www.paddling.net/folding-kayaks. ... OOGLE_FOLD

Folding Kayaks Get one of those and you can have your PA28 on floats

I was thinking of an inflatable or foldable anyway... surely you could strap one of those foldable boats to the side of a Cub or similar, no??

[Cat Driver]

surely you could strap one of those foldable boats to the side of a Cub or similar, no??

Yes.

[mikegtzg]

There are a few 701's and 701 clones on our field. With 100hp they go 95 mph. Shortly therfe will be one on Amphib's...and then can comment on gross water performance. I suspect with 100hp there shouldn't be a problem.
Zenair also has come out with the 750. Like a 701 but setup for a small Continental rather than Rotax engines.

[SuperchargedRS]

Stinson Voyager?

[mag check]

Stinson Voyager?

I've never seen one on amphib's.

[Just another canuck]

Stinson Voyager?

I've never seen one on amphib's.

I've been told by a few of my friends as well as some posters here that amphibs are NOT the way to go in my case... I'll still consider it but I think I'll be going straight floats and would like skis for the winter... wheel/skis preferably.

I like the sounds of that Stinson... they seem to be fairly cheap and have dual controls as well... a bonus for a guy like me. They also seem to have quite a bit of power and a greater useful load... no problem with an external load I guess?? Is there a catch here?

[iflyforpie]

Stinsons are great-espc the 108-3 with the big tail. The engines can be a pain in the ass though. Most AMEs hate the old Franklin and the few with the Lycoming O-435 can be fun getting parts for. The O-470 conversions are probably the best but they command a higher price. Quite a few have metalized wings which saves on maintenance.

Another plane that might be good is the Aeronca Sedan. There aren't too many of these still around but they were a good workhorse floatplane back in the day.


If you are doing straight floats, find a takeoff dolly for launching and land in the grass. This is what we did in YCW where we were miles from water. I sure don't miss threading a floatplane between light standards and power poles and getting stuck in mud and sand in our half a Toronado float dolly.

[Cat Driver]

I've been told by a few of my friends as well as some posters here that amphibs are NOT the way to go in my case...

There are many positive things you get flying an amphib such as the ability to land at an airport should the weather close in on you and of course it is so much easier to find fuel at an airport.

Also you do not have the worry of the airplane getting damaged at a dock or snow during the night sinking the thing because you can keep it at the airport.

There are only two real negatives...loss of pay load and cost.

[Just another canuck]

There are only two real negatives...loss of pay load and cost.

How much of a pay load cost are we talking here? Like I said, as long as I can take me, 1 passenger and my gear for fishing (including some type of foldable/inflatable boat/canoe/kayak), I am happy... will the range be affected? Also, are the maintenance cost/issues a lot more?

[Cat Driver]

One would need to know the make of float to get the answer to that question, then talk to the manufacturer to find out the weight difference between straight and amphibious floats.

[mikesxr]

dont really no much about them but i heard maule makes good float planes.

[SuperchargedRS]

Some wheel Stinsons have 1000lbs useful load. Univair makes almost enough parts to build a Voyager from scratch, and PZL still makes the engines, parts arnt that hard to find if you put half a bit of effort into it. Add the slotted wings, excellent slow flight characteristics and they are one of the more attractive planes out there IMO


Here is some good info on the Voyagers

http://personalpages.tdstelme.net/~westin/ac-0.htm

Also check out the Yahoo groups

[mag check]

On the size aircraft you are thinking about, you will give up about 200 lbs for the conveniance of adding wheels to the floats.

For me it is an acceptable penalty, I like to be able to bring the plane inside for the night, and fuel can be hard to find on straight floats.

For your budget(50-60k), you might be able to get into a Murphy rebel on straight floats, then move into amphibs if the straights don't work out. They are great performing aircraft.

[GreenStar]

I think there is something else to consider about amphibs. What is the the survival rate of an accidental wheel down water landing? My guess would be 50/50. Some of the jocks will say a real pilot should never do such a thing. Proper training and the new electronics should prevent this. Baloney. I have spent a good part of my life listening to warning buzzers that eventually just get ignored. I opted for straight floats even though they are not as convenient and do have plenty of plane to handle them. Don't be afraid to admit to being a "mere mortal" recreational pilot. It takes one more risk out of the equation.