Kelowna C-152 crash

[Rotten Apple #1]

Link to story.

Small plane runs out of fuel - crashes
by Contributed - Story: 49560
Sep 16, 2009 / 10:36 am



Officials at the scene are suggesting the plane may have run out of fuel. They say human error may have been the cause of the crash. 11:27 a.m.

At approximately 10 a.m., Kelowna International Airport received a report that a small private aircraft with one person on board, had been required to perform an emergency landing one mile north of the airport, east of Duck Lake Road.

Kelowna Airport’s Aircraft Response Fire Fighting crews are on scene and assisting Kelowna Fire Department, BC Ambulance and RCMP.

There is no fuel leak and the scene has been contained.

No injuries are reported.

Transportation Safety Board has been advised.

Castanet editor Kelly Hayes reports live from the scene.

[iflyforpie]

Looks like Carson's. QDW or ONF?

Glad everyone is okay!

[The Wizard of OZ]

Gotta love the media My 150 always appears empty with the master off too!! Perhaps they should just wait for the facts before they guess at a probable cause. Oh wait, you couldn't sensationalize(sp) it then!

[HS-748 2A]

Looks like Carson's. QDW or ONF?

Glad everyone is okay!

C-GQDW

Gotta love the media My 150 always appears empty with the master off too!!

How about when it is upsidedown?

[metal]

^haha was just gonna mention the caption on the picture..

[Rotten Apple #1]

Plane may not have been re-fueled

by Kelly Hayes - Story: 49572
Sep 16, 2009 / 1:24 pm



Human error may be the cause of Wednesday morning's plane crash.

A Cessna 152 carrying only the pilot, crashed during an attempted emergency landing south of Beaver Lake Road in Winfield at around 10 a.m.

According to RCMP, the pilot indicated that he had taken off from the Kelowna airport and was headed to the Vernon area for a training flight when the plane's engine began to sputter.

The pilot indicated to the control tower that he was having engine problems and would be attempting to land in Kelowna. But the engine stalled and the pilot had no choice but to attempt to land in a farmer's field with a small dirt road running through the middle of it.

"He located a somewhat suitable area to attempt an emergency landing," says Constable Kris Clark. "The plane bounced a couple of times, the nose dug-in and it flipped onto its roof."

The pilot walked away from the wreckage unharmed and refused to talk to reporters before being taken from the scene by officials from the Southern Interior Flight Centre -- owners of the plane.

The training school did not return our calls amid growing speculation that the plane wasn't refueled prior to take off.

According to RCMP, the pilot did his pre-flight check but became distracted.

"He did his pre-flight checks as usual. He requested that the plane be refueled because he noticed that the fuel was low, went off to do a couple of more things and proceeded with his flight," says Clark.

The pilot doesn't do the refueling -- that's up to a private company.

Constable Clark says the pilot may have learned a valuable and expensive lesson.

"You can never assume -- you have to check it yourself."

The Transportation Safety Board is investigating.

The photo that accompanied the article. (Master Switch OFF as noted by poster above)

[Geko]

Upside down "belly" landing for the win!

Glad everyone is ok.

[Big Pistons Forever]

sigh...

Another 100 % preventable accident. The first half of my ex 22 PGI doesn't mention anything about actualy flying a forced approach. It is all about how not to cause the engine to fail in the first place, fuel management obvously being a big part of the discussion. My pet peeve is ask your average PPL student " how much flying time does 10 gals in a C 152 represent" and they probably could not give a sensible answer. Then ask them what 10 gals looks like on the fuel guages and another blank look is likely. This fundamentally a FTU and instructor problem. I would expect PPL students to, prior to taking off on a local flight, to tell me how much gas is in the airplane expressed 3 ways US gals , weight , and available flight time (based on 7 gal/hr for C 150/152 or 10 Gal/hr for C 172/PA 28). A vague "oh it looks like about half tanks" is simply not good enough, yet that is often the industry standard.

