Weather decision

[redwing]

I have been taking my training throughout the summer, and not the fall, and I decided today to cancel my flight at 1500 because the GFA was calling for "LCL 1/2sm FZFG VC DG till 16Z", and I notice that the temperature and dewpoint were M02/M04, so I guess I am asking if I made the right choice just to stay on the safe side, for someone who does not have a whole lot of experience?

[trampbike]

http://www.amazon.ca/Weather-Flying-Rob ... 007008761X

I think it's a very good introduction to weather and decision making, althought lot of the stuff is about IFR flying.

[HuD 91gt]

Were you doing circuits, or heading out of your local area? If it were circuits I would have gone until the weather stopped me. Otherwise, I'd say it was a good choice.

[redwing]

I was heading out to work on upper air work stuff

[Big Pistons Forever]

It is always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

With fog you need to consider what is causing the fog to form and is that condition going to change for the better or worse. For example fog in the early morning on an otherwise clear day should burn off as the air warms. Fog at dusk will only get worse. Understanding weather is not about answer the TC weather exam trivia questions, it has to be about understanding the common patterns of weather and how they relate to your flight

[loopa]

It is always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

With fog you need to consider what is causing the fog to form and is that condition going to change for the better or worse. For example fog in the early morning on an otherwise clear day should burn off as the air warms. Fog at dusk will only get worse. Understanding weather is not about answer the TC weather exam trivia questions, it has to be about understanding the common patterns of weather and how they relate to your flight

A big fat + 1

[Hawkeye4077]

Good decision!!

If you have a doubt next time, you can give a call to your local FIC. Usually if you ask them and tell them you don`t have a lot of experience, they will take the time to explain the weather to you and what causes that what will happen etc.

Also as you get more experience, I think it is good to go flying when it`s not SKC. I`m not saying when it`s fogged in as this would be dumb but when the vis is lower than 15 miles with some clouds, maybe some scattered showers. This will build your confidence and skills.

Remember, Fly safe and when you`re not comfy. return to base and live to fly another day.


Hawk

[loopa]

Good decision!!

If you have a doubt next time, you can give a call to your local FIC. Usually if you ask them and tell them you don`t have a lot of experience, they will take the time to explain the weather to you and what causes that what will happen etc.

Also as you get more experience, I think it is good to go flying when it`s not SKC. I`m not saying when it`s fogged in as this would be dumb but when the vis is lower than 15 miles with some clouds, maybe some scattered showers. This will build your confidence and skills.

Remember, Fly safe and when you`re not comfy. return to base and live to fly another day.


Hawk

Yes, I remember that throughout my training i was having a tough time agreeing with experience fixing my weather decisions simply because I felt scared to fly in bad weather. But it definitely is true. With experience, you will make better judgment calls and decisions on a go/no go condition.

[5x5]

Hard to say if it's a good call or not - on one hand any time you don't feel comfortable is a good time not to go. On the other hand, the GFA isn't usually the bible for making decisions on local flights. The previous few hours METARs and the TAF along with other students PIREPS are likely more applicable to what's actually happening.

Weather decisions tend to be the most difficult for anyone to make, but so much depends on what type of flight and how much in advance you need to make the call. So often students miss excellent weather because they decide to cancel the day before based on a lousy forecast. The next day it's good to go and they miss it. Then they complain that their training is taking too long.

Also, when it's marginal weather for you, go with your instructor. It's very hard to make weather calls with little experience and the best way to get experience is go out in worse weather than you have experienced with someone else who has more.

Just a rhetorical question - what did your instructor have to say about your decision making? And what kind of guidance have you received in relating to interpretation of the various weather information sources?

[paydaymayday]

Go up with a half mile vis with a fresh PPL or less, and you will get lost, or at the very least, quite disoriented and confused. You'd be surprised how much of a difference it can make at that experience level. Also, when the wx is like that, you'll find it tends to change and/or deteriorate much more quickly.

Which is why I say you should go up and experience that kind of weather with an instructor at least once. You will be surprised how different a scenario it is, and it is a good learning experience. Perhaps try to do the diversion lesson on a day like that.

Also, keep your eye open for ice, especially this time of year. Talk to your instructor about the effects of ice on an aircraft not designed or certified for known. Hopefully he has some experience with this and will explain how it can affect you.

[taylor498]

Go up with a half mile vis with a fresh PPL or less, and you will get lost, or at the very least, quite disoriented and confused...

Which is why I say you should go up and experience that kind of weather with an instructor at least once. You will be surprised how different a scenario it is, and it is a good learning experience. Perhaps try to do the diversion lesson on a day like that.

What? half mile? Do you have a death wish?

[paydaymayday]

Go up with a half mile vis with a fresh PPL or less, and you will get lost, or at the very least, quite disoriented and confused...

This is saying "If you go up..."

Which is why I say you should go up and experience that kind of weather with an instructor at least once. You will be surprised how different a scenario it is, and it is a good learning experience. Perhaps try to do the diversion lesson on a day like that.

What? half mile? Do you have a death wish?

I fail to see the problem with this one.

[Lurch]

Go up with a half mile vis with a fresh PPL or less, and you will get lost, or at the very least, quite disoriented and confused...

This is saying "If you go up..."

