AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
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AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
I guess were going to have some competition this winter...
http://www.cnxmarketlink.com/en/release ... c5815.html
http://www.cnxmarketlink.com/en/release ... c5815.html
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Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Note to SD - GO GET A WIDEBODY!
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Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
rudder wrote:Note to SD - GO GET A WIDEBODY!
Note to SD - DON'T LISTEN TO RUDDER!
I'm just bustin' your chops rudder....but in all seriousness going to a widebody fleet for WestJet I think is the absolute worst route...if anything they should be going to smaller aircraft and stick to what they are good at. Domestic. That being said WestJet have done alot of things right over the years so maybe they could make it work.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
The domestic market is a finite market. Increased market share will only come from poaching somebody else's pax (AC?)Troubleshot wrote:rudder wrote:Note to SD - GO GET A WIDEBODY!
Note to SD - DON'T LISTEN TO RUDDER!
I'm just bustin' your chops rudder....but in all seriousness going to a widebody fleet for WestJet I think is the absolute worst route...if anything they should be going to smaller aircraft and stick to what they are good at. Domestic. That being said WestJet have done alot of things right over the years so maybe they could make it work.
The suggestion to go widebody is to allow for new routes based on range

Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Who knows, maybe this will be the trigger for WJ getting wide bodies. I guess we'll see how well AC does on the route.
Drinking outside the box.
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Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
A B763 is the best(stand up) if you gotta piss out a jug of Alexander Keith's Red especially departing from YHZ. For that privilege , I always be in-depthed to AC.




Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Maybe it's a tactic to try to strong arm us into getting widebodies.Four1oh wrote:Who knows, maybe this will be the trigger for WJ getting wide bodies. I guess we'll see how well AC does on the route.
Now's not the right time though. Just my opinion.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
I think it's good to have competition. We will have to see how they operate on this route. If they start trying to hurt WJ by undercutting us with our own tax dollars, im going to be a little pissed. Time will tell.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
So its good to have competition but only only if it doesn't hurt WS?balfour wrote:I think it's good to have competition. We will have to see how they operate on this route. If they start trying to hurt WJ by undercutting us with our own tax dollars, im going to be a little pissed. Time will tell.

Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
No you missed my point there snappy.
When you use my tax dollars to undercut WJ because you have billions of "new found money" instead of competing fairly, that's what im talking about. Oh why do I waste my time, AC has always tried to put the other guy under since they were founded. Silly me.
Yes will have to see.

Yes will have to see.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
If AC tries to undercut WJ to a point that WJ only breaks even on these routes then thats fine. That means AC is running these routes 30% below cost and are doing damage to themselves. Competition is good right?
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
How do you figure that when nobody knows what the load factors will be? Undercutting suggest that prices will be below what is currently available. I believe it will be price matched.Legacy wrote:If AC tries to undercut WJ to a point that WJ only breaks even on these routes then thats fine. That means AC is running these routes 30% below cost and are doing damage to themselves. Competition is good right?
So when the government makes back their 12.75% on the loan do you expect that the tax payers will see some of that money?balfour wrote:I think it's good to have competition. We will have to see how they operate on this route. If they start trying to hurt WJ by undercutting us with our own tax dollars, im going to be a little pissed. Time will tell.
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Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Im not sure what the big deal is here.
WJ has quite ably competed with a host of carriers over its 13+ years who had the ability to operate n/s on routes where WJ could only operate one stop. WJ did quite well regardless as they were able to compete by offering low fares, by virture of their low costs. There were, and are a slew of families that are quite happy to pay 10-20% less and have a trip duration about 90-120 minutes longer. That's how WJ served the 2nd largest market in the country for years. The same concept was fundamental to Southwest's original business plan.
WJ has seen a number of airlines with cheap fares try Alberta - Hawaii non-stop over the past few years. Transat tried it last year, Harmony did it out of Kelowna, Edmonton and Calgary for a few seasons. Both had cheap fares and reasonable flight times. Neither did well.
I recall one of the legacy airlines last operated Calgary - Honolulu the winter of 2000 outbound on Friday, Saturday and Sunday with a 19:15 departure and a 23:15 arrival, and Sat, Sun and Monday with a 1:15am departure and 10:35am arrival. They also operated Toronto-Honolulu daily, a 10 hour sector, with an 18:25 departure and 23:25 arrival, and a 1:00am departure and 14:53 arrival. I believe both experiments lasted a season before they were reconsolidated to Vancouver.
I can't see why WJ would go to the trouble and bother of adding an expensive aircraft to the fleet, designed to fly 14-16 hr sectors with multiple classes of service, and then throw them on short 7 hour sectors on routes with notoriously low yields.
I would imagine WJ is quite happy to own the west coast to Hawaii market, operated in a fleet of 160 seater aircraft, flying merrily back and forth with 6.5 cent casm, average one way fares well under $250 with a break-even around 67%, making double digit margins in the dead of winter.

