ICAO TC FAA to JAA license

[liveagain]

Hi everybody,

I start a new topic (that is not really new !) to share what I've found about convert a Transport Canada or FAA licenses into JAA license.

First, this link about Bristol Groundschool is very informative about requirements, Distance Learning and others things.

http://www.youtube.com/bristolgroundschool

Furthermore, I Copy-Paste a part of an e-mail I had with Bristol staff :

Option1. Thank you for your e-mail and interest in Bristol Groundschool. Please visit
our web-site for full details on how to convert your current licence and the
requirements. www.bristol.gs I believe you will need to sit and pass all 14
exams at ATPL level but do not have to complete an approved course of
training as you hold a foreign ATPL already.

Options 2.You may only be required to pass the Air Law & Human Performance exams for
UK registered Aircraft.
This can be confirmed by visiting our web-site under requirements. Any
further licence queries should be e-mailed to Flight Crew Licensing
fclweb@srg.caa.co.uk at the UK CAA.

The Options 2 is only for those who have big jet time and at least 1500 PIC and 3000 hrs TT.

I'll start another page later....every comments and remarks will be welcome !

[liveagain]

And the duration of each exams

Air Law (75 Qs) 1hr 40
Aircraft General Knowledge - Airframes & Systems, Electrics & Powerplant (76
Qs) 2hrs
Aircraft General Knowledge - Instrumentation (56 Qs) 1hr 30
Flight Performance & Planning - Mass & Balance (22 Qs) 1 hr
Flight Performance & Planning - Performance (34 Qs) 1 hr
Flight Performance & Planning - Flight Planning & Monitoring (56 Qs) 3 hrs
Human Performance & Limitations (47 Qs) 1 hr
Meteorology (90 Qs) 2 hr 30
General Navigation (54 Qs) 2 hrs
Radio Navigation (59 Qs) 1hrs 30
Operational Procedures (50 Qs) 1 hr 20
Principles of Flight (44 Qs) 1 hr
VFR Communications (23 Qs) 30 min
IFR Communications (23 Qs) 30 min

[liveagain]

More...

We have to consider the price to sit 14 exams :

I have found from 50$Can each (in Switzerland) to 120$Can each (in England) so it's between 600$ and 1700$ !!

Medical certificate costs close to 600$

I'm wondering about "convert" a CAA UK to a Switzerland or French license or conversely. I understand that every member of JAA has an agreement allowing reciprocity. It seems to be only administrative but I don't know the delay and costs.

that's it !

[DAVE THE RAVE]

I'm wondering about "convert" a CAA UK to a Switzerland or French license or conversely. I understand that every member of JAA has an agreement allowing reciprocity. It seems to be only administrative but I don't know the delay and costs.

If you have a flight crew licence issued from a JAA member state and issued in accordance with JAR-FCL, it is directly transferable with any other member state. The time and cost denpends on what state's licence you are trying to obtain. Your current issuing authority must send your flight crew and medical records to the desired state. This can be as little as 2 weeks up to 2 months. The cost of transfering a JAA member state to a UK CAA JAA licence is roughly $500 CDN.

Usually, the airline you are wanting to work for will want you to have the licence consistent with their own state of registry. This wouldn't restrict you from their interview process, but some of them would expect you to transfer your licence as a condidtion of employment. EU paperwork exercise.

[liveagain]

Thank you DAVE,

Wondering if someone has used the "1500 hours on two pilots aircraft" :

Experienced In Two Pilot Operations

•more than 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft,
•are type rated already and

•have more than 500 hours on type
you need to pass all 14 ground exams but don't need to attend a formal groundschool course. You may take a skills test on the aircraft you are rated on or you may choose to take two separate tests, a skills test for license issue and an IR conversion.

I have seen somewhere that this requirement could be applied to one pilot certified aircraft (as King Air 200) but operated with 2 pilots as required by Operating Certificate.
I sent an e-mail to CAA UK and CAA Switzerland to have an answer but nothing yet.

