Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

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JakeYYZ
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Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by JakeYYZ »

The publication of more than 1,000 private e-mails that climate change skeptics say proves the threat is exaggerated has prompted one key Republican senator to call for an investigation into their research.

In an interview with The Washington Times on Monday, Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.) announced he would probe whether the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) "cooked the science to make this thing look as if the science was settled, when all the time of course we knew it was not."
"[T]his thing is serious, you think about the literally millions of dollars that have been thrown away on some of this stuff that they came out with," Inhofe, the ranking member of the Environment and Public Works Committee, said during the interview.
He added that it was "interesting" that the e-mails surfaced only weeks before an important climate change summit would bring world leaders to Copenhagen.

Fueling Inhofe's concerns is last week's news that a blogger hacked into the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit (Cru) and published about 1,000 e-mails and more than 3,000 private documents relating to climate change.

Some of those communications disparaged climate change skeptics and their views, while others contained conversations about how to best portray climate change research.
link: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... e-research
The scientific community is buzzing over thousands of emails and documents -- posted on the Internet last week after being hacked from a prominent climate-change research center -- that some say raise ethical questions about a group of scientists who contend humans are responsible for global warming.
The correspondence between dozens of climate-change researchers, including many in the U.S., illustrates bitter feelings among those who believe human activities cause global warming toward rivals who argue that the link between humans and climate change remains uncertain.

Some emails also refer to efforts by scientists who believe man is causing global warming to exclude contrary views from important scientific publications.
"This is horrible," said Pat Michaels, a climate scientist at the Cato Institute in Washington who is mentioned negatively in the emails. "This is what everyone feared. Over the years, it has become increasingly difficult for anyone who does not view global warming as an end-of-the-world issue to publish papers. This isn't questionable practice, this is unethical."
link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125883405294859215.html

Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. This crap sandwich isn't toast yet but the bread is starting to burn.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Siddley Hawker »

Another interesting read.
http://www.di2.nu/200911/23a.htm
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by canwhitewolf »

yup
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by bmc »

Here's another interesting read:

Image
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by The Old Fogducker »

Canwhitewolf ... that poster is an absolute classic!

It needs the sound track from one of AlGore's speech where he bellows like a bull moose .... "you played on our fears!" and the Demoncrats go wild with cheering.

What dolts.

OFD
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Rockie »

Convincing the public and government that man is contributing to global warming is a campaign. Those of you who still flatly deny that such a thing exists can surely understand that since the energy industry has been embroiled in their own campaign since this issue was first discovered, and their tactics are far worse. That doesn't negate the overwhelming body of scientific evidence however, but the denyers will seize on anything as irrefutable proof that it doesn't exist.

I have no love for Al Gore either, but this issue isn't about him however much you want to make it. That's just a diversion you're using to avoid the facts.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by bmc »

I wasn't aware that there was only one research facility in the world working on climate change. I never heard of the place.

It sounds like a leading global facility doesn't it.

I'm wrong in drawing a parrallel between this news item disproving everything, and a VW powered homebuilt being offered as evidence of WMD stockpiles in Iraq by the same fear party. On one hand, the argument screams for widespread evidence, yet 160mb (or whatever) from Bumfuck University east anglia over a ten year period, summarized by an author is conclusive evidence.

I don't get Sarah Palen logic. I try but fail.

I guess I'm missing brain parts.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by JakeYYZ »

They're fudging the data to get the desired result. Because there's a metric fuckload of euros is at stake.

