Ottawa getting ready to order F-18's replacement ????

[robbreid]

Click Here Ottawa Citizen report.

[SAR_YQQ]

The article clearly states that the Air Force Association of Canada recommends that the Federal Government begin the contract process - the AFAC is not an official agency of the Air Force.

The CF-188 is due for replacement, as is the Aurora, Buffalo, E/H model Hercules, Twin Otter. Take your pick.

[ahramin]

How the heck do you replace a twin otter?

[modi13]

Three Beavers stuck together?

[LAX]

do what the Americans do. Lots of big expensive Helicopters.

[rigpiggy]

CF-188- F18 E/F
Buffalo-new build 30 with pw150's
Hercs- IRAN at snow, more capable than the J's at 1/5th the price http://www.snowaviation.com/c130m.htm
Twin Otter- 400's
and just for good meaure
CP140-rebuild with PW150's for commonality with the herc
my .02$

[Legacy]

How the heck do you replace a twin otter?

With a new one!

['effin hippie]

Canada is a junior partner in the F-35 "Lightning-Your-Pockets-Too"

Lots of reasons to criticize that new machine. It's not that it's not an amazing piece of equipment, it's just that it's going to cost ~$100M per copy and the only thing it does that other, cheaper A/C don't do is stealth. And it turns out that the stealth is quite limited, and the version we get will be deliberately degraded relative to the US version which is the one whose performance is quoted.

My biggest beef is the simplest: Single-Engine. How do you CF guys out there feel about launching out over our vast hinterlands with one stove and a positive attitude? Actually, I keep forgetting you have ejection seats. How do the rest of you feel about throwing away a hundred mil every time an engine quits?

ef

[Nark]

Hippie:

How often do those stoves quit? The question really has to be asked, "What mission do you want these aircraft to perform?"



PS. There's a place called Ocean Beach down here. You'd be in heaven...

[2R]

So many new materials,design concepts and new manufacturing abilities to utilize .It could be a fantastic opportunity to energize the Aerospace industry in Canada .
Having a short production run of Buffalos woud not hurt SAR .Perhaps two for each Province.One for the Air and one for a spare /training etc...

[modi13]

It's funny that nobody remember what happened last week ...

Before the CF-188, there was the SINGLE-ENGINE CF-104

And the F-16. The F-16 and F-35 were designed as dogfighters, whereas the F-18 is a multi-role ground/air attack, although the F-35 is intended to be used in a manner similar to the F-18. Rather than making it as black and white as one engine versus two, maybe consider the missions the aircraft will be flying: if you need a multi-role aircraft that can out-manoeuvre almost any other aircraft, the F-35 would be superior to a Super Hornet.

[iflyforpie]

I can see how this is going to go down...

December 2010.

Stephen Harper's Conservative government places an order to Lockheed Martin for 120 F-35 (or CF-135) Joint Strike fighters plus support, spares and training. Ignatieff and his cronies immediately protest this wild spending in poor economic times and form a coalition with the NDP (who are mad that people on welfare can't afford to go to Disneyland) and the Bloc (who are mad that the planes can't be made and supported in Quebec). They force though a vote of no-confidence and in the ensuing election the Liberals win a majority.

August 2011.

The Ignatieff Liberal Government cancels the 120 plane order, gleefully paying the cancellation penalties out of increased tax revenue from the recent GST hike and the newly implemented national carbon tax. They arrange the purchase of 50 used Super Hornets from the US Navy, retaining the CF-188s for home defence.

May 2014.

A large public outcry as a result of a string of age-related fatal accidents forces the retirement of the CF-188. The Liberals decide to buy two ready-made squadrons of the CF-135 to replace the CF-188. As a result of the devaluation of the Canadian dollar due to high inflation, the purchase price for 60 aircraft is nearly as much as the price of 120 aircraft a few years ago.

September 2016.

A large scandal breaks out of the Liberal Chambers and onto the floor of the House of Commons. The Liberal's term runs out, forcing them to call an election. They are obliterated and the newly installed NDP arranges the selling of the Super Hornets and CF-135s to Greece and Turkey. They use the funds to buy the increased welfare population new cars and big-screen TVs. The BAe Hawk is armed with a pair of Sidewinders and put to work defending the country. The NDP leadership said of the Hawks, 'They look menacing enough. This is Canada after all'.

[SAR_YQQ]

CF-188- F18 E/F
Buffalo-new build 30 with pw150's
Hercs- IRAN at snow, more capable than the J's at 1/5th the price http://www.snowaviation.com/c130m.htm
Twin Otter- 400's
and just for good meaure
CP140-rebuild with PW150's for commonality with the herc
my .02$

Buffalo/Hercules E/H will be replaced by one common airframe. Something with 2 engines for economy, pressurized and can fly at 325KIAS VNE.

