Feet on the floor or on the rudders

[KAG]

Had an interesting conversation with a CPT recently when he noticed I (like him) takeoff and land with my feet on the rudders, the entire time. Most have their feet on the floor and transition them up onto the rudder when they want to apply brake. While we do the entire takeoff and landing with our feet already on them, using the balls to work the rudder, and when I want break I just roll it on.
I find I have better control/feel over rudders/break this way, and I find guys that keep their feet on the floor, there is a momentary swing of the tail in Xwinds while they find the inputs again. I find it sloppy compared to the feet on rudders, But this is the predominate method.

I have had pilots over the years (one as recent as last month) tell me I’m doing it wrong, but have I’ve never had any control issues. While with trying to transition from floor to top of pedal, I’ve gotten my treads caught and lost the feel and some control while I repositioned them.

What are your thoughts.

[HS-748 2A]

I think, anybody whos' ever flown a tail dragger would never be able keep their feet on the floor during t/o.

I've seen it too though and always thought it looked sloppy.

I was also a pax in a Single Otter not too long ago and the pilot did not use rudder, (or enough rudder), when he had to raise a wing to keep the thing level.

The effect was, I'm looking out the window, watching the wigtip saw back and forth everytime he went to level it.

Nauseating.

[ahramin]

While I'm not as stumpy as JC, I am short enough that I have to be careful with pedal and seat position or I will not be able to get full deflection in all conditions. With my entire feet on the rudders, it is harder to get full travel. On the ground or landing i use the whole feet on the pedals, but in the air I have my heels on the floor and just push with the ball.

Agree that the transition from one to the other is problematic. I do the transition on final.

[iflyforpie]

HS748-2A, I think he meant heels on the floor, toes on the pedals but not the brakes.



When I started flying, I kept my heels on the floor because I found I was too tense and landed with the brakes on.

Now, I keep my feet on the pedals because it gives me better control.

Of course, on an aircraft like a Citabria with heel brakes, it is a moot point...

[nortont]

I think it all depends on the Rudder pedals themselves too.... the angle at which the pedals are in relation to the angle of your feet...

[HS-748 2A]

iflyforpie, you're right. KAG, I didn't read carefully enough.

I have seen people T/O in nose-wheel-tiller steered A/C with their feet pretty much flat on the floor though.

[LNAV+V]

Depends on the plane, a 152 wont require the muscle a twin otter is going to need in a cross wind. Also, depends on whether your plane has reverse. Immediate breaking is usually not necessary when you use reverse.

[Changes in Latitudes]

I've always kept my heels on the floor under the condition that I wear shoes or boots that allow me to make the transition smoothly (I've taken back shoes after getting in the plane and trying a dry run).

That's funny that you were told you were doing wrong, I always thought I was doing it wrong. But after 13 years of doing it one way without any issues, I'd find it hard to reprogram myself to do it another way, at least until I can justify it.

[. ._]

When first learning to fly, the instructors always told me not to land with my full feet on the pedals, because it's too easy to land with the brakes on.

I figure, either way is OK as long as you don't land with the toe brakes on. Just make sure you don't do it.

It would be interesting to hear Cat Driver's opinion on this or some other grey haired pilot. They would know best, I would think.

I think I'll just fly floats to be safe and not land with brakes on.

-istp

[iflyforpie]

I think I'll just fly floats to be safe and not land with brakes on.

-istp

Ha!

I remember my first float lesson. I started up the plane and it started to move, so I pushed harder on the pedals. My instructor said: "I don't think you are pushing hard enough, we are still moving."

A few years later, running a 180 with the keels on the dirt, I made sure I had my feet on the brakes before running it up.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It would be interesting to hear Cat Driver's opinion on this or some other grey haired pilot.

ISTP when landing or taking off I use rudder for directional control and find I have better feel with my heels on the floor in most airplanes.

If you can not transition from heels on the floor to toes on the brakes without losing control if you need brake to supplement rudder you are behind the thing and it is already driving you.