Sorry for the rant

[Flightlevels]

"Another 100 % preventable accident."
I'm sure you are the best Big Piston....you probably never make a mistake. Grow up dude.

[Geko]

sigh...

Another 100 % preventable accident. The first half of my ex 22 PGI doesn't mention anything about actualy flying a forced approach. It is all about how not to cause the engine to fail in the first place, fuel management obvously being a big part of the discussion. My pet peeve is ask your average PPL student " how much flying time does 10 gals in a C 152 represent" and they probably could not give a sensible answer. Then ask them what 10 gals looks like on the fuel guages and another blank look is likely. This fundamentally a FTU and instructor problem. I would expect PPL students to, prior to taking off on a local flight, to tell me how much gas is in the airplane expressed 3 ways US gals , weight , and available flight time (based on 7 gal/hr for C 150/152 or 10 Gal/hr for C 172/PA 28). A vague "oh it looks like about half tanks" is simply not good enough, yet that is often the industry standard.

Sorry for the rant

Bravo, I wish I'd had such a demanding instructor when I did my PPL. I was shocked when I realized that I hadn't been taught the proper way of leaning the mixture until I went up with a class 2 for my PPL flight test check out.

[Big Pistons Forever]

"Another 100 % preventable accident."
I'm sure you are the best Big Piston....you probably never make a mistake. Grow up dude.

I have never run out of fuel in 31 years of flying and do not plan to do so in the next 31 years. Why ? Because I always know how much fuel I have when I takeoff and how much I use inflight. I always land well before the later quantity exceeds the former. Practical fuel management can and should be taught from the first lesson. Instead teaching "fuel management" at many FTU's means obsessing about picayune procedures to calculate fuel required from the POH values down to the nearest .1 USG, yielding figures which are unobtainable in the real world and, in any event , ignored as soon as the engine is started.

Mod's: this thread should probably be moved to the training forum

[cgartly]

Looks like Carson's. QDW or ONF?

Glad everyone is okay!

ONF crashed back in February when two commercial pilot students (both PPL licensed) went on a flight and decided to let the one in the right seat land. Somethings was misjudged and the plane nosed over on the runway, it is has wing spar damage not to mention the prop strike so they are not repairing it.

My guess is QDW is also a write off.

Southern Interior used to have 7 aircraft, they are now down to 4. Will be interesting to see if they purchase any replacement aircraft. I'm guessing their insurance company isn't going to be too happy about two aircraft loss' in one year......

Southern has all kinds of stupid fee's but I believe they do have some good instructors.

This is just another case of a chain of events that went bad. The student pilot did his pre-flight checks, called for fuel, did some other pre-flight tasks and either forgot he was low on fuel or forgot to verify that the fuel company did indeed fuel the plane. I must admit I rarely look at the fuel gauges but I always dip the tanks and if I need fuel I always verify that the fuel company put in the right quantity and put the fuel caps back on tight.

The latest article can be found at http://www.castanet.net along with a video.

The instructors here do harp on the students about fuel but if the student doesn't follow the procedures I don't think you can really blame the instructors.

Southern Interior Flight Center is owned by Carson Air, which also own's the FBO in Kelowna.

My guess is there will be a new policy at SIFC that any instructor signing a student out will have to go and dip the tanks before the student leaves!

[iflyforpie]

I took my PPL back there in '01 and flew both QDW and ONF. I was so paranoid about fuel that I went with full tanks just about every time (especially in the 152s).

Just before I soloed, ZDD (one of their 172s) wound up in a similar position. That time it was failure to maintain centerline on a 200 ft wide runway and nosed over in the snow.

The picture with the rege was not up when I originally posted.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Mod's: this thread should probably be moved to the training forum

The problem with moving it to the training forum is there will be less experienced pilots to comment on this type of issue.

Flightlevels wrote:

"Another 100 % preventable accident."
I'm sure you are the best Big Piston....you probably never make a mistake. Grow up dude.

He has grown up " Dude " that is why he made the statement.

He is correct running out of fuel is preventable, all you have to do is have enough fuel before you start the flight.

