More New Aircraft for the CAF

[Bushav8er]

17 New C130J Super Hercules for the military. After years of Liberal neglect finally the military is getting what they need, first the C17s now these -

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/pres ... adian.html

[reality check]

HEy Bushy,

You ever stop to think what's being neglected to pay for those a/c?

Just say'in

[denkauto]

+1, pay our doctors better, reduce hospital wait times, these are the things that are important.

[Hedley]

You ever stop to think what's being neglected to pay for those a/c?

Yes, I understand the government has only spent two billion dollars on the national gun registry so far.

If the military didn't buy any new aircraft, I suppose the government could spend some more money on the gun registry.

[Bushav8er]

If military spending had been budgeted during the Liberal years it wouldn't cost so much now to bring them up to where they should be. If we have a military they should at least be equipped to a standard that allows them to do their jobs and safely. And let's not forget that when they get new equipment they sell off the old.

And pay Doctors more? Are you kidding? Doctors pay doesn't equate to shorter wait times, if you really want to save at hospitals clean up the wasteful admin boards.

[reality check]

If we have a military they should at least be equipped to a standard that allows them to do their jobs and safely.

And pay Doctors more? Are you kidding?

Mmmm, don't recall saying anything about paying Doctors more, but perhaps hospitals reducing or getting rid of essential services entirely might be a problem? No? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Gun registry, yes, we should should certainly spend more on that - who writes your stuff Head? Cuz that's exactly what we're talking about.

The military should be equipped properly, no question. But so should schools, health-care, and other essential services, not to mention the upkeep of roads and other infrastructure important to our economy and putting money in your pocket. You seen a cost analysis on the C17 lately? Ouch.

You lead with the usual Liberal bashing tripe seconded by H, highly original. I was simply pointing out that if you are going to chastise the poor old Libs for neglecting the boys and girls with guns, or the registry, perhaps we need to take a look at who the current administration is neglecting, no? It may very well be you and your kids. Hell, they don't even see fit to represent you this quarter! Yet some on here will still defend them like they are any different than the Libs were before them - wake up Canada, you're bent over just as you were before, only it's blue this time instead of red.

Don't worry about the Government spending now, or the prorogue, the OLYMPICS are almost here, surly it can wait while we tune in?

Nice to see an upgrade for the Forces, but enough with the partisan BS SVP.

[The Old Fogducker]

Yes Check ... that money "squandered" on doing the job "we" have tasked the Armed Forces with performing should certainly be going to something "worthwhile" ...... like increased welfare benefits for single mothers, and grants for the starving artists that are trying to come up with yet another inspiration to put down on canvas. Or even paying Air Traffic Controllers for that matter ... oh yes, I forgot ... NAVCAN is private and nary a dime of public money goes into supporting that infrastructure ... my mistake.

Those scumbag Liberals and their close bedfellows, the NDP, have diverted funds from properly equipping the forces for decades into other "worthwhile" projects to create a dependent class of voters in the name of "social justice" purely so they could maintain a grip on power, like an alkie maintains a grip on a near-empty whiskey bottle at 0200 on a Saturday night binge.

The Liberals ended up paying more in cancellation penalties for the Sea King replacement than it would have cost to take them in the first place. That ideologically driven move was quite telling for me.

No partisan viewpoint involved ... as Dragnet's Sgt Joe Friday used to say, "Just the facts, nothing but the facts."

I'm just sayin' is all. .... just trying to promote some healthy discussion and intercourse on a complex social topic ... certainly nothing personal or anything ... fer sure, no harm meant ... and I sure never meant to hurt anyone's feelings, because I know "feelings" are soooo much more important than actual facts ... may heaven strike me dead if I offended anyone!

The Old Fogducker

PS ... Hedley ... good to see you back.

[Old fella]

".......You seen a cost analysis on the C17 lately? Ouch."


Wasn't the Newfie General of all things Afghanistan a little torqued with the acquisition of those things……?

[joco]

Forget C17, doctors, gun registry. Do you think that is acceptable to have children missing meals in this day and age in Canada??? It was in the news just today. Again.

Only if you are a parent you will understand this issue! Belive you me, charity starts at home, not on the battle field half globe away.

[The Old Fogducker]

There's only one reason children go hungry in Canada ... Parents. I guess I could expand that to ... Parents, or lack of them.

Maybe the government should be seizing more children from negligent parents then Joco ... that would solve the problem wouldn't it? After all, they are negligent aren't they?

