Aviation College Programs

[spot45]

Hello there this is my first ever post.

Just curious if anyone on here has applied to any Aviation College Programs like Seneca, Selkirk, Confed, Mount Royal...

Also anyone at these schools or been to em please I would love some information on them from Alumni

Any one got any responses yet?

S

[Walker]

Not to dissuade you if this is the direction your thinking of going, but you should also consider just applying to regular uni and learning at a mom & pop shop that has a 702/703.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

You're opening a whole bag of worms here. Try doing a search of threads already created because there is A LOT of debate on it.

I attended Confederation College, but was a flight instructor at a couple private flight schools as well as at Con College. My opinion on the post above is it takes too long and way too much money to get both a degree and flight training when the first company you'll run into in your career that even asks about the degree is Air Canada... But doing it privately has its own benefits over college which you should explore.

But back to your real question Con College was good as long as you studied hard (at least for the first year). A lot of people go in thinking it's a cake walk and slack off and then come the final exam in December realize they now need a 90% on the ground school exam to get the min final mark of 70% to get into the next semester. So if you're not an academically minded person you can make it through, but you really do have to work. Even if you are academically minded you have to.
I did however find their training to be very high quality, instructors were great people who sincerely cared about you and your career, it's affordable compared to other colleges, and it's great for networking with other young pilots. Downside is you have to be available to go to school any day of the week (flying on weekends), there will be periods of time where you don't fly much due to the cold weather and/or plane availability, no multi-IFR (but there is floats), and some of the courses they make you take are a bummer.

And when people come on here and start blasting colleges for not allowing students to fly in over 5 kts of crosswind, remember they're only referring to Seneca. And I don't actually know it there's any truth to that.

I would recommend Con College based on my experience, others I'm sure will disagree. Good luck!

Longest post ever is now complete.

[macbainz1]

Yeah you will find some info on here. But I had a look and in previous years there have been a lot more members on here applying for there colleges (not as many people have posted about enrolling and information It seems compared to a few years back). Maybe people have been scared by the industry and enrollment in these programs will be lower this year.

It seems pretty logical from someone coming outa high school NOT to go into an industry thats as hard as this one, very risky and expensive.

[. ._]

Search around on this website. You'll find lots of info on colleges.

search.php

I went to Sault College because it is the cheapest place in Canada to get a Commercial Multi-IFR.

I found it to be extremely difficult and frustrating, but the ground school is tip-top, IMHO. The planes are in amazing shape, and Sault Ste. Marie has a pretty low cost of living.

To be honest, by the time I graduated from there, I wanted to burn the place to the ground, but now I only remember the good people and times.

Search, search, search. That's my final advice.

Good luck, spot45!

-istp

[gustind]

And when people come on here and start blasting colleges for not allowing students to fly in over 5 kts of crosswind, remember they're only referring to Seneca. And I don't actually know it there's any truth to that.

To clarify, this only exists in the pre-cross country solo stage. So anything from solo to solo x-country is 5 knots max. Once at the x-country stage, students can have it raised as long as it is demonstrated.

Cheers.

[GoinNowhereFast]

To be honest, by the time I graduated from there, I wanted to burn the place to the ground, but now I only remember the good people and times.

That's probably the best one sentence summary of Soo College I have ever heard!

[spot45]

so anyone applied to Selkirk or confed this year or am I the only person whos on this website that is applying this year.

Anyone else out there?

[TaintedGravity]

I'm planning on going there after this year. I'm finishing a university degree first. Are you planning on staying in residence?

[x15]

Good morning.

I am a graduate of one of the colleges you mentioned. While I was in attendance I was banging my head against the wall wondering why I had chosen to take the longest possible path toward a job. I saw guys finishing their licenses at Toronto Airways inside of 2 years and getting spots on Pilatus's while I was still bombing around trying to get my training done.

So you would think that I would tell you that the college path is not all that good. Considering my experience wasn't all roses. Well I wont be saying that. The college program has several things going for it over the standard commercial flight schools.