Maybe 100% preventable is not exactly correct because sometimes there can be a mechanical problem such as a fuel leak that will cause you to run out of fuel but it is a rare occurrence.

[Doc]

Big Pistons.....I've been doing this for a while now, and I couldn't tell you what 10 gallons looks like on a 150/152 fuel gauge. I haven't been able to even buy a "gallon" of gas in this country for several years.
I've met high school grads who can't tell me how many inches there are in a foot! True.
U.S Gallons? WTF are U.S. gallons? Can't buy them here either!
Pounds, I know. Not metric, but we do deal in pounds. At least in aviation, and dope dealing.
I can, however tell you what "full" looks like. And "empty". Never actually seen "empty" on a gauge in flight....but pretty bloody close to it!
I flew Aztecs for a while, many years ago. The fuel gauges had an "E" on the left side, and an "F" on the right side. This was a infallible system!
I would suggest this system be used in all 150/152s rented to PPLs or student pilots when the aircraft is dispatched solo.
Don't even turn the key over to the renter until the FTU or renting facility has signed the fuel slip from the dude who filled the tanks. That would solve this problem.....at that level, at least.

[cgartly]

I took my PPL back there in '01 and flew both QDW and ONF. I was so paranoid about fuel that I went with full tanks just about every time (especially in the 152s).

Just before I soloed, ZDD (one of their 172s) wound up in a similar position. That time it was failure to maintain centerline on a 200 ft wide runway and nosed over in the snow.

The picture with the rege was not up when I originally posted.

I did not know about ZDD, however GZVY went down in the lake in either 2001 or 2002 due to a fuel mismanagement problem as well. A PPL pilot (Commerical Student) took his uncle and I believe cousin up for a sightseeing flight and neglected to put the fuel on both, he ran one tank dry and during his cause checks or lack thereof did not notice that fuel was not on both. He ended up doing a forced approach into Okanagan Lake (there was no where else but populated areas to go). Fortunately all of his passengers got out safely but unfortunately he did not and he died.

[Sulako]

I'm confused...the guy asked for fuel because the tanks were low and then didn't check to see if anyone had in fact applied gas to the tanks? Really? Surely somewhere in the 152 checklist is an item that says something like "check fuel amount" at least once or twice? How is it possible to be so distracted during the taxi and run-up that you don't remember to check the freakin' fuel level?

I'm sorry, but if the plane is healthy there is no excuse for ever running out of gas, period. I'm just glad buddy was okay. On the upside, I doubt the guy will ever make that particular mistake again. A near-death experience followed by public humiliation is a powerful motivator...

[Doc]

I'm confused...the guy asked for fuel because the tanks were low and then didn't check to see if anyone had in fact applied gas to the tanks? Really? Surely somewhere in the 152 checklist is an item that says something like "check fuel amount" at least once or twice? How is it possible to be so distracted during the taxi and run-up that you don't remember to check the freakin' fuel level?

I'm sorry, but if the plane is healthy there is no excuse for ever running out of gas, period. I'm just glad buddy was okay. On the upside, I doubt the guy will ever make that particular mistake again. A near-death experience followed by public humiliation is a powerful motivator...

I'm not surprised at all. In fact, I'm amazed it happens so infrequently! We have trained two pilot crews forgetting to lower the gear. Why would it be a shock to see PPL's and student pilots forgetting to check fuel levels?
To fix the problem, have the pilot sign for the fuel. Or have the FTU sign for it before releasing the airplane to the renter pilot.

[cgartly]

Being as though this was a PPL student pilot, would his SPP be revoked after something like this? I looked at the video on castanet and would like to think that a successful forced approach should have been able to be made where he landed without damage to the aircraft but who knows without being there and seeing the "bumps" and "rocks" maybe not. I have little soft field landing experience (three total actually).

It will be interesting to see if a student that goes through the whole ordeal, his fault or not (in this case it seems pretty clear it was his fault), is able mentally to go on and complete his PPL.