Or have I missed the mark?

There were hungry kids before the C-17 and there will be hungry kids even if we tripled the money given to parents from government coffers .... those coffers by the way, means somebody else's pockets.

Someone who has been responsible.

OFD

[Bushav8er]

reality check - you didn't say anything about Doctors, sorry you thought I implied 'you'. The following is not necessarily directed at you.

I didn't post this as a political debate. Merely as a good news story for our neglected military.

Is it not true they have been neglected by past Liberal governments?

Unlike other military forces, ours has a primary purpose of Humanitarian assistance and Peace Keeping, not to mention another major component - SAR.

Canada is a major player in Haiti - Humanitarian mission. Some will bring up the Afghanistan situation but take the time to see what our mission is there.

Its about time our troops had new and safer equipment. Is it expensive - sure, but I'd rather see my money spent there then in bailing out the auto industry! (Or the gun [Liberal] registry)

Do we need to spend money in other areas - certainly, but again more areas neglected by (all) previous governments - pass the buck. At some point you can no longer pass it.

So, as someone that has served his Country, under different Governments, for more than a decade - yes, I'm still proud and pleased that our young Men & Woman are getting what they need. Until you have marched with more then a protest sign...

The Old Fogducker - lol, I was going to say something - just like that - but backed off. Parents. And a licence to breed!

[joco]

OFD - you are right, the parents are the issue, that is the area where the tax dollars can make a difference, by creating employment rather than making grand stand purchases. The government should be the last entity to actually get involved in raising children. However it should create the right circumstances for fostering proper care for the young.

Bushav8tor - sorry for contributing to the thread sideline. If our government would have retained the peace keeping profile of the military, then we would not have this discussion. But we have an active offensive role in the ongoing war effort. It is the reality. Speaking of the reality check....

Spending money in the effort of becoming a power broker of this world is the wrong thing to do. But that is just me....

Anyway, a bit late, but thanks for posting the aviation related news link.

[Bushav8er]

Not to pick on you Joco but

If our government would have retained the peace keeping profile of the military, then we would not have this discussion.

That is why more discussion is needed.
I too am proud of our historical Peace Keeping missions and reputation. The misconception is that Afghanistan is not such a mission. This is thanks in part to the media and the Americans use of the term 'war'.
Our mission there is in fact a Peace Making one.

Its primary objective is to help the Afghan government establish a stable and secure environment that will allow sustainable reconstruction, development, and good governance to take root and flourish.

ref: http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afg ... =66&menu=L

The first four priorities focus primarily on Kandahar. Canada is helping the Government of Afghanistan to:

* maintain a more secure environment and establish law and order by building the capacity of the Afghan National Army and Police, and support complementary efforts in the areas of justice and corrections.
* provide jobs, education, and essential services, like water.
* provide humanitarian assistance to people in need, including refugees.
* enhance the management and security of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

Ref:http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afg ... x?lang=eng

We are assisting a democratic Government (I know, but no government is perfect - but it is democratically elected) to support itself. There are forces there that wish to disrupt this. Our forces are involved in as many development projects as 'battles'. It is sad that some members come home under the Flag but the troops know why they are there and what they are doing and most want to be there helping. While some are out trying to keep the hostile forces at bay others are building bridges, schools, water supplies etc.

Don't take my word for it - write the troops, tell them you support them, if not our Government, and ask what they are doing besides 'war'.
Write the Troops

[The Old Fogducker]

OFD - you are right, the parents are the issue, that is the area where the tax dollars can make a difference, by creating employment rather than making grand stand purchases. The government should be the last entity to actually get involved in raising children. However it should create the right circumstances for fostering proper care for the young.

Glad to see you agree that government spending has zero to do with children going to bed hungry.

It all comes down to accepting personal responsibility, and not expecting the government to act like its a combination of a nice fat sow, and your mommy....with an abundance of teats upon which to suckle whenever the world seems to be a little tough.

No amount of government spending ... or as some like to spoof by saying .... "government investment" will cure the problem when some parents would rather spend 10 bucks on a lotto ticket, smokes, car gas, or ... heaven forbid and say it isn't so ... booze... instead of supper for the kids.

OFD

[joco]

Bushav8tor - Doesn't matter how the government is wrapping it, as long as there is a combat mission, that is war. Trying to help the locals in various ways that is another mission (a much better mission mind you). You know.... we did not hear yet about a Canadian soldier being injured because of falling of the scaffold, or misuse of a construction tool.... it is always IDEs, RPG, coming under fire, etc.

