1 to share cost on old school road trip

[oldncold]

ok it leaves feb 01 2010 cyqt 2 -1/2 weeks all the major hots spots n some urban centers to take the road grime out of the journey.

costs expected to be a g note a piece in a reliable awd car.

still believe in face to face inspite of email .

requirements positive attitude / a selection of cd's/ your own timmy's refill mug / at least 100 copyies of your best resume and reasonble grooming habits . pm me if your interested

[Doc]

ok it leaves feb 01 2010 cyqt 2 -1/2 weeks all the major hots spots n some urban centers to take the road grime out of the journey.

costs expected to be a g note a piece in a reliable awd car.

still believe in face to face inspite of email .

requirements positive attitude / a selection of cd's/ your own timmy's refill mug / at least 100 copyies of your best resume and reasonble grooming habits . pm me if your interested

CPs just love to see a herd of unemployed pilots in a "pilot car" arriving on the doorstep! Good luck with that.

[200hr Wonder]

oldncold I have done some hiring, though not for aviation, here is my advice:

1. Showing up in pairs is not a good idea. Though economically it can save on gas etc. Perhaps the best situation is to each come up with a list of places to apply, and then hit each place twice. Once on the way there and once on the way back, showing up alone. I would highly suggest NOT showing up together.

2. Dress the part. Dockers and a collard shirt for the bush operators and a shirt and tie if the company wears the white and shirt and tie deal. Take the time to ensure they are ironed.

3. Be clean shaven and well groomed.

4. Ensure that the car is neat and tidy. It may not have to be super clean as you are on a road trip, but neat and tidy and not having timmies cups and McDonalds bags all over is a big thing. I as a hiring manager ALWAYS try and get a look at a candidates car. It does not have to be new, but the condition should be clean neat and tidy just like you.

5. Bring a resume and be nice, to the receptionist. If the CP or hiring manager is not around, and you can impress the receptionist, she may pass on a good word to the person who gets the resume.

6. Follow up, with an email in 1 week after you send the resume and every month there after. My current job took 3 months to land.

Remember that as a low time pilot you have the same skills as just about every other lowtimer. So what makes you different? Why should I hire YOU over the other guy? I really do not care that you have a MIFR with 300hrs or whatever you have. So does every resume that I get. What have you done what do you know that separates you from the other people?

[Doc]

Be sure to print your resumes on "cloud" paper, in the smallest "Old English" font, and include a photo of yourself in a Speedo.

[HO Driver]

200hr, you actually check out the applicants car for cleanliness?!? WTF? So now your vehicle has to be detailed to land that 18k/yr dream job? Come on!!

[Doc]

200hr, you actually check out the applicants car for cleanliness?!? WTF? So now your vehicle has to be detailed to land that 18k/yr dream job? Come on!!

I kind of like seeing a car that's been slept in....

[HO Driver]

Maybe the collage programs should drop the 2 day "outside air temperature gauge 101" course and focus on teaching these up and coming professional pilots how to keep their vehicles clean.
Man, I really feel for you guys/gals looking for your first job.

[Tim]

useful as always doc. very inspirational.

[200hr Wonder]

200hr, you actually check out the applicants car for cleanliness?!? WTF? So now your vehicle has to be detailed to land that 18k/yr dream job? Come on!!

As a mater of fact yes. The whole package - clean shoes, clean car, ironed pants/shirt give a good indication as to what to expect from someone. It shows pride in ones self. In aviation I would be trusting someone with an expensive peace of equipment and expect that it would be kept clean, even in the bush. A car is a very good indication of just how a person operates. What is the harm in showing up in a neat and tidy car? Just like showing up early, having a firm hand shake and looking the person in the eye. You are one of 100s of potential candidates for any given job with very similar qualifications, any iota to give you that leg up is worth the effort.

This of course is just my opinion but who would you rather hire? The 500hr Wonder who shows up in a car with timmies cups falling out a weeks worth of McDonalds wrappers on the dash or someone who shows up in a reasonably neat and tidy car? All other factors being equal. Remember at this point as Tyler Durden would say you are not a unique and special flower. You have a couple of hundred hours flying like everyone else. Your skills are going to be more or less the same as everyone else when it comes to piloting.

Things that would set a low time pilot apart in my books:

-Customer Service experience, small airplanes mean you end up dealing with them quite often. This includes a good phone manner when going for an interview.

-Professionalism, The above I think adds to your image and lets face it you need to produce a good product and one of the images you need to cultivate is a good professional image to do so. Avoid things like slang in your email etc. Oh and if you have an email like baddasspilotdrinker09@hotmail.com perhaps it is time to consider a second professional email?

-Team Fit, This would be one of the most important things, you need a person who is going to fit into your team however it functions. This is hard to target for a given company as everyone has a different dynamic, so really just be your self and realize you are not going to fit in with every small company.

Something important to remember - The pilot community in Canada is SMALL so chances are you are only ever going to be a few degrees of separation away from any pilot, perhaps your next chief pilot or ops manager. Treat everyone with respect, courtesy and professionally that you meet. Chances are there are going to be some people you just don't like, but none the less treat them with professional courtesy.

As for Doc and Ho, thanks for helping out a low time guy who is looking to land a job, your advice I am sure will do him well.

[iflyforpie]

I agree with the clean car concept. It's because it isn't the dream job that you need to take care of everything. If you are the one applicant for the 10,000 hour training captain job, you don't have to worry as much.

