Yellowknife
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Yellowknife
I'm thinking about moving to yellowknife in the fall in hopes of eventually being hired to fly, can anyone tell me what the job situation is up there now?
Yellowknife
The time to go is actually right now so that by the time spring hiring picks up, you have a face that is recognizable to the people doing the hiring. Some companies lay off in the fall, and all definitely slow down. Occasionally you hear of people being hired for the ramp and dispatch in the fall, but usually due to flying pilots leaving for another job, which is quite a gamble to bank on. If you're in school now and can't make it til then, you could always go up and get a job in just about any sector, as there are generally lots to be had, make some money (generally more than down south), and have the whole winter to make yourself known to the companies where you'd like to work. Bear in mind though, that cost of living is more. Shared accomodation, the most common and available, is about $500- 550 depending on the situation, and may or may not include utilities. Even though waiting til spring to get a not-flying-yet job seems painful, there are lots of young people who aren't crazy enough to be pilots who go there just to experience northern Canada. If you're someone who likes travel and lives life for the experiences, I'd say go whenever you can and just keep showing up with a smile on your face until you get in.
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water wings
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:09 pm
stop the insanity!!!!!
please tell me you have enough hours for direct entry captain on a 200, if not, stay away from Yellowknife. The sandwich artist at subway is a pilot, the girl that served your beer is a pilot...80% of the people on the ramp are pilots. If you don't mind working the ramp at Tindi / ASW for ooh, it's up to about 3 years now (just enough time for all of your ratings to run out) then go ahead. First Air does NOT hire internally anymore (and they have upped the SO requirements to 1500hrs) Summit would rather you be a fully licensed AME. Am i trying to dicourage the move to YZF ..sort of... I have several friends who after 3 years STILL have 300 hours, and might get on this summer as FO on the twotter...followed by a layoff. Anyway, i know it has worked for some people, but i'm too old for that stuff, even though i love Yellowknife.
If you desperately want to go, go, but do not expect to be flying anytime soon. If you go and end up flying this year, keep that horseshoe well hidden.
Good luck, fly safe.
please tell me you have enough hours for direct entry captain on a 200, if not, stay away from Yellowknife. The sandwich artist at subway is a pilot, the girl that served your beer is a pilot...80% of the people on the ramp are pilots. If you don't mind working the ramp at Tindi / ASW for ooh, it's up to about 3 years now (just enough time for all of your ratings to run out) then go ahead. First Air does NOT hire internally anymore (and they have upped the SO requirements to 1500hrs) Summit would rather you be a fully licensed AME. Am i trying to dicourage the move to YZF ..sort of... I have several friends who after 3 years STILL have 300 hours, and might get on this summer as FO on the twotter...followed by a layoff. Anyway, i know it has worked for some people, but i'm too old for that stuff, even though i love Yellowknife.
If you desperately want to go, go, but do not expect to be flying anytime soon. If you go and end up flying this year, keep that horseshoe well hidden.
Good luck, fly safe.
I have been hearing the same. The Knife is played out. Go find a cadet contract and get some hours instructing. The industry is picking up, and this summer we should see some things moving. But the fact still remains that the Knife is/has been saturated with pilots for awhile. Best of luck.
Catch & Release, Catch & Release
JD
JD
I was afraid the market up there might be saturated. I went up there on a road trip a couple of years ago. I loved it but wasn't prepared to move there at that time. I have 1200 hrs and i'm apprenticing right now I was thinking of looking for an apprenticing job up there while I wait for a flying job. i can't go anywhere before fall because I have a flying job for the summer but I do want to move somewhere in the fall. If anyone has any suggestions where i should move to i'm open to suggestions. thanx
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TFTMB heavy
- Rank 7
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If you can fix and fly go to Summit Air. Don't need to be licenced but willing to get your hands dirty is a big plus.
http://www.summitair.net
http://www.summitair.net
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YZF_lurking
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- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:32 pm
Let me tell you lowtimers a bit about the Knife.