This will not kill the global warming cult. It's a religion. It would be nice for them, if they had scientific proof; but no such thing is required for them to continue to do what it is they do.
Much like if the Shroud of Turin is positively proven to be the genuine article.. many Christians would rejoice, and most atheists would yawn or snicker. Don't ask me about what the Muslims would do, it's too obvious. Such a small number of minds would be changed by such a monumental discovery that the demographic can be safely ignored.
No, this is not about science; this is about self-hatred of a small number of human’s writ large. Nearly every leftist position proceeds like this:
1) I hate myself for reason X
2) I'm better than everyone else
3) Therefore, everyone else must be much worse with regards to X than I am
4) I must stop everyone else from doing/thinking/whatever X, even if it means I have to do more of it to make that happen.
Changing the facts of global warming does not change the fact that the global warming cultist hates himself. Therefore, his behaviour will change not even a little bit.
On the other hand, it is teabaggingly delicious to be vindicated in my long-held belief that there is no evidence for AGW.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by BoostedNihilist »

This is not a left right issue.

There are many of us on the left who do not believe this shit.

edit:

left right or whatever, I suggest you at least listen to what alex jones has to say on this subject.

www.infowars.com
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Jastapilot »

"Metric Fuckload", I LIKE IT! Can I use it? :mrgreen:
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Rockie »

More propaganda and agenda's. Why would I listen to Dr. Tim Ball?

http://www.desmogblog.com/node/1272

If half of what's said on this site about him is true then he's just another energy industry paid hack.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by bmc »

Jastapilot wrote:"Metric Fuckload", I LIKE IT! Can I use it? :mrgreen:
Good name for a band.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by bmc »

Rockie wrote:More propaganda and agenda's. Why would I listen to Dr. Tim Ball?

http://www.desmogblog.com/node/1272

If half of what's said on this site about him is true then he's just another energy industry paid hack.

"A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest"

- Art Garfunkel "The Boxer"
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by JakeYYZ »

Forget the emails. Forget “hide the decline”. Small potatoes.
Their computer code…you know, the code that showed we all needed to wear hairshirts and start living in the woods…that code? The code was so addled and bug-ridden that it would consistently output a negative value from a squared variable. This is the sort of thing that results in facepalm among math-science-computer guys.
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/11/21 ... -cru-crud/
The Harry “Readme” file is a stunner, isn’t it? By the end, I felt terrible for the guy.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by . ._ »

So if it's getting colder, why is the arctic ice melting?

Why does the pond I skated on as a kid not freeze over any more?

Why can the hunters around here not track deer like they used to- in the snow. There's no more snow during deer season.

I'm really confused about this, but I'm confused about a lot of things.

My $0.02.

-istp :roll:
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Rockie »

There are some fundamental connections not being made here.

No one disputes CO2 is a greenhouse gas. No one disputes we are pumping billions and billions of tons of it into our atmosphere every year. What is it about that simple relationship people don't understand?

Oh wait, I know. These are the people who don't take mommy's word for it that the stove is hot and have to touch it themselves over and over again because they just will not accept that it's hot.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by grimey »

BoostedNihilist wrote:This is not a left right issue.

There are many of us on the left who do not believe this shit.

edit:

left right or whatever, I suggest you at least listen to what alex jones has to say on this subject.

http://www.infowars.com
You're holding up Alex Jones and Infowars as a reliable source for the truth?

Good lord, I thought swede was gone.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by grimey »

JakeYYZ wrote:Forget the emails. Forget “hide the decline”. Small potatoes.
Their computer code…you know, the code that showed we all needed to wear hairshirts and start living in the woods…that code? The code was so addled and bug-ridden that it would consistently output a negative value from a squared variable. This is the sort of thing that results in facepalm among math-science-computer guys.
Not really. The code didn't check for an overflow on a signed integer, and it's a relatively common bug. The guy you cited couldn't figure out that a single-precision floating point number wouldn't have overflown as described. It would have to get above (roughly) 2^127, or around 1 with 40 zeros after it. It overflowed with 10 significant digits, which is what you get if you use a 32 bit signed integer, with the output adding 2 decimal places for some obscure reason. So take anything he says with a grain of salt.