WJ has quite ably competed with a host of carriers over its 13+ years who had the ability to operate n/s on routes where WJ could only operate one stop. WJ did quite well regardless as they were able to compete by offering low fares, by virture of their low costs. There were, and are a slew of families that are quite happy to pay 10-20% less and have a trip duration about 90-120 minutes longer. That's how WJ served the 2nd largest market in the country for years. The same concept was fundamental to Southwest's original business plan.
WJ has seen a number of airlines with cheap fares try Alberta - Hawaii non-stop over the past few years. Transat tried it last year, Harmony did it out of Kelowna, Edmonton and Calgary for a few seasons. Both had cheap fares and reasonable flight times. Neither did well.
I recall one of the legacy airlines last operated Calgary - Honolulu the winter of 2000 outbound on Friday, Saturday and Sunday with a 19:15 departure and a 23:15 arrival, and Sat, Sun and Monday with a 1:15am departure and 10:35am arrival. They also operated Toronto-Honolulu daily, a 10 hour sector, with an 18:25 departure and 23:25 arrival, and a 1:00am departure and 14:53 arrival. I believe both experiments lasted a season before they were reconsolidated to Vancouver.
I can't see why WJ would go to the trouble and bother of adding an expensive aircraft to the fleet, designed to fly 14-16 hr sectors with multiple classes of service, and then throw them on short 7 hour sectors on routes with notoriously low yields.
I would imagine WJ is quite happy to own the west coast to Hawaii market, operated in a fleet of 160 seater aircraft, flying merrily back and forth with 6.5 cent casm, average one way fares well under $250 with a break-even around 67%, making double digit margins in the dead of winter.

Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Not being Snappy, just questioning. Don't worry nobody is using your tax dollars! Not sure how starting a new route equals your tax dollars being used. Maybe AC should be privatized.......oh thats right they are!balfour wrote:No you missed my point there snappy.When you use my tax dollars to undercut WJ because you have billions of "new found money" instead of competing fairly, that's what im talking about. Oh why do I waste my time, AC has always tried to put the other guy under since they were founded. Silly me.
Yes will have to see.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Whiteguy, you did hear about the 1 billion dollar loan AC secured with the government... right? That's what he's talking about.
Drinking outside the box.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Nope. Refresh my memory. I did hear about a $400 million LOAN and $600 million in restructuring from other sources. Since when is a "loan" giving away tax payers money?Four1oh wrote:Whiteguy, you did hear about the 1 billion dollar loan AC secured with the government... right? That's what he's talking about.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Negative ghost rider. AC secured 1 billion in club loans from SEVERAL lenders. The Canadian government's loan (at an interest rate just under that of a loan shark) is $250 million ($100 million directly from the government and another $150 through Export Development Canada). The biggest contribution to AC's piss poor management came on the backs of the employees who are forgiving pension shortfall payments for 21 months... hopefully, the markets improve in that time frame and AC wont be facing any pension shortfall.Four1oh wrote:Whiteguy, you did hear about the 1 billion dollar loan AC secured with the government... right? That's what he's talking about.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Guys,
Please don't cloud 41 O's mind with facts. It makes for a boring thread!
Please don't cloud 41 O's mind with facts. It makes for a boring thread!
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
+1Realitychex wrote:
I can't see why WJ would go to the trouble and bother of adding an expensive aircraft to the fleet, designed to fly 14-16 hr sectors with multiple classes of service, and then throw them on short 7 hour sectors on routes with notoriously low yields.
bmc
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
55 bucks one way!whiteguy wrote: So its good to have competition but only only if it doesn't hurt WS?Maybe we should watch and see how WS will operate this route now.

Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
As demand picks up, watch how long that price stays there.FICU wrote:55 bucks one way!whiteguy wrote: So its good to have competition but only only if it doesn't hurt WS?Maybe we should watch and see how WS will operate this route now.
bmc
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
oops, yeah you're right, my bad. Still though, that money is only a loan if it get's paid back. I am concerned that the money will be squandered with no plan for repayment. The reason I say that is will AC be able to make the payments on 12.5% interest?yycflyguy wrote:Negative ghost rider. AC secured 1 billion in club loans from SEVERAL lenders. The Canadian government's loan (at an interest rate just under that of a loan shark) is $250 million ($100 million directly from the government and another $150 through Export Development Canada). The biggest contribution to AC's piss poor management came on the backs of the employees who are forgiving pension shortfall payments for 21 months... hopefully, the markets improve in that time frame and AC wont be facing any pension shortfall.Four1oh wrote:Whiteguy, you did hear about the 1 billion dollar loan AC secured with the government... right? That's what he's talking about.
Drinking outside the box.
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Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
I think the real question will be the pension payments ever be resumed. We'll have to see if they can even take care of their own people first before us taxpayers will ever see a dime of our money repaid especially at 12.5% interest. Don't think half empty 767s to Hawaii will do it.
Re: AC announces non stop Calgary to Hawaii
Just a quick thought...Realitychex wrote: WJ has seen a number of airlines with cheap fares try Alberta - Hawaii non-stop over the past few years. Transat tried it last year, Harmony did it out of Kelowna, Edmonton and Calgary for a few seasons. Both had cheap fares and reasonable flight times. Neither did well.
Although obviously HMY a whole was not successful, the story I heard (from a good source) is that the YYC-Hawaii routes were always a strong point in their route network, in both load factor and in yields. My understanding is that HMY planned to do Hawaii right from the start - delaying initially only until they received their ETOPS. I believe AC didn't serve it at the time and WJ couldn't reach with their 37's.