I'd like to know if someone has used this manner to get his license and if someone has used a King Air 200 (or another aircraft certified one pilot BUT operated two pilots) to be exempted from 15 hours training.

Thanks !!

[DAVE THE RAVE]

Here are the ways to convert your TCCA Licence to a JAA Licence:

1. If you hold a Canadian ATPL with a valid type rating and more than 1500 hours on type, you may apply for a validation. The validation is restricted to a specific operator and type. Normally the respective authority will give you 1 year in order to complete the 14 exams. You will also need to complete a JAA medical to validate your Canadian licence within the JAA.

2. You hold a Canadian CPL/ATPL .
a. Pass JAA Class 1 Medical
b. Attend or complete distance learning ATPL ground school (750 hrs) Exempt if you have an ICAO CPL/ATPL
c. Pass 14 Theory Exams
d. Pass the CPL/MEIR Skills test
e. Complete Multi Crew Co-Operation Course aka. MCC (Exempt if you have 500 hrs muti-crew, no to be mistaken as multi engine time)

The 15 hour exemption applies if you hold a valid Instrument rating. Normally the authority will waive the 15 hours instruction needed before applying for the instrument rating.

[unregistered]

G1.5 JAR-FCL ATPL(A) CONVERSION OF A
NON-JAA PROFESSIONAL LICENCE

A professional pilot licence issued by a non-JAA State
may be converted to a JAR-FCL licence provided that an
arrangement exists between the JAA and the non-JAA
State. This arrangement shall be established on the basis
of reciprocity of licence acceptance and shall ensure that
an equivalent level of safety exists between the training
and testing requirements of the JAA and non-JAA State.
Until such arrangements exist, the following requirements
have been agreed by the JAA and are now incorporated
in JAR-FCL 1.016.

Non-JAA ATPL(A)
The holder of a current and valid ATPL(A) issued in
accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State
may be issued with a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) providing the
experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.280 have been
met. Applicants’ must:-

• hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical certificate;
• Undertake ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge
instruction as determined by the Head of Training
of an approved training provider, and pass ALL of
the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations
at ATPL(A) level;
• Qualify for the issue of a UK Flight Radiotelephony
Operator’s Licence (FRTOL) -Section B refers;
• Undertake a multi-pilot aeroplane type rating course
at an approved TRTO (see Section F, Appendix B for
a list of types);
• pass the ATPL(A) skill test in accordance with
Appendices 1 and 2 to JAR-FCL 1.240 and 1.295
with, or observed by, a CAA Flight Operations
Training Inspector*.
*Applicants for an observed flight test for the JAR-
FCL ATPL(A) wishing to be observed overseas should
note that this will only be considered where there is no
possibility of the test being conducted in the UK. The
applicant will be responsible for all expenses including:
travel time/airfares/hotel/subsistence as well as the
Training Inspectors overseas daily rate.

G1.5 Note 1

ATPL(A) holders who have a minimum of 1500 hours flying
experience as PIC or Co-pilot on multi-pilot aeroplanes
(or single-pilot aeroplanes operated by 2-pilots according
to operational requirements) and hold a valid multi-pilot
type rating for the aeroplane to be used for the ATPL(A)
skill test and have at least 500 hours experience as pilot
on that type, will be exempted from the requirements to
complete an approved TRTO course or undergo approved
training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge
examinations and the skill test.
The ATPL(A) Skill Test in this case will have a 12 month
validity for the purpose of licence issue.