A dirty car just shows that you are putting up a front with the clean shirt and pants, and that you might carry that lack of respect over to the aircraft.

Maybe most people won't care, but for the one person that does that might be a lost opportunity.

Is that worth a $3 car wash and stopping by a litter barrel? I think so!

[Main Gear]

Trying to find a car wash "up North" may be easier said then done

[200hr Wonder]

YXL has two FYI. And road grim is one thing but really it is about trash covering the inside, week old timmies cups and a full ashtray. I am pretty sure I pointed out.

[Main Gear]

YXL has two FYI.

Nice...That's two more than my town has.

[barnstorm]

200hr (or any other employers)

What is your opinion on female grooming, not only at the interview but coming to work in general? I guess more straight forward, is makeup acceptable as part of the grooming process (I'm not talking parrot explosion with vibrant colours or anything FYI). I know this is a male dominated industry and I'm not sure if makeup and long hair will create some sort of prejudice.

[200hr Wonder]

Personally I could care less. Where I was doing the hiring was IT, again another male dominated industry. If you look like you are going out to the night club, perhaps re-think your makeup. If you look like you just rolled out of bed again maybe spend a little more time on it. But no makeup is just as fine as reasonable conservative makeup. For a job interview I would suggest you are safest with just a little.

The issue of skirt or pants is also another one that comes up often. I would suggest look at what other office employees are wearing when you drop off your resume if you can, if they wear a skirt so do you.

However in all honesty, so long as it is professional looking, pressed and clean, the specifics don't really matter as much, just the overall impression.

[HO Driver]

Well to all you hiring guys, I still think you need to loosen your ties off a bit. I had a roommate/co-worker who was a complete slob. His car was a mess as was his room in the crew house but when it came to work he was the absolute poster boy for professionalism, pressed pants and shirts etc. He was very easy on equipment and was just amazing with our charter customers. We had people requesting him as a crew member for their repeat charters! This guy was a manager’s dream pilot. Fortunately the CP didn't bother to look at his car and did hire this guy. What a mistake it would have been to pass this guy over due to how he chooses to conduct his personal life.
I'm just saying, don't be too quick to judge a person based on a car.

HD

[arctic navigator]

What happend Dan, the ol' Platipus just not cuttin it any more???

[200hr Wonder]

And how did he manage to get the job HO?

Here is the situation... say you have 500 applicants for a given job all of about the same experience level.

You need someway to cull the pile. Is it perfect? Nope not even close! I have hired some duds. So if I see your friend come in, and someone with the exact same qualifications, who do you think I am going to choose? All other things being equal. A personal reference or a stellar interview can overcome a lot of things, however I am simply offering advice on how to get the best chance at a job.

The job of an interviewer, be it CP, Ops manager, HR, is to judge, and I think it is incumbent to use all information to make the judgment on weather or not someone fits what you are looking for.

[MrWings]

The issue of skirt or pants is also another one that comes up often. I would suggest look at what other office employees are wearing when you drop off your resume if you can, if they wear a skirt so do you.

If you applying for a pilot job, don't wear a skirt. I have never seen a female pilot wear a skirt.

Sure, some front office staff do. But if you want to be a pilot, look like a pilot (and I don't mean wear those damn wings). Pilots wear pants.

I've known some great female pilots. They were not butch. Ladies, you don't have to look like a man. But you don't want to appear as if your nails will break if you lift a bag or that you'll cry if you get grease on your hands. I've known some male pilots that looked like that.

[Lost Lake]

Hey 200 hour wonder. If you show up weighing 300 lb plus, do you think a shiny car will help get a flying job?

I tend to dress down, dark biker glasses, paste on tatoos if I have any (just not the Canadian flag on my face), bahama momma shirt and sandals. It shows that you are more confident in your flying skills, than trying to be a poster boy for Flying magazine.

[iflyforpie]

Hey 200 hour wonder. If you show up weighing 300 lb plus, do you think a shiny car will help get a flying job?

I tend to dress down, dark biker glasses, paste on tatoos if I have any (just not the Canadian flag on my face), bahama momma shirt and sandals. It shows that you are more confident in your flying skills, than trying to be a poster boy for Flying magazine.

So true!

Just look at this guy, he's captain of a Twotter!

[Lost Lake]

And no, that is not a banana in my lap. I stopped pasting that pic on my resume. Too many female managers just wanted to meet me. I got more phone numbers than job offers.

[Rowdy]

Growing up as a young lad it was instilled into me that you can tell a lot about a person by the way they take care of their car. I mean, for the most part it is a sizeable purchase and requires $ for upkeep, insurance and so forth. If the thing looks like an absolute disaster, the individual obviously does not care enough to protect his investment and may well not care to do the same for the 350k beaver or million dollar caravan hes trying to get a job driving.

I wouldnt scrutinize someones vehicle on a road trip, but if I looked through my window and saw a rusted hulk of an '88 Honda accord that had never in its life been washed, had all kinds of body damage and was filled with garbage pull into the lot, I most likely would be a lot more skeptical about employing them.

Best words of advice that need to be repeated. Understand the job you're applying for. Show up accordingly ready, willing and able.

[Kilo-Kilo]

....but if I looked through my window and saw a rusted hulk of an '88 Honda accord that had never in its life been washed....

Were those even allowed in the parking lot of Detroit '60?

[loopa]

Hey 200 hour wonder. If you show up weighing 300 lb plus, do you think a shiny car will help get a flying job?

Well that was rather "rude" ...