1. The staff are typically operationally employed in addition to being instructors. Or are retired operational pilots. Compared with local flight school which has a whole swarm of class four instructors that have little idea what is going on. Having been a class 4 instructor at the biggest school in Canada I had the chance to witness first hand the serious repercussions of poor knowledge transfer.

Which brings me to the point. In order for there to be appreciable knowledge transfer the person doing the teaching should be vastly more experienced than you. Not only have 200 hours in a 172. The college program I attended has ex airforce pilots, current airline captains, former standards pilots from TC teaching both in airplane and in class... I was allowed the opportunity to learn from them directly and indirectly. By indirectly I mean not just what came out of their mouths, but watching them operate and observing their decision making processes. The years of flying in 703 ops in northern ontario and their extensive jet time really increased the quality of their instruction. Compared to learning to fly from a guy that is still learning to use the rudder himself as a class 4 instructor.

2. The foundation. All of the colleges give you a far better baseline foundation to buiild on. You will emerge from any of the flight colleges with one thing. A good foundation to build on. You are not going to be a superior pilot to a guy from a flight school. But your foundation will be better. So it is less likely to crack when you apply pressure to it later. By foundation I mean. Extensive CRM, SOP, Human Factors, Aircraft Systems, Risk Management and communication training.

Every year trained pilots fly perfectly good airplanes into the ground because they failed to understand something. Because they did not understand themselves, or their crew or the aircraft systems as well as they could have. The college will not make you awesome at this. However like an oak tree these things take time to grow. Why not plant the seeds early while you are still bombing around in a 172. That way when you get to flying a king air or a navajo on your own and suffer a loss in situational awareness, crew communications or aircraft systems you will be more prepared to deal with the situation.

The commercial flight schools simply dont have time or the knowledge base to effectivly teach these things. The school I worked for was more interested in generating revenue. Cared very little about the students and their individual goals. I made each student a unique case and taught as much as I could. But being only a class 4 that had graduated from school I was limited in what I could pass onto a new student. I am now flying for a 703 operator and can tell you that my experiences from college have helped me immensly in being a pilot that stives to become an excellent airman.

When I graduated from the college I did not know everything. You could say I knew very little in the grand scheme of things. But I was equipped with the basic tools to learn along the way and self develop my personal flight discipline, my IFR and general flying skill, to maintain my proficiency. I work hard at understanding myself and my crew members. I study my aircraft systems so as to be as knowledgable as possible for the day I have to deal with an emergency and earn all of my salary by saving the machine and the people behind me. To understand company SOPs, the rules of the sky, the weather and how all of these things form together with judgement to create a good situational awareness.

The colleges will give you a good start on all of these things. Things that you will build on for the rest of your career. Things that make you an excellent airman. Some of the commercial flight schools may not be up to this challenge after having worked at the largest one in Canada I saw severe deficiencies... However as stated in the following post this is not true of all schools. Best of luck


My 2 cents.

PS. Editted because althought I can keep the blue side up; apparently I dont speak the good canada.

[iflyforpie]

The colleges will give you a good start on all of these things. Things that you will build on for the rest of your career. Things that make you an excellent airman. The commercial flight schools do not do this.

My 2 cents.

I found the exact opposite to be true in my experiences.

I did my PPL at an FTU that offered a college degree program. All of my instructors were Class 4 or 3, under 1000 hours, and had little to no operational experience of any kind. Each had graduated from the same college and none could relate to me any industry experiences beyond this one company.

I did my CPL at a mom and pop operation that also had a smaller 702/703 operation in place. It took me one year of training instead of two, I paid half of what I would have paid at a college, and I got direct access to experienced flight instructors. Pretty much all of my CPL training was done by a Class 2 ATPL and a couple of the staff had 705 and military experience. We did flights into strips that would have made the place I did my PPL cringe, and they let me go places that would have required a mountain of paperwork at the college.