Twin Otters - 400 series would be nice, they have discussed Q series too.

CP140 - P8 would be nice, but really the Aurora is on the bottom of the proverbial list since they are getting new wing boxes.

FWIW the Super Hornet would be a better replacement for the CF-188A/B, twin engines aside, it also gives more jobs for our Navs.

[Old Dog Flying]

With the Non-Demonic Party at the helm of the great nation of Canuckistan, the CDN forces were downsized until the last pilot on inventory, Brig-Gen "Guns" Watson was retired and the big Bear from over the pole decided that Fort Mac was a good place to get cheap oil, a few retired old farts from the "Kool Pool" refitted a Snowbird Extra 300 in an attempt to defend the Great White North.

After initial taxi-test it was decided to install a 1000 hp V10 with HO injection. The armament was pilferred from numerous sources and "Guns" went after the Bad Guys. In the mean while the "effin' Newfies" working in the oil patch made up a super brew of homeland Screech and used this to literally stop the US Marines at the border...really...have you ever tried Screech?

The PM Jock Slayton, asked the two invading armies to please leave CDN soil but he did not have the balls to back up his request until "Guns" and the East Coast gang made short work of the baddies EH!

[Carrier]

Quote: "How the heck do you replace a twin otter?"

With a Harbin Y-12, of course. Just about everything else of recent manufacture in Canada came from China (check the appliances for sale in WalMart or Canadian Tire for confirmation) so let's see Canada show some consistency!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin_Y-12

['effin hippie]

What would be really dreamy is if the US listened to Israel, the Aussies and Japan, who REAALLY want some F-22's, and kept that production line open and agreed to sell some to trusted allies.

The F-22 (current fly away cost $146M) has already passed all it's development costs and for every additional unit produced the per unit cost comes down; while the F-35 is still not through it's development cycle and already faces escalating unit costs even before accounting for the order reductions the US and nearly every partner nation are considering, further escalating unit cost.

A pipe dream I know, but I'd take 80 F-22's over 120 F-35's any day.

ef

[teacher]

You guys need to take a closer look at our numbers:

"In 2008 the Canada First Defence Strategy confirmed the Harper government’s commitment to a manned fighter capability. It called for the purchase of 65 new aircraft to eventually replace the CF-18."

That seems VERY low considering you have to account for training and maintanance as well as actual air defence.

[cyeg66]

if you need a multi-role aircraft that can out-manoeuvre almost any other aircraft, the F-35 would be superior to a Super Hornet.

If I was to believe everything I've read on the two airframes, then the Super Hornet would probably hand the F-35 it's a$$ in ACM. Factor in that the F-18E/F is less than half the future acquisition cost of that slow, single-engined, overweight, piece of cr@p F-35 and it should be a clear decision: Politicians like to keep their american counterparts happy so they'll still buy the F-35, no doubt.

[AuxBatOn]

If I was to believe everything I've read on the two airframes, then the Super Hornet would probably hand the F-35 it's a$$ in ACM.

You mean BFM? Can you substianciate your claim please?

[Rockie]

Given the increased emphasis lately on arctic sovereignty (likely only to increase in the future) two engines is a HUGE factor over one. If you consider the type of combat operations the F18 has been involved in since Gulf War #1, it's easy to make the case that pure combat capability should be sacrificed if it means getting the second engine.

It was a major consideration in choosing the F18 and I don't see how anything's changed since then.

[Kartoon]

The Rafale would be a nice twin!
http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/dassault_rafale.pl

['effin hippie]

@ teacher: ~$100M per copy. 65 is all we can afford I guess.

For detailed, ad nauseum criticism of the F-35 check out http://www.ausairpower.net.

Basically it has a weight problem, so it is underpowered. Bad for air combat at any range. Stealth is good from the front only - sucks if you would like to turn away or get away from an adversary. No supercruise. Limited internal fuel and payload.

The basic point is that it was developed as a strike fighter that could hold its own against the best stuff the soviets were selling 10 years ago. The latest versions of the Flanker available for export are a whole different beast.

I don't really want to bash per se, but surely we can get more bang for our buck.

ef

ps. The CF-104 loss rate was 50%!!

[2R]

What kind of high speed ,high speed multi-role interdiction mach three jet would you use to interdict someone wearing a pantybomb ?

[mcrit]

....... it also gives more jobs for our Navs.

I thought that was what we bought UAVs for.

[GoinNowhereFast]

What's wrong with the Eurofighter? Manouverable, powerful, well armoured and twin engine redundancy.