What would he have to prove to an instructor to be authorized to go Solo again?

Another possibility is that the fuel tanks were filled but the fuel "guy" didn't put the fuel caps back on securely and the fuel was siphoned out during flight. Again this would be the PIC's responsibility but another possibility. I always check the fuel level (by dipping, not looking at the gauge) after being refueled to ensure I got the right quantity of fuel and that the fuel caps are tight. I'm sure this guy will from now on as well.

[all_ramped_up]

I'm sorry, but if the plane is healthy there is no excuse for ever running out of gas, period. I'm just glad buddy was okay. On the upside, I doubt the guy will ever make that particular mistake again. A near-death experience followed by public humiliation is a powerful motivator...

Going to have to agree.

[freakonature]

The company that fuels these aircraft has implimented a safety system to try and reduce these situations.
1 Pilot of fueled aircraft must sign meter ticket to confirm fuel recieved.
2 If pilot is not present at fueling, a tag will be left on the aircraft stating it has been fueled.

[Busted]

It seems like there is no routine being taught to these students now....

I went to school there back in 95 96 and we were taught to DIP the tanks every time you got into the plane. Each and every plane had a dip stick and it was required if not inforced that you dip the tanks anytime you ordered gas. That was even if you watched the guy put it in.

I know you can get in a hurry but man - You have to look out for yourself as sure as hell no body else will. There are to many in this industry that will stab you in the back to get ahead.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Big Pistons.....I've been doing this for a while now, and I couldn't tell you what 10 gallons looks like on a 150/152 fuel gauge. I haven't been able to even buy a "gallon" of gas in this country for several years.
I've met high school grads who can't tell me how many inches there are in a foot! True.
U.S Gallons? WTF are U.S. gallons? Can't buy them here either!
Pounds, I know. Not metric, but we do deal in pounds. At least in aviation, and dope dealing.
I can, however tell you what "full" looks like. And "empty". Never actually seen "empty" on a gauge in flight....but pretty bloody close to it!
I flew Aztecs for a while, many years ago. The fuel gauges had an "E" on the left side, and an "F" on the right side. This was a infallible system!
I would suggest this system be used in all 150/152s rented to PPLs or student pilots when the aircraft is dispatched solo.
Don't even turn the key over to the renter until the FTU or renting facility has signed the fuel slip from the dude who filled the tanks. That would solve this problem.....at that level, at least.

Doc

The point of training is...... well training. Almost all the light aircraft used in flight training were built in the USA. All the POH data is in USG as are all the fuel placards. So I think it is important to get students to understand that fuel is accounted for in different ways. That is why in my earlier post I talked about students always
thinking about the fuel load in USG, pounds, and time. When they get into more sophisticated airplanes they can start to ignore the USG because the POH will have all capacity data in pounds (or kilo's). BTW 10 USGal represents just under half tanks in a C 152 ( 22 USGal standard tanks), 60 lbs, or 1.4 hrs of flying time (no reserve). An understanding I bet most PPL students have no real clue about because it does not ever get discussed in those practical ways....that was my point.

[AOtterstrom]

I did all my training on my own 150, and as a result it was up to me to deal with fuelling and checking the tanks. I learned to not even look at the gages as they are so inaccurate (even more so with the master off ). The only way to check is to dip the tanks. I thought this was common knowledge?

[beaverbob]

I could have easily run out of fuel in a Beaver one day a few years ago. I left Powell Lake with front and center tank and for some reason did a scan by Cortes Island, 25 miles away, and noticed the center gauge at 4 gallons. I suspected the gauge, but couldn't be sure and had a hunch to turn back to Powell Lake. I switched to the full front tank and by the time I was on approach to Powell Lake the front gauge was at 4 gallons on the gauge.
Good Hunch.
The carburetor float had fallen apart and the fuel was pumping out of the resultant hole in the side of the chamber into the slipstream under the plane.
thats 50 gallons gone in about 30 minutes
So it can happen to anybody in the right circumstances.
Bob