Pilots who meet the 1500 hours flying experience (as
detailed above), with less than 500 hours experience as
pilot on the type to be used for the ATPL(A) Skill Test,
or do not hold a multi-pilot type rating will be exempted
from the requirements to undergo approved ground
and flying training prior to undertaking the theoretical
knowledge examinations. In both cases, they will be
required to complete an approved JAA type rating course
and if applicable, the course may be reduced to take into
account any previous experience on the same type upon
recommendation by the Head of Training of the TRTO to
PLD. An ATPL(A) Skill Test with, or observed by a CAA
Flight Operations Training Inspector will be required at
the end of the TRTO course. The ATPL(A) Skill Test in
this case will have a 6 month validity for the purpose of
licence issue.

G1.5 Note 2

Different terms apply to ATPL(A) holders with a minimum
of 3,000 hours flying experience as pilot of public
transport aircraft over 30,000kgs MTWA on scheduled
international or similar routes, including a minimum of
1,500 hours as Pilot-in-Command (Captain). Applicants
who believe they qualify should apply to PLD for a formal
written assessment using form SRG\1103 and enclosing
the appropriate fee, actual logbooks and non-UK licence
(with validating medical certificate if separate).
Applicants who qualify under these terms will be eligible
to complete reduced requirements for the issue of a JAR-
FCL ATPL(A). With regards to the theoretical knowledge
examinations requirement, a credit will be given towards
the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) examinations, with the exception
of Air Law and Human Performance and Limitations
examinations which will need to be passed. An applicant
who completes the reduced requirements will be issued
with a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) however, as this licence does
not fully comply with the requirements of JAR-FCL, the
holder is not entitled to automatic recognition accorded
to JAR-FCL.

The licence will therefore be issued with the following statement:

Valid for United Kingdom registered aircraft. As this
licence does not fully comply with JAR-FCL the holder
must have permission from any other JAA Member
State prior to exercising the licence privileges in aircraft
registered in that State.

This endorsement may be removed by obtaining a pass in
all JAR-FCL ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations.
(The 12 remaining JAR-FCL ATPL(A) examinations will be
classed as a new set and attempt and will be subject to the
pass standards as detailed in Section J1.5).

The holder of a current and valid ATPL(A) who does not
meet the experience requirements for the grant of a JAR-
FCL ATPL(A) can still apply for a JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR.
Details can be found in Section D1.5.

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

FYI - They wont recognize your Beechcraft 1900 type rating.

Good Luck!

[pa31t]

what if the B1900 is under two crew operations? Any contact email or link for further communications with any JAA member would be appreciated
Thanks

[DAVE THE RAVE]

what if the B1900 is under two crew operations?

If you have 500 hours or more in a B1900, and it is certified as a 2 pilot aircraft on the AOC, you may be granted an exemption from the MCC (Multi Crew Co-Operation) course.

In exceptional circumstances if you hold a type rating (B1900, B737, A320), you maybe granted a validation. In this case you will need to have over 1500 hours P1 or P2, and the validation is restricted to both a type and operator. In essence, it is used by operators who can not find pilots for their type in the JAA and need them rated ASAP. The authorities usually grant the validation on the basis that the pilot will completed the 14 ATPL theory exams with a year. Don't mistake a validation with a licence conversion.

[unregistered]

what if the B1900 is under two crew operations?

If you have 500 hours or more in a B1900, and it is certified as a 2 pilot aircraft on the AOC, you may be granted an exemption from the MCC (Multi Crew Co-Operation) course.

In exceptional circumstances if you hold a type rating (B1900, B737, A320), you maybe granted a validation. In this case you will need to have over 1500 hours P1 or P2, and the validation is restricted to both a type and operator. In essence, it is used by operators who can not find pilots for their type in the JAA and need them rated ASAP. The authorities usually grant the validation on the basis that the pilot will completed the 14 ATPL theory exams with a year. Don't mistake a validation with a licence conversion.

Sorry, I may have mislead you a little with that bit. 'Dave the Rave' is slightly incorrect though, the BE02 type rating in Canada cannot be used towards an FLVC (validation) as the Beech 1900 is not considered a JAR25 aircraft.