Tindi, Arctic Sunwest are the main reason guys come up to YZF. Tindi currently has around 30 guys on the ramp/dispatch/load masters waiting for a job to fly. I hear that after 2 years they will PPC you on the twin otter, and give you 2 choices, leave or wait another year to get a full-time flying position. This means 3 years on the ramp for tindi before a full-time flying job. Arctic Sunwest is going through some facility expansions, and getting another Buffalo. The days of 6 months on the ramp at ASC is over, they have not added any a/c for awhile except for the buffalo coming this spring. Your looking at about 2 years ramp now at ASC. Keep in mind that moving to YZF wont get you a job on the ramp the first week your here. Expect 1 year to bug the CP's to give you a ramp job as there is many low-timers up here and usually 2 or 3 guys waiting to talk to the CP in the morning around 7 am. Get my drift boys, go some where else, YK is expensive, cold, and saturated with low timers. Pack your truck up with a camper and move to northern ontario and bug the smaller operators. I've been in Yk for six months, have lots of industry related experience, and and sick and tired of the BS involved with entry level jobs. I wish I moved to northern ontario, flew a 185, and slowly built my time. If your wondering about the smaller companies like Summit, Adlair, Northwestern Air Lease, they are usually a faster move to flying but turn over is slow. You need to really get to know all the owners in order to get them to give you a job. This means bugging them and sucking up for along time. On the plus side there are many jobs up here to be found, doing construction/extra foods/tim hortons etc, are always looking for guys. I hear mcd's pays like 12 an hr, but it is pretty funny to see grade 7 kids running the show.
Thought I would tell you a bit about Yk, and try to save some fellow guys some money by wasting another spring moving to YK. Go to Northern Sask/Ontario, and try to get a job flying for a fishing lodge. If you decide to move to Yk, have a 5 year plan and only expect to have 2000 hrs of experience out of the 5 years here. Hope this helps, and remember this is only one opinion out of many, but this is straight forward the way it is,
Good luck
Tindi, Arctic Sunwest are the main reason guys come up to YZF. Tindi currently has around 30 guys on the ramp/dispatch/load masters waiting for a job to fly. I hear that after 2 years they will PPC you on the twin otter, and give you 2 choices, leave or wait another year to get a full-time flying position. This means 3 years on the ramp for tindi before a full-time flying job. Arctic Sunwest is going through some facility expansions, and getting another Buffalo. The days of 6 months on the ramp at ASC is over, they have not added any a/c for awhile except for the buffalo coming this spring. Your looking at about 2 years ramp now at ASC. Keep in mind that moving to YZF wont get you a job on the ramp the first week your here. Expect 1 year to bug the CP's to give you a ramp job as there is many low-timers up here and usually 2 or 3 guys waiting to talk to the CP in the morning around 7 am. Get my drift boys, go some where else, YK is expensive, cold, and saturated with low timers. Pack your truck up with a camper and move to northern ontario and bug the smaller operators. I've been in Yk for six months, have lots of industry related experience, and and sick and tired of the BS involved with entry level jobs. I wish I moved to northern ontario, flew a 185, and slowly built my time. If your wondering about the smaller companies like Summit, Adlair, Northwestern Air Lease, they are usually a faster move to flying but turn over is slow. You need to really get to know all the owners in order to get them to give you a job. This means bugging them and sucking up for along time. On the plus side there are many jobs up here to be found, doing construction/extra foods/tim hortons etc, are always looking for guys. I hear mcd's pays like 12 an hr, but it is pretty funny to see grade 7 kids running the show.
Thought I would tell you a bit about Yk, and try to save some fellow guys some money by wasting another spring moving to YK. Go to Northern Sask/Ontario, and try to get a job flying for a fishing lodge. If you decide to move to Yk, have a 5 year plan and only expect to have 2000 hrs of experience out of the 5 years here. Hope this helps, and remember this is only one opinion out of many, but this is straight forward the way it is,
Good luck
What do you expect when it seems that the majority of the advice given when questions are posed about how do i break into the industry are swallow your pride, pack a warm coat and go as far north as you can. Though may be some places further north the last stop for most seems to be YK. By the by, i know 4 people who got employed within a month, although have no idea how long the ramp times will be, it would seem quite a while.
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permateacher
- Rank 2
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North
Hey,
I find quite a few people talk of the best places to go lurking to find a job. The Knife for example, or Thompson. The ramp waits are between 2-3 years so I hear and it's very seasonal. If I was gonna lurk again I'd do it in Saskatoon or somewhere where you can make a decent wage outside flying, and there are a lot of avaition companies. In the year I worked the ramp before I got flying, I only saw one guy come in to drop off a resume, and he got a job a month later.
So consider other places to hit in the road trip (or blind move), if the usual suspects like Yellowkinfe are that full of pilots.
RH
I find quite a few people talk of the best places to go lurking to find a job. The Knife for example, or Thompson. The ramp waits are between 2-3 years so I hear and it's very seasonal. If I was gonna lurk again I'd do it in Saskatoon or somewhere where you can make a decent wage outside flying, and there are a lot of avaition companies. In the year I worked the ramp before I got flying, I only saw one guy come in to drop off a resume, and he got a job a month later.
So consider other places to hit in the road trip (or blind move), if the usual suspects like Yellowkinfe are that full of pilots.
