Hedley mentioned in this topic (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=58711) about air oil seperators. Specifically the M-20 series (http://www.m-20turbos.com/content/produ ... k=breather) and (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... oilsep.php) and (http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182522-1.html)
I havent been able to talk to my AME about it yet but Googling for some reviews brought me to this page (http://www.airwolf.com/Products/AirOilS ... fault.aspx). I havent been able to find much information about this product but they seem to knock the M-20 pretty good, whereas the M-20 doesnt even mention this guy. Anyone have experience with either/both of these that could compare the two. I know typically if company A has to knock company B, its usually not because B's product is inferior but...
That said my search failed to produce any reviews except for this one, which I had already read (http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182522-1.html)
Also, what is required in the installation of this device. Do I just buy the part from Spruce and hand it to my AME for installation? Do I need an STC also? (if so, how does that work)
Thanks,
air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
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office_supply
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
Wherever you place the seperator on your breather line make sure it is in a place that will stay warm. I had mine freeze shut. I noticed ice in the breather tube, it's a clear vinyl hose, just downstream of the seperator. I unbolted the seperator and drained a few ounces of slimy oil out once it unthawed. I subsequently threw the seperator in the garbage.
My engine has a plenum over the cylinders, O235, so the seperator being outside the plenum probably it didn't get sufficient heat in the winter to keep it from freezing. I also got rid of my oil cooler as in the winter I couldn't get the oil over 140 degrees.
My engine has a plenum over the cylinders, O235, so the seperator being outside the plenum probably it didn't get sufficient heat in the winter to keep it from freezing. I also got rid of my oil cooler as in the winter I couldn't get the oil over 140 degrees.
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kevinsky18
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
I have the Airwolf seperator on my plane. There was another one on before and it was a POS. I dont recall what make or model it was. The Airwolf has worked great I don't think I've lost a drop yet.
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black hole
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
The oil seperator was originaly used with the wet vacuum pump to circulate the oil used to lubricate the pump back to the engine and not on the belly of the aircraft. With the use of the dry vacuum pump it is not needed. Now: when you start a cold engine, and the oil starts to warm the first thing that goes out the crankcase vent is moisture from condensation ( thats a good thing). If you have an oil separator; that oily snot runs back into the engine.
Oh sure; it might keep you belly clean at what cost to your engine.
On the radial engines re: DHC-2 and -3 etc they had a SNOT BOX (Known by other names) that caught excess oil and moisture to keep it off the belly, and should be drained daily and disposed of in an enviromentally friendly way and it kept you belly clean. ( sort of)
BH
Oh sure; it might keep you belly clean at what cost to your engine.
On the radial engines re: DHC-2 and -3 etc they had a SNOT BOX (Known by other names) that caught excess oil and moisture to keep it off the belly, and should be drained daily and disposed of in an enviromentally friendly way and it kept you belly clean. ( sort of)
BH
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Jungle Jim
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
Guys,
I had the M-20 separator on my Stinson with the Franklin engine. The Franklins are known for puking oil out and "undercoating" the fuselage. The M-20 worked fine for me. No oil on the belly after it was installed. You just have to mount it as high as possible so that it can gravity feed back to the engine.
Jim
I had the M-20 separator on my Stinson with the Franklin engine. The Franklins are known for puking oil out and "undercoating" the fuselage. The M-20 worked fine for me. No oil on the belly after it was installed. You just have to mount it as high as possible so that it can gravity feed back to the engine.
Jim
Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
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Last edited by Hedley on Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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office_supply
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
what about installation? Is it as simple as buying the part and handing it to my AME for installation?
BH would this also be a problem on an engine pre-heated in winter?
BH would this also be a problem on an engine pre-heated in winter?
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Jungle Jim
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
The M-20 came with all the STC paperwork. Just needed installation and log book entries.
Jim
Jim
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black hole
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
Office Suppy Even if preheating, condensation on the inside of the engine runs into the oil. The only way out is through the breather vent. The only way around the problem is to keep the AC in a heated hangar. If you have a lot of oil on the belly: I suggest that there is another problem?
BH
BH
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office_supply
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
Anything above 4.5 quarts tends to get blown out (on an O-235) and when I bought the plane it had a weak cylinder. I was told it was piston rings that had aligned. My AME suggested that as well when the cylinder's compression went back up. But the thought of being able to run the engine with 6 quarts to help cooling and lower the consumption rate is appealing. I'll also be switching to W100Plus in the summer to help with that issue too.
If I had a million dollars, I'd overhaul the engine right now. It sat for four years starting in 2000 and only ran for 0.6 that entire time. Certainly cant be good for it. Got overhauled in 93 and from 86 to 91 it again didnt fly either. Its been neglected to say the least.