It meets the weight requirement, but was certified as a single pilot aircraft and therefore doesn't qualify. It is, essentially, considered a King Air. I think it falls under JAR23.

So if you have 1500 hours in Beech 1900's it won't help you getting an FLVC. Many people don't know that.

This thread might be of minor interest . . .

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-141790.html

The moral of the story is - just because you have a Canadian type rating on your Canadian licence, don't take for granted it will be recognized the same way by all authorities. Do your homework first.

Good luck in your studies!

[liveagain]

Thanks unregistered and Dave The Rave,

Your comments are very educational

That's the note 1, and what is in brackets, that let me thought I could be exempted from the requirements to
complete an approved TRTO course or undergo approved training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations and the skill test.

G1.5 Note 1
ATPL(A) holders who have a minimum of 1500 hours flying
experience as PIC or Co-pilot on multi-pilot aeroplanes
(or single-pilot aeroplanes operated by 2-pilots according
to operational requirements)

The BE20 (or the B1900) is one or two pilots certified aircraft but often (always ?) operated commercialy by 2 pilots according to operational requirements, insurance, AOC, customers... .

It's clear for me but I need a confirmation from CAA of the country where I sit 14 exams before to move there. It's expensive and time consuming so no place for doubt !

Nice day everybody

[pa31t]

Let us know with the results.
I'm sure there are a lot of people including myself want to find out about the B200 or the B1900D if CAA accepts them as two crew, cause my 2000+ on the 1900 it seems like they will go down the drain unfortunatelly.
Cheers

[DAVE THE RAVE]

Let us know with the results.
I'm sure there are a lot of people including myself want to find out about the B200 or the B1900D if CAA accepts them as two crew, cause my 2000+ on the 1900 it seems like they will go down the drain unfortunatelly.
Cheers

I think some confusion has come about.

To hold a JAA ATPL(A) you must have 500 hours multi-crew time and have completed a Licence Skill Test (LST) on a multi-pilot aircraft. For those who have B1900 or B200 time, the respective CAA may count this towards your multi crew time and may allow you to do an ATPL LST with your type rating LST. To get to this point of course you'd have to jump through the hoops previously mentioned in this thread. ie. medical, 14 exams, flight test

If you have B1900 of B200 time and the respective CAA doesn't count it as multi-crew time, then it's not the end of the world. You will be issued with a CPL(A) IR, and when you get 500 hours on type ie. A320/B737, you can do an LST for the issue of an ATPL as part of your regular LPC. The only extra item is a raw data manually flown ILS.

The 500 hour multi crew time may also exempt you from having to take the MCC course. The 500 hour exemption from having to complete a full type Rating training Organisation (TRTO) course, is for those pilots who have 500 hours on type ie. A320/B737. The don't need to complete the full syllabus for their type rating. Instead they'd do a condensed course.

[righthandman]

Hi guys...

I am very interested in this thread because:

-I hold a Canadian ATPL
-I wish to move to Europe (girlfriend lives there and I hate Canadian winters)
-I will have an E.U. passport soon (as I have Hungarian Citizenship paperwork)
-I have 2000 hrs+ as PIC on a B1900 (working for AirCreebec)
-I think all I need to do is the medical and learn and pass the 14 exams (planning on Bristol Ground School as they seem to be the way to go)

If anyone involved in this thread finds out additional definitive info. or amended info. regarding the applicability of my time in the B1900 with regards to the MultiCrew requirements (or anything else), I am all ears.

The whole things seems too damn complicated.

Also I am hearing some rumours that within 6 months?? Canada may have some sort of reciprocal agreement with the EASA to simplify things somewhat, similar to the current FAA reciprocal agreements, though I am not holding my breath.

[righthandman]

Actually I DO have a question on this.

Do I need a recommendation from a Flight Training Unit to sit and write the test, or can I just present myself for testing?