[KAG]

., this is the thought I've come across. Maybe in the old school planes, but not the NG or the RJ. Could be rudder pedal design/size, or maybe it just works for you, like the opposite works for me.
I've tried to slide my size 11's from the floor to thetoe break with varying degrees of sucess. Maybe it's the treads of the boots, may not, either way as a passenger, I can tell when someone tries it and loses it for a moment.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

KAG for sure different airplanes will make foot position on the rudders different.

The best method to use is the method you are most comfortable with.

I developed my methods from the early days flying crop dusters such as the Super Cub and the Stearman and thousands of hours driving the DC3.

Do not take my methods as being any better than what you feel best doing,... the name of the game is drive the airplane don't let it drive you.

[MUSKEG]

Amen, lets eat!!! Can't be put any better.

[2R]

If you are paying for the brakes and tires do what you want .
If i am paying for the brakes and tires, your heels better be on the floor

[Siddley Hawker]

Great thing about the Hawker was if you lost an engine you kept your feet on the floor. Rudder bias is a wonderful thing.

[Bushav8er]

Heels on the floor, toes on the (lower) pedals, up only to brake - always. Its a 3 axis machine...with brakes. You are not controlling the aircraft if your only using 2 axis.

[black hole]

My feet have a mind of their own. I cant remember for the life of me; what they do (weather toe brakes or heal brakes) But they haven't failed me in 32 years.

BH

[paydaymayday]

I sit in the King Air with the seat all the way back and I can still get a full deflection with a slight bend in my knee. My heels are on the floor so I don't accidentally apply brake; should I need to, I just slide my foot up the pedal slightly.

[x-wind]

I have my heels on the floor.

One thing I've noticed in a Pa-310 (both props are rotating the same way) is that I can't tap the brakes before I retract the gear without causing a bit of adverse yaw when I move my heels up and off the floor. To make it feel perfect in the back I haven't been tapping the brakes but it bugs me a bit.

Cheers,

[Tibor]

What do you mean by rudders???? what are those????


on a totally unrelated note.....does anyone know why that little black ball won't stay between those little black lines under the attitude indicator?

[Flywest]

I guess it depends on personal preference/comfort.

From my perspective I have to disagree with KAG, I think the rudder pedal design in the NG is terrible compared to other Boeings. (Not to mention the seat, but that's another thread in itself.....)

I find the pedals far to vertical. It's difficult for me to ensure that I'm only putting pressure on the lower part of the pedal and not the brakes. If the pedals were to be canted forward slightly, I would probably find it easier to keep my heels off the floor.

The catch is that with the pedals so vertical it's also a little bit harder to transition your heels off the floor and up onto the brakes. The only saving grace is that the autobrakes activate quickly to start the initial brake application so there's no rush to reposition.

But, like I said that's just my view. The next Pilot might have a completely different opinion.

[KAG]

The reason I started this thread was to see what the general opinion is. To be honest I was expecting the poll to be greatly favoring the heels on floor technique, as I have had this pointed out to me a few times.

My personal technique is I have the ball of my foot at the bottom of the rudder, toes pointed back. I am steering with the balls of my feet, and when I need to break in any situation, there is no clumsy transition, I just roll it on.

I guess the moral of the story is what ever works for you. As long as it’s controlled, smooth, and you’re not causing wear and tear, who’s to stay definitively which way is the correct way.


Tibor, I too have wondered what that ball is. PFM I guess.

[rsandor]

Feet 100% on rudder, steer with the balls of your feet, brake with your toes. Far more control that way. That's the way they were designed, imho, that's the way they should be used.

However, if you aren't the most nimble-footed pilot, I can see where you might want to keep your toes away from the brakes until you need to use them, although I would hesitate to force this restriction upon others unless they too prove to have the same inadequacy.

Also I can imagine there are some planes with pedals that are just plain cumbersome and might require the above strategy regardless of how much of a hot shoe you are.

[Cap'n P8]

I keep my feet on the pedals all the time too now, for take off and landing. I used to leave them on the floor, but had the same problem with the soles catching as I tried to slide up for the brakes, which meant I had to take pressure off the pedals to move them up. If there is a cross-wind then you know what will happen in this situation, you will do a waggle.