(2^31-1, the highest positive value represented by a 32 bit signed integer, is 2147483647. The lowest value it can represent is -2147483648. 49920 (the number which caused the overflow) squared is 2492006400. 2492006400-2147483647-2147483648+2976589(the sum immediately before the overflow) = −1799984306, close to the number right after the overflow. Why not -−1799984256? The output was likely cast from an integer to a single-precision float, and was rounded to the nearest value represented by a single precision floating point number. This also explains the decimal points after what should be integers)

They should have used an arbitrary precision integer library if they needed to keep track of extremely large integers, or used 64 bit integers and checked for overflow. They didn't, and it bit them in the ass. They weren't using floating point math, like your guy thought they were, and he doesn't understand how floating point numbers are represented in a computer. They ARN'T represented the same way as integers, and won't overflow at the same time as integers.

The code sounds like it's a mess, but it's not messed up in quite the way your guy describes.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Topspin »

Rockie wrote:There are some fundamental connections not being made here.

No one disputes CO2 is a greenhouse gas. No one disputes we are pumping billions and billions of tons of it into our atmosphere every year. What is it about that simple relationship people don't understand?

Oh wait, I know. These are the people who don't take mommy's word for it that the stove is hot and have to touch it themselves over and over again because they just will not accept that it's hot.
I don't think that is really the point. I don't think that the current climate politics and economics have anything to do with the environment at all...

Just based on Kyoto alone, they are talking about cutting emissions levels to less than 1990. Never mind the fact that in 1990 their was nearly 2 billion fewer people living here than today, and that number is only getting bigger.

Based on todays technologies, and the kinds of things we are doing, is that even physically possible? Those two billion people need to eat, have energy requirements at home, need transportation to and from the workplace, need physical commodities to survive......all of which have energy requirements.

Even if you removed those two billion people, energy consumption at home has spiked. People are buying more useless crap than ever, IE: Throwing out their 1st gen Iphone to purchase an Iphone 3GS two years later...what of the petrochemicals alone used in production of the plastics? In the packaging? Energy to produce and transport products? The number of transactions such as this are ever increasing every year.

I really think the real root problem lies in, overpopulation, overproduction, and overconsumption. Based on that, and based on what I was trying to say above, what we are doing today is doing nothing to really solve our problems. Trying to bail out a sinking schooner with a thimble.

I really don't think it is far fetched at all for those heavily invested in the 'green' sectors of our economy to cook the books to up their margin....and I certainly believe that all the current goings on are for the monetary purposes at the forefront.

To really have change, make a difference, is going to result in a drastic change in our standard of living, but our standard of living is going up, not down.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Rockie »

No one disputes the necessities of civilization either or is suggesting we go back to the way we were 100 years ago. But I'm sure you've heard the saying "necessity is the mother of invention". We just need the innovators out there to come up with alternatives which is entirely possible if there is enough will to do so. Denying flat out that we have a problem or aren't contributing to it won't achieve that.

There is a concerted campaign going on right now by some to denounce MMGW completely. Those are the people who can't follow the dots, or have some other reason for not wanting the world to change its ways.
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Rockie »

Oh this is rich. According to the petition project over 9000 US scientists have signed a petition saying there is no convincing science that CO2 (a greenhouse gas pumped into our atmosphere by the billions of tons) will adversely effect our environment, but that there is substantial evidence it's beneficial to us. How could we miss that?

Doesn't this kind of amateurish crap embarrass you?
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by JakeYYZ »

You would think the natural reaction would be outrage at being purposefully deceived and relief that a "grave danger" ...isn't. Somehow, you'd rather continue to denigrate the "deniers." Who have been proven right (not that there is no warming, but that the GW zealots have not made a coherent case for radical change at great cost). You'd think THEY have the burden of proof.
The war on global warming appears to be based on over-cooked data. If there is no global warming, the war is over and we should be happy!
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Re: Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

Post by Rockie »

Hey Dr. Jake, fess up. That was you that signed that petition card wasn't it? Did you pass the extras you requested out to your drink'in buddies?
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