Flow through question.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:02 pm

I know there is no flow through agreement with Mainline, but do you have a better chance of getting on mainline from jazz anyway than someone off the street?

Does seniority play any role?

Cheers.

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:19 pm

Since there is no flow through, I don't think that seniority would make any difference.

As far as preferential hiring from Jazz, I guess we will see once AC starts hiring after the recalls are complete. But I doubt it, it could even be the opposite, because everytime they take a Jazz pilot for the mainline, they are actually training 2 pilots, the one that goes to the mainline and the one hired to replace him/her at Jazz. Time will tell.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:00 pm

Well, I hope there is some sort of preferential treatment towards the Jazz pilots going to mainline, I mean they are playing for the same team.

Cheers.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:47 pm

Heard something the other day that said if you want to work at AC, don't go to Jazz.

From a Jazz pilot.

tripleseven · Post by **tripleseven** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:39 am

If you want to work for the mainline, why don't you apply to the mainline?

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:02 am

Whoever told you that is full of $hit. Air Canada will treat a Jazz pilot the same way they will any other pilot. At the end of the day you will be hired based on your experience, age, sex, race, etc. Air Canada can not be shown to be discriminating against pilots because of the name of their current employer.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:15 pm

Yes I want to work for mainline, and I have applied. But since im lacking in heavy time, jet time, FMS/glass time, my resume isn't all that impressive.

Cheers.

tripleseven · Post by **tripleseven** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:12 pm

To be honest with you, I think Jazz would be a pretty damn good place to work at, even if you never make it to the mainline. You might be in a Dash for awhile, (nothing wrong with that, in my opinion), but on the other hand, you will eventually end up flying a -700 RJ. Nothing wrong with that.

rjer1 · Post by **rjer1** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:02 pm

it would be nice if guys that wanted to go can go and recieve some sort of credit for the years they put in at the regional.
It used to be that a great way to get to mainline was to go to the regionals and maybe get an interview from there.
I'm not knocking the regionals (Jazz) at all.
If you want to stay than stay but if you want to go to the mainline, their should be something in place for that as well.
It won't hurt the senior guys at Jazz at all.

Just my 2 cents worth.

RussD · Post by **RussD** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:24 am

tryme wrote:Whoever told you that is full of $hit.

Who ever told you that is ful of $hit and you ate it whole. AC has used it's hiring as a political/industrial tool forever your neivety is showing my friend.

chewsta · Post by **chewsta** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:51 am

You start at the bottom of the mainline senority list, but AC does like to hire from tier II and III operators (so I'm told by a mgmt pilot at AC)

rjer1 · Post by **rjer1** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:32 pm

MY dear friend Russ D..

I guess when I saw all the guys ahead of me on the seniority list get called and most of them hired, I was dreaming......

If you don't know the facts, then maybe you shouldn't post such idiotic replies.

This will be my last post on this subject.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:55 pm

not to sound uneducated, but would Jazz be a tier 2?

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:12 pm

RussD · Post by **RussD** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:51 pm

rjer1 wrote:MY dear friend Russ D..

I guess when I saw all the guys ahead of me on the seniority list get called and most of them hired, I was dreaming......

If you don't know the facts, then maybe you shouldn't post such idiotic replies.

This will be my last post on this subject.

I know the facts. I have a entire filing cabinet full of the whole sad story. I'm not your dear friend ,, or any other kind of friend. I think it maybe you who has to evaluate precisely how much (or little) you know about the history of the the 'AC Family of Airlines' . My impression is you know nothing. You have exhibited good judgment however in your commitment to end your participation on the subject

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:38 am

My advice

Get hired at some airline that is on the ropes and doesn't have such stringent entry requirements. When Air Canada is forced to merge with it, you can jump ahead of all the guys who went to Air Canada in the first place.

Johnny767 · Post by **Johnny767** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:57 pm

You should get you facts straight before you pass on any advice.

If you are attempting to take an uneducated cheap shot at Canadi>n, here are the facts.

1. Canadi>n had HIGHER requirements than Air Canada. You had to have a University Degree.

2. Having worked for both Canadi>n and Air Canada. The only one that was ever in Bankrupcy protection, was Air Canada.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:11 pm

Hey Johnny

I work for Air Canada and do have the facts. If you have worked for both, you would know that in order to be in command of an Air Canada aircraft it is not just a left seat ride like it was at Canadian.

CCAA did not happen until Canadian and its' mountain of debt was acquired by AC.

