Kenn Borek working conditions, costs and training

[Carrier]

Borek requires pilots to buy their own charts for Canada. Is this just VFR and IFR charts or do pilots also have to buy their own CFS and CAP? Must a pilot have these for the whole of Canada or can they cover only part of the country? What else must they buy? What does the average Borek pilot pay for these in a year?
In several decades of flying I have always had charts, etc, provided by my employers. There have been reasonable clothing allowances or provisions, some have provided headsets, and two (one military and one civil) provided parachutes. Accommodation away from base has always been provided at company expense. Do those who oppose pilots paying for type ratings and bonds have any opinion on pilots being forced to buy their own charts, etc?

Does a similar situation exist with Borek's company accommodation? Pilots working for some companies (eg Courtesy Air in Buffalo Narrows, SK) have to pay rent for company accommodation. Are Borek pilots charged rent when stationed away from Calgary and Edmonton? What is the Borek accommodation like? Courtesy's is good but some operators put pilots into squalid, filthy, ill maintained doss houses that indicate what the operator thinks of its employees!

Are there many married pilots at Borek? The rotation and/or randomly structured working lifestyle would seem to suit single people. If there are any married pilots at Borek do any stay there on a permanent basis and does working at Borek have any effect on their marriages?

What is Borek's training like? Most 703/704 operators "train to the minimum" to get someone through a PPC or PCC They will not provide the necessary training to ensure that a pilot is fully competent. Where does Borek stand on this?

[Slipster]

Been a bit since I worked for the red black and white but I did see their pilots at Flight safety in the sim DHC 6. In feb 09. Cant tell you what went on in the can but the fact that they are there does say something to the affect that training may be happening. As for rent at the bases I dont think that you as a pilot pay directly.. (wages dont allow it)
The food is paid and the housing is reasonable for the "bush"

Yup you buy your charts and maps And the wages are less than average but the flying is great and the twin is a fun AC. Not to mention the the people and places.

[Donald]

Careful son, folks around here don't take kindly to bashing of KB, justified or not.

[Slipster]

Hope youre not thinking Im bashing KB.... They provided me with my footing in aviation. I very much enjoyed my experience there. Every company has its pitt falls including KB... But as for the experience I wouldnt have traded it for anything.

[50'minimums]

Yes you pay for charts, most often it was the skippers who had them. Lots of people used to split a subscription with their rotation opposite, and they are tax deductable. Clothing allowance is on a yearly basis, for 300 bucks if I remember right. Training is done very well. Didnt see to many people flunk rides as they trained pilots until they were ready for a ride instead of just the min time requirement. Often training does take place in the middle of the night as a/c tend to be pretty busy durring the day. You dont pay for the crew housing it is provided, and food is provided through per diem. Pay is above average for capt. and on par for f/o. The bonus is you only work half a year which allows you to pad the bank account with a part time job on your time off. The flying is awsome, the people are just as good, maint. is great. By far the most enjoyable flying job Ive had.

['effin hippie]

Yes you buy your own charts.

Housing is provided. Depending on your roomies it could get pretty squalid. Per diems for groceries, these vary from base to base.

Money is OK. Pretty decent if you like getting 26 weeks off per year.

KBAL has lots of married pilots, and I think most would say that being gone half the time puts a strain on the relationship.

ef

[ettw]

KBAL has lots of married pilots, and I think most would say that being gone half the time puts a strain on the relationship.

ef

+1

ETTW

[CL-Skadoo!]

KBAL has lots of married pilots, and I think most would say that being gone half the time puts a strain on the relationship.

ef

Didn't they see that one coming? "Oh honey, I accepted this great new job! Wait a second, it says here that I have to live in the arctic 2 weeks at a time with a group of re-tards."
Must be in the small print of the Kenn Borek welcome package.

Anyway, life itself puts strain on a relationship, consider this a proper proving ground.

[2R]

Used to be four weeks ,then three weeks ,maybe it will soon be monday to friday,NOT

[Mr. North]

Any signs of movement at KB? Will they be looking for captains soon?

[Rowdy]

4 weeks on and 2 weeks out for beech copilots now.. thats gotta be rough on married/social life.

Still 3 and 3 on the otter.. and lots of random and scattered changes. It is what it is because of the work thats done though and there are some neat experiences. If you're single or a lifer type bush guy.. being a capt. at borek is a great spot.

Some love it some hate it. To each his own.

the charts.plates thing always made me wonder... but thats only for guys that are rotating to fixed bases or flying out of yyc/yeg. If you're on a crazy contract, ferry flight or elsewise, you're well provided for with all the neccesities.

['effin hippie]

Anyway, life itself puts strain on a relationship, consider this a proper proving ground.

Being a re-tard certainly puts a strain on it anyway...

ef

[VintageSky]

I hear some interesting things have been happening since the shift in management and pennikett being gone...

[co-joe]

For the most part the captains buy their own plates (cause they bring home the big bucks) and the FO's use vintage or hand me down plates. It kind of makes sense for the northern bases. What if you were counting on using the plate for YEV and it wasn't in the plane or someone accidentally took it home, now you can't fly until another one turns up? Plus you can write your cold temp corrections all over it...It's just easier to make everyone have their own. It is a pain when you only make 30 k a year though.