I guess we have to agree to diasgree on the matter.

[crazy_aviator]

Doesnt anyone here have at least the foggiest idea of the monumental waste of taxpayers $$$ going out in utterly wasteful means ,,,like the gun law etc etc ? whats a few billion here or there ,,,,, almost NOTHING,,,,,, welcome to the third world folks !!!

[2.5milefinal]

"However it should create the right circumstances for fostering proper care for the young."
What bunch of feel good crap.
If you do not have the money and the know-how to have kids... maybe you should not have kids in the first place.
I say spend MORE on the CAF.
I for one wish there was a SAR base in every major city of this country.Think of the jobs that would create.

[ktcanuck]

17 New C130J Super Hercules for the military. After years of Liberal neglect finally the military is getting what they need, first the C17s now these -

If Rick Hillier's book is to be believed, and I think I will believe that rather than Bushav8er given the two choices, Paul Martin was the last big CF supporter and had approved the purchase of those C17s. The delay to their purchase has been caused by an election and a Tory Government.

For the record I have no axe to grind with any political party - I am confident in my belief that they are all pretty much ineffective.

[Nark]

SAR in a major city would be a bigger waste of taxpayer dollars than the gun control.

The last5 plane crashes, snowmobile flips, or cars running off the road within in 50 miles of any major city were spotted, cared for and transported well before the chain of command could lift their finger. This is why you pay taxes, to support the fire and police departments, and local SAR, not military.

SAR is effective when it's no where near a major population. Churchill, MB. La Ronge, SK etc...

For those of you who think the military is/should be for peace keeping missions and not combat, I hope you never see the inside of a cockpit. That's pretty much a straight comparison when you have an all volunteer force during an active war.

[denkauto]

OFD- It is clear you are and island, you need no man, nor do you need any government to help you out. Those who do require help or fall on hard times, or perhaps expect certain things out of elected representatives are weak and have no place on your island. Judge a society by how it treats its most needy members. IMHO YOU ARE A SHEEP, you have clearly been brainwashed into thinking that each of us stand alone and if you don't make the grade then get out of the way, I feel sorry for you. You are the wise one, there is no possible way that the very things you support so much just tend to make the select few at the top even richer and more powerful while doing nothing for you. Carry on...

[2.5milefinal]

SAR in a major city would be a bigger waste of taxpayer dollars than the gun control.

Okay Nark, I can see your point. How about just MORE and newer equipment.
Just a little tired of the do-gooders thinking we do not need to up-grade the Military (CAF) because it might cost money.

[Cat Driver]

You are the wise one, there is no possible way that the very things you support so much just tend to make the select few at the top even richer and more powerful while doing nothing for you. Carry on...

There is still hope for the old dog,,,er,,fog ducker denkauto I have been gently exposing him to the writings of Karl Marks, the record of Mao and the actions of Obama.

He will hopefully come around to the socialistic belief flock and he will eventually be your friend.

[mcrit]

It's funny that SAR came up in this thread.....that is the next major purchase that the Forces have to hash out.

[Northern Skies]

HEy Bushy,

You ever stop to think what's being neglected to pay for those a/c?

Just say'in

I quote the post that sparked the debate. As always, the debate heats up and drags on until everyone is tired of each other. There is nothing wrong with anyone's ideas here.

The flaw, however, is that the problem does not lie primarily in legislature. It lies in the bureaucracy. The amount of waste involved in most programs is absolutely astonishing... it's criminal. I've seen a TC citation idle on the ramp for half an hour while the pair in the cockpit had a pleasant conversation. Do you think they could get away with that at an air service? The same happens in bureaucratic departments across the spectrum of government. If they operated with the tiniest shred of efficiency, stopped pandering to miniscule special interests, and accounted that each cheque was spent on its intended use, we would be able to afford everything you all asked for at a lower rate of tax than what is currently extorted from you.

That's not to say that many of the programs should exist in the first place. Some people want the government to babysit them and make them feel safe from all the unrealistic things which they fear. People should be more free to be able to look after themselves, while also being more responsible to look after themselves.

So we have a little money left over after a lot of waste. We get robbed with every breath we take. Instead of fighting over the little that is left over, why don't we ask why we can't get what we pay for, and why we have to pay so much in the first place??

[niss]

So which cheque book did Mr. Harper bring when he paid for these?

Is the big 'C' for Canada?