Living wages..

[grouchy]

What does everyone here think a good wage should be? I'm not speaking strictly aviation, but rather what is a living wage? I was reading the string where one guy thought $14,000.00 was a good wage for an fo on a ho. Can't see it myself.
Somebody mentioned GM lineworkers making $80,000.00. What should a person expect for a wage?
I'm not after the old supply and demand economics 101 thing, it's getting old.
I don't expect to have a million dollars in the bank at the end of the year, I wouldn't mind, but what's fair?

[neverfail]

Really depends on where you are living.

In the city, maybe $30,000 in the middle of nowhere with cheap housing maybe $20,000.

[lost up north]

2003, the average household income in canada was$56000. How can you say that a living wage is $20000, country /city or even in your parents house. The high school kid flippin your big mac is macking $10000 working after school. Get your head out of your ass!!
The moment you get that aircraft off the ground and you have people's lives in your hands you should not have to worry about where supper is coming from!!!

Neverfail, you must be a manager!!!

[lost up north]

$7.25 being min wage in Canada
multiply by 40/hrs a week
=$290
multiplyby 52 weeks a year
=$15080 a year

Walmart greeter's make more money then that and how long did they go to school?

[water wings]

what's fair? doctors finally making more than hockey players, pilots making more than football players, MPs earning their keep... but life ain't fair...i think your question is valid, but there is no answer that will ever reflect reality. it's depressing, really.

[talkinghead]

What does everyone here think a good wage should be? I'm not speaking strictly aviation, but rather what is a living wage? I was reading the string where one guy thought $14,000.00 was a good wage for an fo on a ho. Can't see it myself.
Somebody mentioned GM lineworkers making $80,000.00. What should a person expect for a wage?
I'm not after the old supply and demand economics 101 thing, it's getting old.
I don't expect to have a million dollars in the bank at the end of the year, I wouldn't mind, but what's fair?

14 THOU. You got-to-be fucing kidding. That guy should be shot just for thinking that.
A quick google search got me this.

The minimum wage in Ontario has been frozen at $6.85/hour since 1995. In 2001, the poverty line for a single person living in a large city was $18,841. In contrast, the annual income of a person working 35 hours per week at the minimum wage is approximately $12,500 – 34% BELOW the poverty line!

Please dont work for less then 25-30 a year, its just not worth it. No matter what you are flying. jmho

cheers

[pilotbzh]

yep 25k should be the minimum for a first year, my first year with a instructor job i made 14k in 8 month, that's 8years ago....

[neverfail]

I was sorta thinking about the example of an f/o on a ho. When that is your first job, 20 to 30 is a good gig. There are HO captains that have been "lost up north" for years making less than that. Seriously a young kid with no wife/ kids doesn't need much more than that.

[lo flyer]

well said talkinghead. Whoever said that 14 k was good pay SHOULD be shot. Me thinks a 15 yr old student pilot said that! (at least I hope....)

[lost up north]

Seriously a young kid with no wife/ kids doesn't need much more than that.

Do you really need a car to get to work? Do you really need that snow goose? Do you really need that headset? YES I DO!!!

How do you think it looks to the people who are about to get on your airplane when you show up in your 1986 k-car with the duct tape holding the fender on but he doesn"t need much more then that right??
Funny I thought we where trying to be professionals[/quote]

[NoneSoBlind]

Much depends on the way you live!!! If you crave the cottage , the boat, the TT, C.C. membership, the finely furnished house, the trophy wife et al the toys, you are gonna need minimum 25,000 per month before taxes my friend. If you live simply so that others may simply live then a route de papier and its attendent pittance will suffice. Vive le difference!!!

[M4A1]

Seriously a young kid with no wife/ kids doesn't need much more than that.

Do you really need a car to get to work? Do you really need that snow goose? Do you really need that headset? YES I DO!!!

How do you think it looks to the people who are about to get on your airplane when you show up in your 1986 k-car with the duct tape holding the fender on but he doesn"t need much more then that right??
Funny I thought we where trying to be professionals

[/quote]


LOL

[Driving Rain]

I was reading the string where one guy thought $14,000.00 was a good wage for an fo on a ho. Can't see it myself.

That really isn't too bad a wage if your living with your parents.

[talkinghead]

.....and in high school

[.80@410]

Friend, 30, fresh Masters, US citizensip. Just sent in her application for:

Director of HR, Tampa, $90,000 to start. Signing bonus, relocation expenses. Beachfront living. To be Eye candy?

Another friend, Ford assemby line. $75,000 , 4 on/ 3 off, 12 hour shift.
Before overtime.

[canoe]

At least 2000/month. And that i would say is the bare minimum on which should be considered a starting wage with a company, wether ramp, f/o, instructing, dock, or cargo in a 180. The only way i could see accepting less is if the company paid mileage, or provided room and board. To me, it is important to have money to have a life outside of work (ie: enjoy having a beer with the boys without thinking "there goes my grocery money"), even if you're lucky enough to enjoy your job!!!!!!