[Donald]

What if you guys got together and informed managment that the only way you were going IFR was if they bought the plates? Oh wait, everyone has to get together...

[Brantford Beech Boy]

For the most part the captains buy their own plates (cause they bring home the big bucks) and the FO's use vintage or hand me down plates. It kind of makes sense for the northern bases. What if you were counting on using the plate for YEV and it wasn't in the plane or someone accidentally took it home, now you can't fly until another one turns up? Plus you can write your cold temp corrections all over it...It's just easier to make everyone have their own. It is a pain when you only make 30 k a year though.

Nope. F/os have thier own set of up-to-date plates. As stated earlier, most split the subscription cost with thier rotational partner.

I hear some interesting things have been happening since the shift in management and pennikett being gone...

Can't say. I've only been here under the "new" managment.

Any signs of movement at KB? Will they be looking for captains soon?

Not at the moment. There are still F/Os in the system that are nearing upgrades. The previous few "new" captains have been soley upgrades. Subject to change...

Used to be four weeks ,then three weeks ,maybe it will soon be monday to friday,NOT

See Rowdy's post. Rotation length depends on which machine/contract you are working.

cheers
BBB

[V2]

What if you were counting on using the plate for YEV and it wasn't in the plane or someone accidentally took it home, now you can't fly until another one turns up?

Yes because missing plates are a big problem at all other airlines, fact is it's a cheap corner to cut for KBA. Every company has it's quirks and corner cutting, this happens to be KBA's, could certainly be a lot worse compared to other ops.

[CL-Skadoo!]

Every company has it's quirks and corner cutting, this happens to be KBA's, could certainly be a lot worse compared to other ops.

There's that lovely aviation attitude again, "could be worse". Whatever happened to could be better?

[Invertago]

Every company has it's quirks and corner cutting, this happens to be KBA's, could certainly be a lot worse compared to other ops.

There's that lovely aviation attitude again, "could be worse". Whatever happened to could be better?

A bitter taste of reality?

[The Hammer]

Our airline supplies plates in the aircraft but I need 3 (40%) extra sets to ensure we make it to 56 days. No accountability, tired of baby sitting. Real canadian airline pilots have to update/carry their own plates but the "Y" generation doesn't feel they have to.

IMHO

[turbo-prop]

Carry them yes pay for them no.

[just curious]

I was away, or I would have tried to adress this for you earlier.

Borek requires pilots to buy their own charts for Canada. Is this just VFR and IFR charts or do pilots also have to buy their own CFS and CAP? Must a pilot have these for the whole of Canada or can they cover only part of the country? What else must they buy? What does the average Borek pilot pay for these in a year?

Pilotage charts, CFS, Cap for region and appropriate VFR charts, black boot, 1/2 of a flight suit. I haven't a clue what we pay.

There have been reasonable clothing allowances or provisions, some have provided headsets, and two (one military and one civil) provided parachutes.

We don't pay for parachutes.

Does a similar situation exist with Borek's company accommodation? Pilots working for some companies (eg Courtesy Air in Buffalo Narrows, SK) have to pay rent for company accommodation. Are Borek pilots charged rent when stationed away from Calgary and Edmonton? What is the Borek accommodation like? Courtesy's is good but some operators put pilots into squalid, filthy, ill maintained doss houses that indicate what the operator thinks of its employees!

Rotation housing is paid. Enroute accomodation is paid. Most of the ones I've stayed at were ok, but I have a house at my principal base.

Are there many married pilots at Borek? The rotation and/or randomly structured working lifestyle would seem to suit single people. If there are any married pilots at Borek do any stay there on a permanent basis and does working at Borek have any effect on their marriages?

Most captains are married. I've been here 20 years, and I'm still married.

What is Borek's training like? Most 703/704 operators "train to the minimum" to get someone through a PPC or PCC They will not provide the necessary training to ensure that a pilot is fully competent. Where does Borek stand on this?

When I jooined trainnig was minimal. At the same time, turnover was nil. TrainingTends to be qquite good on the Otter side, since trainers gerally have a few thousand on type., and simulator training is more commmon. Traiing tend to be thorough simply because the check pilots like to ensure that an aircraft they make a living on is not mangled through procedural difficulties, or training defects.

Any signs of movement at KB? Will they be looking for captains soon?

It's spring so things will get busy. But promotions will be from within.

[bronco78]

**

[Cobra64]

" YUP, I am getting out ASAP. 10 years is my limit."

so there is a position opening up?

[av8tor_assrope]

" YUP, I am getting out ASAP. 10 years is my limit."

so there is a position opening up?

That's awesome! Beer almost came out of my nose when I read that!!!

I worked at KBA under the old management and the new one. Its a solid company and you can bag some great time there. Yes it wasn't perfect but show me a company that is. I had an awesome time working for KBAL and I often flirt with the idea of going back. When I was there I tried to work as hard as I could and kept my mouth shut when I should. I normally always got what I wanted.

My 2 cents.
Cheers