If I had a million dollars, I'd overhaul the engine right now. It sat for four years starting in 2000 and only ran for 0.6 that entire time. Certainly cant be good for it. Got overhauled in 93 and from 86 to 91 it again didnt fly either. Its been neglected to say the least.
Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
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Last edited by Hedley on Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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office_supply
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Re: air oil seperators,, Hedley or someone?
I took ownership of this plane in 2007, the previous owner took it in 2004 and was the first to fly it since 2000 (not counting a 0.6 flight in 2000). And a few owners previous didnt fly the plane for about 5 years as well.
When I got it, compression on #3 was low (58). That cylinder had a history of being low dating back to 1980, pre-overhaul. After about 15-20 hours of flight (including a lengthy cross-country) #3 went down to 48 and I thought for sure I needed a new cylinder. The airplane was going in for its annual (and needed a new spinner which delayed things by a few months) and when I talked with my AME he said #3 was up in the 70s and appeared fine. Thats when he mentioned the piston rings lined up. The same thing the previous owner had told me. Since then #3 has maintained a compression in the 70s.
But in the summer, especially in cross countries running the engine leaned around 2400-2600 rpm (red line on the tach is at 2700 and the data plate on the crankcase says max 2600) it tends to go through a lot of oil. Sometimes as much as a quart in 3 hours.
The previous owner used 20W50 XC and a few owners suggested I switch to 15W50 (older entries in the journey log state using W80) So thats what prompted me asking in the C172 oil topic about this and I plan next summer to switch to W100Plus and 15W50 in the winter.
And hopefully I can save up some money in the next 5 or so years to get some heavy work done on the engine. I cant afford to overhaul it (looking at Lycoming's MSRP its about 27-36k depending on overhaul, zero time, or new) and the only other option I know of is top overhaul. But if theres damage inside the crankcase, that wont help.
The engine doesnt have an oil filter. I was debating putting one in but a few people told me not to bother, saying the screens work just fine so long as I change the oil every 20-25 hours (which Im fine with as I put about 40-50 hours a year) So far my AME has been checking the pressure screen during the annual and never mentioned finding anything on the screen. On the last oil change, I attempted to check the "screen" (thinking the engine only had one, doh!) and so I took a wrench to what I thought was the "screen". Turns out I was right and wrong! When I went to my AME and asked for a crush washer for the "screen" he gave me a gasket. I was slightly confused. Turns out that was for the pressure screen and I had taken apart the suction screen. It had a few little round specs of sorts in it near the bottom, didnt really look like a typical metal shaving, but Im no mechanic. My AME said he only ever checks the suction screen if he finds something in the pressure screen, which he said he hadnt on my plane yet.
Thats the history of it pretty much.
When I got it, compression on #3 was low (58). That cylinder had a history of being low dating back to 1980, pre-overhaul. After about 15-20 hours of flight (including a lengthy cross-country) #3 went down to 48 and I thought for sure I needed a new cylinder. The airplane was going in for its annual (and needed a new spinner which delayed things by a few months) and when I talked with my AME he said #3 was up in the 70s and appeared fine. Thats when he mentioned the piston rings lined up. The same thing the previous owner had told me. Since then #3 has maintained a compression in the 70s.
But in the summer, especially in cross countries running the engine leaned around 2400-2600 rpm (red line on the tach is at 2700 and the data plate on the crankcase says max 2600) it tends to go through a lot of oil. Sometimes as much as a quart in 3 hours.
The previous owner used 20W50 XC and a few owners suggested I switch to 15W50 (older entries in the journey log state using W80) So thats what prompted me asking in the C172 oil topic about this and I plan next summer to switch to W100Plus and 15W50 in the winter.
And hopefully I can save up some money in the next 5 or so years to get some heavy work done on the engine. I cant afford to overhaul it (looking at Lycoming's MSRP its about 27-36k depending on overhaul, zero time, or new) and the only other option I know of is top overhaul. But if theres damage inside the crankcase, that wont help.
The engine doesnt have an oil filter. I was debating putting one in but a few people told me not to bother, saying the screens work just fine so long as I change the oil every 20-25 hours (which Im fine with as I put about 40-50 hours a year) So far my AME has been checking the pressure screen during the annual and never mentioned finding anything on the screen. On the last oil change, I attempted to check the "screen" (thinking the engine only had one, doh!) and so I took a wrench to what I thought was the "screen". Turns out I was right and wrong! When I went to my AME and asked for a crush washer for the "screen" he gave me a gasket. I was slightly confused. Turns out that was for the pressure screen and I had taken apart the suction screen. It had a few little round specs of sorts in it near the bottom, didnt really look like a typical metal shaving, but Im no mechanic. My AME said he only ever checks the suction screen if he finds something in the pressure screen, which he said he hadnt on my plane yet.
Thats the history of it pretty much.