Robert Milton himself says in his book that Canadian was days away from liquidation and the debt load was much larger than Canadian had let on, not to mention the poison pill it had set up with AMR.

Canadian had signed a deal with the devil when it hopped into bed with AMR who was sucking CP dry.

Johnny767 · Post by **Johnny767** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:59 pm

Doesn't change the facts.

Unlike you, I have worked for both Airlines and the only one to date that has been bankrupt has been........

AIR CANADA

but.......don't let the facts get in the way of emotion.

As for your 'Left Seat' comment. It is not even worthy of debate!

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:13 am

Whoa Jacques,

I usually agree with your comments completely, but ya lost me on the "you would know that in order to be in command of an Air Canada aircraft it is not just a left seat ride like it was at Canadian".

What exactly do you mean by that? I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt and hope that perhaps I've misunderstood.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:45 am

Admittedly, I have not worked for CP and I have to say that everyone I have flown with from CP has been great! I am not saying one is any better than the other.

From the ex-CP guys that I know, they have all told me that when at CP you were up for a promotion, it was simply a left seat ride and line indoc like most places.

AC has a totally different approach. It is a 6 month ordeal. The actual ride is only the beginning. When I did it, if you didn't make it, you didn't go back to the right seat, you just didn't come back, period. This was probably brought into place many years ago when pilots were being hired at AC right out of school and they had little in in the experience pool.

As for CP needing a University degree, I know for a fact that is bullshit. I have friends that worked for CP and they are not University graduates. Do you think all the Wardair, EPA, Transair, PW, CP, Nordair etc etc etc all have a degree? We all know that CP did very little hiring after they became Canadian and the guys that did a flow through from Regional were not all graduates either.

There was a time when the only way you were going to get into Air Canada was if you were a 19 year old, visible minority, female with a PHD and 3 moon landings. As we all know, it is being in the right place at the right time more than anything.

I have no problems with the Canadi>n guys and like I said, I have enjoyed flying with every one from Canadi>n but I have to call "bullshit" when I see it.

"Canadian had higher requirements than Air Canada, you had to have a University Degree." Ahhhhhhcheeewwwbullshit.

Johnny767 · Post by **Johnny767** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:54 am

I suggest you check your facts before you go on a rant.

Under the last VP of Flight Ops, Captain Weatherly, all newhires were required to have a Full Universtiy Degree.

During the last hiring spree every entry had one, the only exceptions were Pilots coming in under the move-up from CRA.

Previously Canadi>n required two years of post-secondary. Designed to allow entry from Aviation College's.

Don't let the facts bite ya in the ass!

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:30 pm

" Hiring Spree" at Canadian?

Whatever Johnny, you have your opinion, I have mine, I don't think we are going to agree. So I really don't see the point in arguing about something that really in the grand scheme, doesn't matter anyway.

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:36 pm

heheh ok Jacques,

fair comment on the degree "requirement" at CDN, ("Weatherly" it was adhered to or not), obviously it doesn't really add to your flying credentials, like any HR department it's just another screening tool. ("What's that? You have a Bachelor of Sociology? Great! Now sit the f$ck down in the sim...")

But I have to say the infamous AC Command Course is tinged with it's own share of BS too, like if I turn this statement around "Canadian had higher requirements than Air Canada, you had to have a University Degree."

Make it, "AC had higher requirements than Canadian, you had to have a Command Course". *cough*bullshit*cough*

Gruelling course to be sure from what I've heard, but you could cut it's length in half if they removed the time they spend extolling to the crews "You are the pride of Canadian aviation, the creme de la creme, the best of the best, etc, etc...".

Kind of a neat throwback to the days of Connies and people putting on their Sunday best to go aviating, but seriously...heheh

(This is mainly tongue-in-cheek btw to needle my AC colleagues, who know who I am...you guys better help me get in there this year! )

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:08 pm

Yup..........I would agree that there is a lot of the ole Connie days still around but I will say one thing. Having already been a Captain elsewhere before Air Canada, I did find the command process a good one.

The dreaded command sims being the real treat. Two days of anything goes multiple unrelated failures, airport closures, minimum fuel and woxof everywhere while they examine your thought process under a microscope. I learned more about myself from that than the usual two dissimilar approaches, a hold , a Cat II and a refect, thanks your done.

As far as education goes, mute point. The flight attendants all have way more degrees than the pilots do anyway.

Hope to see you aboard soon.