So Caveat Emptor. There can be diamonds in the rough just as there can be lead beneath gold paint.

[flightlead]

Lot's of respectable posts here. A Confed Grad myself, I would not trade anything for the experiences I had . The staff, etc . I have 2 good buds from Sault College, who have shared both positive and negative experiences there. I have 2 friends currently enrolled in Seneca's program, both currently enjoying themselves , as well, another good bud who graduated from Western's FM program 2 years ago. Bottom line is , regardless of where you go , money, patience, time, and effort will be required to succeed . Government Subsidies help take care of the money aspect for us students who are enrolled within the colleges. That leaves time, effort, and patience. Balance these three things and you will succeed. I was a low 70s student through high school, yet I could pull off 80+ on TC writtens and flight tests. If you have the drive, it will breeze by with enjoyment .

[C-GOYR]

I gotta say this post contains a lot of insightful information and I would like to thank all those that have shared their experience and opinion on this topic. It might seem redundant to have these topics show up but, as you all can attest to, there are always tons of questions from those considering this line of work.

I don't wanna hijack the post but I've got two more subjects to upgrade (physics and calc) in hopes of making the application deadline for sept. 2010. I do plan on living on campus and have been in contact with the coordinator of the program.

But once again, very good information that I'll definately read again.

thanks.

[spot45]

I gotta say this post contains a lot of insightful information and I would like to thank all those that have shared their experience and opinion on this topic. It might seem redundant to have these topics show up but, as you all can attest to, there are always tons of questions from those considering this line of work.

I don't wanna hijack the post but I've got two more subjects to upgrade (physics and calc) in hopes of making the application deadline for sept. 2010. I do plan on living on campus and have been in contact with the coordinator of the program.

But once again, very good information that I'll definately read again.

thanks.

Hey

Which program you aiming for?

[whatajoke]

filler filler filler filler filler filler

[x15]

I'm at Seneca College right now and just wanted to say that this place id us a joke.

Guess they changed their minds again. Money money money. Ah well, tell me what you think everybody. Perhaps those University/flight club programs are better? Flame away.

There are 3 choices when it comes to identifying problems and how you manage them.

1. Bitch and complain that everyone else other than you is not perfect and hold them to a standard that superman could not maintain and try to make everyone else around you be bitter and see it your way. Offer no solutions.

2. Shut up and just watch as things spiral downward and focus on the negatives at every opportunity

3. Find the positives in every situation, and if there isnt any. Work positivly to find solutions and reccommend them to management so they can make the necessary changes.

If you pick 1 or 2 your career in aviation will be miserable. Not just your time at Seneca. But always. Pick option 3. They may listen they may not. But you at least wont be regarded as the angry guy. Because the people that see you maintain a positive outlook regardless of the situation will remember later and be in a positions to vouch for you.

Find the positives and remember that you love flying so much that minor setbacks are of little or no consequence.

[Cat Driver]

No one likes a guy that bitches about everything. So my advice. Find the positives and remember that you love flying so much that minor setbacks are of no consequence.

In the same mindset you could say you love sex so much getting the clap is just a minor set back.

[floatrfun]

Having a post secondary education is never a bad idea but I would suggest doing in a different field so you have a back up plan. I took the Aviation diploma program at NAIT in Edmonton many moons ago before they shut down. It never helped me one bit in the industry and in fact, some of the employers I applied said "So you are one of those aviation diploma guys hey?" Keep in mind, I didn't want to work as a flight instructor. Ironically now that I have my own flight training business, I am an instructor and love it but I am glad I didn't start out as one as at least now I feel i have something to teach. As far as Air Canada, they still like to see some post secondary education but they don't care if it an aviation college program. Oh and every summer I get West Jet Pilots and Air Canada pilots dropping by my docks saying they miss really flying. I have no desire to work for a major airline myself but I hear lots of stories from guys that finally get there and they miss their days working as bush pilot.