[oates76]

If anyone has any questions on the 14 JAA ground exams feel free to PM me. I've written them all within the last year, and can answer questions about BGS as well

[703opschief]

Hi Oates76,

You said you successfully completed the Bristol ground school. How did you find the course, the exams, the topics? Were there any in particular that were hard? How long did it take you from start to finish, how did you find the support and did you do it full time?

I am thinking about starting this full time as I hold both Canadian and EU passports.

Thanks!

[David Hasselhoff]

Got my JAA ATPL. T'was a bitch... had to fly to Europe to physically write my exams there... all while flying fulltime as a turbine captain... took me about a year.... hardest thing I ever had to study for in aviation....

Costs $50 (1000 Kc) to write all 14 exams...


Thats right... pay $50.... write all exams.... a minimal charge for re-doing 2nd attempts....


(dont try this unless you have a way of getting a czech resident card....need to live there at least 6 months)

More...

We have to consider the price to sit 14 exams :

I have found from 50$Can each (in Switzerland) to 120$Can each (in England) so it's between 600$ and 1700$ !!

Medical certificate costs close to 600$

I'm wondering about "convert" a CAA UK to a Switzerland or French license or conversely. I understand that every member of JAA has an agreement allowing reciprocity. It seems to be only administrative but I don't know the delay and costs.

that's it !

[lucky37]

Looking to do the conversion from Canadian ATPL to JAA ATPL. I have an EU passport and meet the JAA ATPL requirements as well as the requirements to be exempt from taking the approved groundschool.

From what I understand (according to LASORS G1.5), I have to study on my own and sit the 14 exams, then do the skill test in a simulator for the aircraft I'm currently type-rated on (DHC8). Sounds pretty straightforward (I know it won't be), but I'm trying to find out where to start.

I have a few questions to ask of those who have done this before. If you have some time I would greatly appreciate any advice you have.

STUDYING:
- what material did you use to study?
- where did you find/order this material?
- cost of study material?
- any comments on online question databases and their usefulness?
- any other advice you can think of?

EQUIPMENT:
- what rulers, E6B's, plotters, calculators did you use or what could you recommend?

EXAMS:
- where in Europe can they be written?
- do you have to reserve a space to write?
- should all 14 exams be done at once, or split up?

SKILL TEST:
- cost of booking simulator, co-pilot, instructor, examiner, etc?
- where did you do your skill test and can you recommend a place with DHC8 sims?
- not sure how to go about booking a simulator, any advice in that department?

MEDICAL:
- does this have to be done in Europe?
- how to and where to book?

COST:
- ballpark figure for total cost?

TIME/SUCCESS:
- how long did the process take?
- were you successful in finding a job with your new licence?

I have tried to search this information in this and other forums, but information is scarce, conflicting and not always useful or up-to-date.

I would greatly appreciate any bit of information you can provide.

Thank you.

[DAVE THE RAVE]

I would suggest you contact Oxford Air Academy or browse their website. They offer the ground school course and have DHC-8 sims, in turn they maybe able to tailor to your specific needs. As for the medical, you will have to get an intitial JAA Class 1 medical. They can only be done at specific locations. ie. In the UK at Gatwick. After the initial you can revalidate with any JAA AME.

Here is a link for Oxford. Good luck.

http://oaa.com/

[UKPilot]

Honestly, I would spend the money to go to Bristol ground school. They are incredibly good at what they do and considering how vast the topics are, having someone to narrow it down and then drill that information into you is a life saver. When I went there I believe it was around 2500 GBP. I split up the exams as well into 8 and then 6 as you're asking for a tough go to do them all at once.

[eyespie]

Honestly, I would spend the money to go to Bristol ground school. They are incredibly good at what they do and considering how vast the topics are, having someone to narrow it down and then drill that information into you is a life saver. When I went there I believe it was around 2500 GBP. I split up the exams as well into 8 and then 6 as you're asking for a tough go to do them all at once.

UKPilot - check your PMs. Thanks.