Which is why I say you should go up and experience that kind of weather with an instructor at least once. You will be surprised how different a scenario it is, and it is a good learning experience. Perhaps try to do the diversion lesson on a day like that.

What? half mile? Do you have a death wish?

I fail to see the problem with this one.

I agree, I always tried to get students out when the vis dropped below 5nm and 1500' overcast for diversion training.

Lurch

[hairdo]

I agree that you should go up with less than awesome vis. 5NM, cool, it gives them a good view at a more realistic view. However, I think that taylor498's comment was at the 1/2 mile part. Which is NOT VFR, no matter where you are.

[taylor498]

I agree, I always tried to get students out when the vis dropped below 5nm and 1500' overcast for diversion training.

Marginal weather is a good training environment for certain exercises. Diversions being one of them.

However, I think that taylor498's comment was at the 1/2 mile part. Which is NOT VFR, no matter where you are.

Yes, my comment was in regards to the half mile. Marginal VFR is an entirely different story.

What? half mile? Do you have a death wish?

I fail to see the problem with this one.

hmm. ok?

[paydaymayday]

I never said a half mile for the diversion part, young men. I said on a day *like that*. . . i.e. poor weather.

[Bushav8er]

Since when is a 1/2 mile VFR? For that - good decision. BUT what was it calling for after 14z? Your flight was booked for 15z.
For some students, and even more experienced private pilots, 3-5 miles isn't enough, but around the airport is a good 'training' to get familiar with reduced vis, and get experience.

[redwing]

Thanks for all the reply's, I forget what it was calling for after 14z, but I think I was more worried about the freezing part.

Doesnt freezingfog contain supercooled droplets, so if they strike the wing, depending on the temp of the a/c skin, will freeze and cause icing? I guess that was what I was most concern about

[Bushav8er]

I forget what it was calling for after 14z, but I think I was more worried about the freezing part.

No worries, I was curious. Better to cancel and second guess yourself (and see if you were right) then to not get the opportunity...ever again. Fly and learn at YOUR comfort level. Good call.

Good luck/best wishes for the rest of your training

[buck82]

Remember the forecast was only advising you of freezing fog in the vicinity. Quite often in the fall this will form in the low lying areas, valleys above lakes and rivers. If you will be flying clear of these areas then you should be fine. And while you should always be wary of freezing fog, since you are flying VFR; you should NEVER even get close to flying in it.

[Highflyinpilot]

Go up in 1/2 mile vis WTF?

an ftu wouldnt let this happen for ppl training.

as said above if you dont feel comfortable dont do it, especially if you were going solo. I remember back when i did my training it was calling for something like your situation but my instructor said we will go up fly a few circuits and go from there, well in the circuit it was fine so we headed out to the practice area and did some excercises keeping an eye on wings, weather, pilot reports etc. Anyways the flight was perfect no weather issues. Keep in mind that was with an experienced instructor and had i was going solo probably would have stayed on the ground as I was too inexperienced at the time to make a competent call once airborn.

So all in all i guess what im saying is if you were going solo, an excellent call, going with an experienced instructor i probably would have tried the circuit at least and go from there.


P.S Good call or bad one, better safe then sorry.

[mathewc]

I just turned around and came down from trying to find a grass strip I had never been to before. I was 500ft AGL with vis 3sm and dropping the further I went. I think it was a good decision to turn around and land rather than push my luck and try to get in to a place I had never been to before in an area I'm not familiar with.

[Bushav8er]

I just turned around and came down from trying to find a grass strip I had never been to before. I was 500ft AGL with vis 3sm and dropping the further I went. I think it was a good decision to turn around and land rather than push my luck and try to get in to a place I had never been to before in an area I'm not familiar with.

Agreed. Good call.

[Pugster]

Both good calls here.

Save the tough weather decisions for when you've got enough experience to really know what is dangerous and what isn't. And trust me - later on you will reflect on that and realize that you probably had it ass backwards for a while . If you're seriously doubting it - stay on the ground.

A crusty old guy once told me something I try to live by. He said "flying VFR is safe, and flying IFR is safe. Mixing the two will kill you". Very good words to live by IMHO.

The only time to wander out in marginal VFR while training for your PPL is with an experienced instructor - and when both of you are satisfied that the weather won't drop below the capabilities of the pilots or the aircraft (ex: icing...).

[Lurch]

I had to give my head a shake yesterday

I was flying into a MF that had fluctuating ceilings between 300 and 500'. They were putting out speci's every 10 minutes. I shot the RNAV and made note of the top and base of the cloud, I've found they usually like this info. I landed and was rolling out and heard a 172 call up looking for weather, everything but ceiling. I called clear and report the top and the 500' base. Not even 2 minutes later I watched the 172 taxi back to the FTU.

What are instructors teaching students these days about checking weather before even walking out to the airplane? The TAF was properly forecast and the METARs were also correct. I wouldn't have even gotten out of bed that morning for a training flight. Little all do all of the pre-flight, walk around, and run-up before deciding the weather that had been there for hours was not good enough to fly.

This is the third time in recent memory that I can remember student pilots have tried to fly when weather was below VFR.

Do what the original poster did, check the weather before wasting you time and potentially putting your life at risk.

Lurch