RH
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captainsweaty
- Rank 2
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- Location: canada
YZF Lurking has hit the nail pretty much on the head with the description on life for low timers in Yellowknife. That all being said, there are reasons why guys and gals are willing to put up with the waits at these places. You are going to eventually get multi turbine co pilot time. Additionally if you have any skills other then flying you can make some good money up here in YK, trades especially. Don't forget Cambridge Bay, Norman Wells either, as they have taken low timers and got them flying as well.
Good Luck lemony
Good Luck lemony
Last edited by captainsweaty on Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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YZF_lurking
- Rank 0
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As to comment captainsweaty, yes there is lots of opportunity in Norman Wells, go to North-Wright, with the new pipeline coming in from Norman Wells to Fort Simpson there maybe some growth over the next 5 years. Also there is only a ice road to get there by vehicle and i dot think they see many guys at the door. That dedication goes along way in this industry. If you do decide to come to YK, I wish you all the best. Just wanted to put out there what YZF is all about.
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water wings
- Rank 8
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sorry, was away.. job hunting.. in MB, ON, SK and QC...sure are lots of companies south of 60.BuckNiner wrote:Hey Water Wings, where then would you suggest going for a guy with a fresh commercial licence who doesn't want to instruct?
I just don't see the need to dissolusion yet another pilot by sending them to the land of the Knife. I have too many friends up there that still have 300 hours after 3 years. They do have great customer service skills now, having pushed carts, sold tickets and cleaned planes.
If you only have 300 hours and are late teens / early twenties and you do not want to consider anything else, GO to YZF and find out for yourself. I think if you have lemony's time,(and the AME experience) the same route could be taken where the cost of living is less. But as montionned above,
Summit Air is a good deal for AME/pilot folk in YZF.
just my opinion.I hate to see people start to blame themselves for their failures of not getting employed, when really, their surrounding of saturated pilots is just as much to blame. location, location, location. oooh, and luck. Northern Saskathewan, Lake of the woods, central MB all have large amounts of companies, generally more jobs per pilot than YZF ratio...but YZF pays great for other jobs if you sidetrack from flying.
As for avoiding the instructor route, i hope those who are only doing it to build time DO avoid it. Instructors have to love what they are doing to do it right, if not, the students are just pawns. I'm pretty sure i sucked at it.
Here's the way I'm looking at Yellowknife:
So you have to do 2-3 years on the ramp, followed by a season sitting right seat in the Twotter, then back to the ramp for the winter, then full-time flying. The thing here is that you have the potential for full-time employment on some really, really great equipment.
I've spent a lot of time in NW Ontario and the problem there is that every October you get a layoff slip and are forced to spend the winter twiddling your thumbs on E.I. Also, the furthest you can advance equipment wise is usually a single otter or a Beech 18. I am not one of those guys looking for the fastest way to a 737, but I do know how the "float trap" can kill a pilots advancement to a better paying position.
The way I see it with Tindi or ASW, there is major POTENTIAL, with hard work and responsibility, to continue advancing through some amazing machines. And you don't have to go looking elsewhere for that next job.
So you have to do 2-3 years on the ramp, followed by a season sitting right seat in the Twotter, then back to the ramp for the winter, then full-time flying. The thing here is that you have the potential for full-time employment on some really, really great equipment.
I've spent a lot of time in NW Ontario and the problem there is that every October you get a layoff slip and are forced to spend the winter twiddling your thumbs on E.I. Also, the furthest you can advance equipment wise is usually a single otter or a Beech 18. I am not one of those guys looking for the fastest way to a 737, but I do know how the "float trap" can kill a pilots advancement to a better paying position.
The way I see it with Tindi or ASW, there is major POTENTIAL, with hard work and responsibility, to continue advancing through some amazing machines. And you don't have to go looking elsewhere for that next job.
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young grasshopper
- Rank 4
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To move North of 60 or not...Tough decision no matter how you look at it. The company I work for treats pilots/rampies very well. I started with 200 hours and have worked there for 2.5 years. I have 1100 hours TT and 2 PPC's. I have been VERY lucky with my young career so far, but can't imagine working anywhere else. I enjoy my job (I get a paycheque EVERY month, work with GREAT people - for the most part - and, I think I get to fly top-notch airplanes everyday). Like I said - I got pretty lucky - maybe not everyone catches a lucky break, but I know I wouldn't want to be flying anywhere else. That being said, I am young and I knew before I got hired that I COULD spend much more time on the ramp. If I was older and didn't want to risk being on the ramp for 2-3 years, maybe I would stay south...Good luck to anyone wanting to/thinking of coming north.
Just my Thoughts!
Just my Thoughts!