Funny, the couple of guys who were defending 14000-16000/year as an acceptable wage on the other thread, don't seem to be piping up here defending their opinion???

[Trippin @350]

What should be the fair starting point at WestJet or Jazz? Let's wait and see if the pilot contracts that are due for renegotiating this year at WJ will yield more dough for the newbies.

[e300d]

From airlinepilotpay.com, for example, it says that a 1st year A320 FO at AC will make $42900 per year. Now is there anything else on top of that salary?> Per diems ?

Could someone explain in more detail?

Thanks

[nicked]

I can't tell what a good wage is, neither can you, but one thing is sure: CPL and ATPL holders are fucked big time by their boss... these days, you can do any crap-job and get a better paycheck than any pilot starting his career. this makes absolutely no sense.
and we go on this way, because "we need a job!"........ crap.

i thought that Quebec was the only cock-sucking province where pilots fly for free, but i recently read an ad in Canadian Aviator, posted by a lodge in Flin-Flon. It was called "Float time for your time", and basically, you could expect to do about 20 hours on C185, if you meet the following requirements:
- do your 50-hour float course in Nanaimo (+- 7500$)
- "work" at/for the lodge during summer: 6 days/week, 10 hours/day, 10 weeks, and you get no paycheck for this, but, hey, you have room and board! wow, they are so generous! they let you work for free at their shitty gift shop, and they feed you?!!!! Sign me up!)

and, more-over, there are only 20 persons allowed on this wonderfull program, so hurry and sign up!
20 times +- 7500$ gives a lot of fresh $$$

I worked my ass out to earn my CPL mutli-ifr, but i'm moving to ATC because nobody in commercial aviation can offer what I assume to be decent conditions. I'll keep my licences so i can fly my own aircraft, the one that ATC wage will allow me to possess, very soon. I'm not dreaming. I can live with very little, and they offer me way too much.
At last, my superior brain will have something to do and get a nice reward for his job!

[shimmydampner]

Really depends on where you are living.

In the city, maybe $30,000 in the middle of nowhere with cheap housing maybe $20,000.

WTF?? Are you f***ing serious? $20,000 in the middle of nowhere? Have you ever worked and lived in the middle of nowhere? I've spent 3 consecutive summers in different places, all of them varying degrees of 'the middle of nowhere.' First of all, if you're living and working in the middle of nowhere, you should be compensated well for it. You're giving up alot of amenities and little things that you take for granted otherwise. Cabin fever sets in quicker than you may think. Try living for a month without so much as even seeing any female other than the scraggle-toothed squaws you fly from Reserve A to Point B. You'll quickly see what I mean. Once you come back to civilization, you'll be hypnotized by the sight of a normal woman rollerblading on a summer afternoon or whatever it is that floats your boat. How about being able to hit the beer store and come home and drink a case of beer on the deck with your buds? And what about entertainment? I like fishing and playing x-box, but when they're the only two forms of entertainment available, even they get old real fast. How about just the simple fact that there's nowhere to go and nothing to do. You are stuck where you are for the duration. The many little things definitely add up. Not to mention housing in the middle of nowhere may not necessarily be cheap unless the company is putting you up. Regardless, even if they are, are you aware that the cost of groceries and essentials increases the closer you get to the middle of nowhere? Take a walk down the aisles of any Northern Store, especially the ones with no road access, and take a peek at some of the prices on your everyday items. I love a cold glass of iced tea on a hot summer day, but at $7.35 cents for a 2 litre jug of the stuff, I don't think so. Now, $30,000 still sucks once the goddam government takes their pound of flesh and you factor in all your other expenses. You'll probably be just getting by, but no matter where you are and what you fly that should be the BARE MINIMUM.

End of rant.

[maniac779]

To me, it is important to have money to have a life outside of work (ie: enjoy having a beer with the boys without thinking "there goes my grocery money"), even if you're lucky enough to enjoy your job!!!!!!

Damn right. I may love my job, but my love of flying isn't going to pay the bills.

[U/S]

14k may well be enough for some kid still living with their parents but most of us don't. And therein lies the problem. Some kid will accept a job making 14k as a ho fo and the employer now has slave labour and will keep paying that out as long as people will work there. Company B who pays a more reasonable 24k cannot compete, sees the crap wages people work for and says "if they can get away with it so can I" and drop the salary. And the big shitball keeps rolling because when mommy's boy gets a few hours under his belt and is offered a King Air at 20k, "holy sh!t a 40% pay raise I'll take it" etc etc. We should curb the supply of pilots until supply is more in line with demand and then even if dick wad would have taken the job for 14k he'll be offered 24k because there aren't 100 mommy's boys bent over the bosses desk begging for the job.