Here is a wake up...or back to sleep!!!

[midwingcrisis]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ja ... ours-wages

[VicMackey]

If I sleep, I am gonna have nightmares..

[KAG]

At least here in Canada we are not as bad off as our southern cousins. There are also options for different ways to build your hours besides the regionals. Sure the wages aren't great at some companies, but no where as bad as 20K flying an RJ.
We also don't have the 150,000 (seems high to me) in avaition training debt.

[200Above]

"It's all I ever wanted to do. I know we're talking about the negatives, of which there are many, but I still love what I do – being able to get into an aircraft that you could never afford to rent on your own, and be able to pilot it around the nation. I still love the business," he said.

And sadly, like the quote says, we all love what we do and are blinded by the truth that this industry is the shits.

I hope it gets better. We all sacrifice so much for little reward.

like KAG said, it isn't as bad here.. yet

[crazy_aviator]

the last part of the article says it all

"It's all I ever wanted to do. I know we're talking about the negatives, of which there are many, but I still love what I do – being able to get into an aircraft that you could never afford to rent on your own, and be able to pilot it around the nation. I still love the business," he said.

Its all i ever wanted to do ,,therefore i shall do whatever it takes to get in that left seat WHATEVER!

[. ._]

Hell, every job out there is paying less these days. And if they pay more, they're probably shit.

I'll stick to the flying dream.

-istp

[Cat Driver]

From an owners standpoint why would you pay someone to do something they love to do and will do if you just let them?

[buzzjob]

From an owners standpoint why would you pay someone to do something they love to do and will do if you just let them?

Exactly the reason for the formation of the College of Professional Pilots. No one should have to work for nothing just because they love their job (profession). Time to stop the pilots who are willing to work for free and the operators who take advantage of this!!

[macbainz1]

If I was reading this as a budding pilot south of the border I would choose a different career path. It seems safe to say that for now pilots in Canada are respected for what they do compared to the U.S.

To me after recent experience flights in the U.S now are just buses with wings and therefore the Regional pilots are just treated like a bus drivers. It's pretty sad to know this and that one day Canada may be the same

[Shiny Side Up]

From an owners standpoint why would you pay someone to do something they love to do and will do if you just let them?

Lots of reasons, but more so when it comes to aviation. I'll keep it short. Airplanes are expensive. People by comparrison are cheap. Losses of both are grievious. Small expenditure on the people portion reaps the highest rewards in the profit margin. Few businesses seem to get this. The most successful ones I've worked for are the ones that do.

But then I know that you know this and are merely asking a rhetorical question to point out how unfortunately a large portion of the world so short-sightedly think.

[D5GRVTY]

From an owners standpoint why would you pay someone to do something they love to do and will do if you just let them?

I wouldn't mind taking a stab at that question.

Because the owners will get what they pay for. While they might be able to attract some people that are very passionate about their jobs, the smarter (or more talented) will go towards those jobs that pay better.

I think this is starting to come to light with such incidents as the colgan air crash.

D5

[mattedfred]

rightly or wrongly the highest level of education that one has achieved is often a factor in determining an appropriate level of compensation.

does one require a high school diploma, or equivalent, in order to qualify for a CPL? surely my grammar would indicate that one does not.

rightly or wrongly it appears that it may be too easy to obtain an OC and other rights to operate an air service or airline in canada.

perhaps if the standards increased than the compensation for the employer and employee would increase proportionately?

sadly this would mean that the customer would pay more and we all know that the customer is king.

sad state of affairs but it appears that this is happening in many areas of the economy

[MichaelP]

This is the big difference between AvCanada here and the Flyer portal in Britain.
Here we see cat fights that can get snide and nasty, there there is very little of that and a much more pleasant discourse.
But most people on this site fly as a profession or they see themselves in a career as a pilot, there they fly for pleasure at their own expense.

Airline pilots do not compare with bus drivers. Bus drivers are paid a living wage.
There was a bus driver I knew who flew the KingAir in BC's horrible weather for $17 a flying hour while he also drove a BC Transit bus for $22.50 an hour or more with perks, and was paid 8 hours even if he only did 4!

It's pilot's passion that is the problem.
Even a dispatcher working at a flying school makes more money than the flying instructors employed there!
$12 an hour for 8 hours a day = $96, if the average flying instructor does four revenue hours a day he/she is doing well.

Pilots pay to keep aviation going while the mass of people who fly as passengers could afford another $25 on a ticket to both pay a pilot better, and have a safer aeroplane to fly in

A discussion with a senior ATAC person a few years ago really shocked me with the disregard towards the flying instructors then being paid a pittance. Instructors, like the airline pilots some go on to be, accept that they must sacrifice for aviation to continue.
This is absolute BS!
Everything has it's cost, if I buy a new magneto it has it's cost.
A pilot is every bit as important as a magneto!
I was shocked then by ATAC, and by COPA too... There's little hope for pilots in Canada unless they all get together and demand what is right for them... But Canadians are individualists and obedient servants aren't they?

[KAG]

Not all employers are equal. If you’re underpaid, leave and get a higher paying job. I have left previous companies for better paying ones, even if it was a lateral move. I chased lifestyle until I got it. I made terrible money as an instructor, so I went to a busier school and I could live semi comfortably. In the 703/704 world I made a lateral move to Borek and doubled my paycheck. More recently I left Jazz for WJ because the wages were IMHO too low. The companies I left were for the most part good outfits; I just couldn’t make ends meet. There are good and great paying gigs out there, you just need the balls, experience and luck, to go out and get them. Yes your not going to walk into a high paying job right out of school, no profession/trade does. You still have to pay your dues, just pay them on your terms.

We as a group don’t have to allow ourselves to be working for gutter wages. And if everything tanks, well there are other lines of work that will afford us to fly for fun. Then where would these companies be?

Don’t allow yourself to be bent over a barrel.

[hawker driver]

At least here in Canada we are not as bad off as our southern cousins. There are also options for different ways to build your hours besides the regionals. Sure the wages aren't great at some companies, but no where as bad as 20K flying an RJ.
We also don't have the 150,000 (seems high to me) in avaition training debt.

I talked to an American regional pilot a year ago and asked about training debt. He finished a college program and came out of school with $110,000 in student loan debt. His monthly payment is $1100 a month for the next 10 years. He is making about 24,000 a year.
Needless to say he will be living in his parents basement until he is 35.

[vortac]

All this will happen quickly when Air Canada reduces or cancels it's contractual agreement with Jazz. Then starts soliciting bids from smaller regional start-up companies across the country. Lowest bidders will win the contracts and paint all their aircraft in AC logo and colors under a licensing agreement. Those companies will all hire CPL pilots directly out of flight school (often under a train/work contract scheme) and soon most will be making 20k for the right seat and 40k for the left in a 75-125 seat RJ, Q400 or EMJ with 100,000 debt for the rest of our lives.

What a dream to look forward and tell the kids about.

[Stevo226]

To me after recent experience flights in the U.S now are just buses with wings and therefore the Regional pilots are just treated like a bus drivers. It's pretty sad to know this and that one day Canada may be the same

I Wish!!

these goddamn busdrivers in YXU were on strike last month because $25/hour starting wage isn't enough for them

that's always the way it is, those with a union don't need one. Those without, definetly need one