YG
Yellowknife
You can try First Air in Ottawa, to sit side ways on a 727, for a year.
we still have one twin otter in Ikaluit. As well later on you might have a chance on getting on the ATR 42, since we hired about 4 pilots that sat sideways on the 27. they now have over 2000hrs on the ATR 42.
It might be an option for you, doesn't hurt to try.
Hope things go well for you.
we still have one twin otter in Ikaluit. As well later on you might have a chance on getting on the ATR 42, since we hired about 4 pilots that sat sideways on the 27. they now have over 2000hrs on the ATR 42.
It might be an option for you, doesn't hurt to try.
Hope things go well for you.
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water wings
- Rank 8
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Hey, YZF_AME, i am very confused by your post. I worked for 7F for 7 years, my sister works there as do my best friends...First Air does not have twin otters anymore, no more Beaver, G1 is long gone, and they are still not 100% getting any Dash 7 contracts back...and now require 1500 plus to sit sideways. Last SO hired had nearly 3000 hours.
They used to hire lowtimers from within back in the day that could move up to the twin after no less that 2 years, providing they passed the Sim ride. The girls and guys in the ATR in YZF and 748 in YFB (Iqaluit) were the last of those lucky.
One of those guys had been laid off twice, sideway for over 3 years and finally got the ATR out of YZF, only to get sent back to Ottawa as Second Officer...after moving his family to YZF.
Don't bother checking their website, either. It hasn't been updated in 5 years... wish they would get on that.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. Too bad. Used to be a great way to get started.
They used to hire lowtimers from within back in the day that could move up to the twin after no less that 2 years, providing they passed the Sim ride. The girls and guys in the ATR in YZF and 748 in YFB (Iqaluit) were the last of those lucky.
One of those guys had been laid off twice, sideway for over 3 years and finally got the ATR out of YZF, only to get sent back to Ottawa as Second Officer...after moving his family to YZF.
Don't bother checking their website, either. It hasn't been updated in 5 years... wish they would get on that.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. Too bad. Used to be a great way to get started.
Wow, it seems that 9-11 is still looming! With the demise of
"Jestno more" the fixed wing side of flying is slow to recover from bad management and terrorism. The good news is attrition and lack of new blood; combined with, an ever increasing demand for air travel will result in eventual pilot openings at all tier levels. The rotor side of piloting is having troubles finding qualified guys. The baby boomers have dominated the industry for years, it's Gen X and Y's time now. Keep at it and a good job will come your way, just remember where you came from when you are the CP looking over a "low timer" resume!
no
to the new guys treat them as you want to be eventually treated!
No I'm not a low timer, Multiple ATPL's with an education and a passion for fun professional aviation
Good Hunting!
"Jestno more" the fixed wing side of flying is slow to recover from bad management and terrorism. The good news is attrition and lack of new blood; combined with, an ever increasing demand for air travel will result in eventual pilot openings at all tier levels. The rotor side of piloting is having troubles finding qualified guys. The baby boomers have dominated the industry for years, it's Gen X and Y's time now. Keep at it and a good job will come your way, just remember where you came from when you are the CP looking over a "low timer" resume!
no
to the new guys treat them as you want to be eventually treated!No I'm not a low timer, Multiple ATPL's with an education and a passion for fun professional aviation
Good Hunting!
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wha happen
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:39 am
Firts of all, I think that we need to stop filling everyones head full of these illusions that yellowknife is the mecca for aviation. At one point in time it was, but the early 90's are in the past. I am fairly certain that we will never see the industry in that situation again, hopeing, but probably not. So even though yellowknife was the place to go at one point in time, not any more. Open your eyes, let it go.
Take everyones advice on here and look at the facts.
1. 3 -5 years on the ramp
2. market is saturated with pilots
Unless you are high time with the PPC's, id steer clear.
As for going to North Wright, unless you graduated from seneca or some other flight college, they wont even give you the time of day. Check out some of the other threads on here, there was a pretty good discussion on this topic a few weeks back.
And as for not wanting to instruct. I agree that if your heart isnt in it that you should not do it, but, sometimes this may be the best option. NOw im not going to argue the pros and cons to instucting, this has been done enough in the past.
Take everyones advice on here and look at the facts.
1. 3 -5 years on the ramp
2. market is saturated with pilots
Unless you are high time with the PPC's, id steer clear.
As for going to North Wright, unless you graduated from seneca or some other flight college, they wont even give you the time of day. Check out some of the other threads on here, there was a pretty good discussion on this topic a few weeks back.
And as for not wanting to instruct. I agree that if your heart isnt in it that you should not do it, but, sometimes this may be the best option. NOw im not going to argue the pros and cons to instucting, this has been done enough in the past.
