• Night Flying.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:53 pm**

I just got my night rating back in Novemeber and I was wondering if any of you had any hints, tips, or pointers for night flying. I plan to do a fair amount of it and like anything in aviation you can never know enough

. Thanks,
Edelweiss air.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:57 pm**

Way to go! Night flying can be great.

I see guys who relax about night VFR -- KNOW your charts for the TERRAIN. There have been some impressive accident reports in the States where experienced pilots flew straight and level right into mountains, at cruise speed. These have even included freight guys, on a regular run.

Pretty amazing, when you really think about it... so, know what you're flying into.

Congrats, and have fun.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:08 pm**

Unless you have already, plan a trip up north with an instructor (or someone with experience flying night in 'remote' areas). The difference between the GTA and YKF area where you've conducted most of your night flights (my assumption) and lets say YYB - YTS will be and eye opener.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:17 pm**

ETOPS wrote:Unless you have already, plan a trip up north with an instructor (or someone with experience flying night in 'remote' areas). The difference between the GTA and YKF area where you've conducted most of your night flights (my assumption) and lets say YYB - YTS will be and eye opener.

Along with that advice, read up on the "black hole effect". I've seen another experienced pilot have issues with it and experienced it myself, taking off out of Sacremento California of all places.

If you know what it is, it's easily dealt with; if it catches you off guard, it's been known to be fatal.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:53 pm**

Night flying can be lots of fun and it can be very dangerous, you just need to go on every flight prepared. Make sure you take an extra careful look at weather (all of it, not just metars, tafs and GFA's. IR SAT and RADAR are wonderful!), its not so easy to see just where it is. Check the NOTAMs. It will really suck if you were using an obstruction tower as a checkpoint, and didn't look at the NOTAMs to see if it was U/S. Know your route, airports to the point that you don't have to reference stuff. If you can, talk to other pilots who've been on the route or to specific airports, ask them to see if there's anything to watch out for, or for hints, tips. Check the CFS to see if you need to provide prior notice to have the lights armed, some a/d's are that way (same thing for fuel). Take extra gear (hats, gloves, mitts, etc) in case you get a flat tire, aircraft issues, weather, whatever causes you to have an unplanned stop. Remember that it's night and a lot of services won't be available, or you'll have to wait a while for them. Make sure you've got a reliable flashlight (or two) and extra batteries.

Overall, be prepared, though that should go without saying, and you will have some great flying.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:56 pm**

Here are some comments that are merely my opinion, but at least consider them.

First and foremost, never forget that night vfr in a single engine aircraft is not just like daytime vfr only a bit darker. It has quite a few more inherent risks (e.g. many illusions, difficult depth perception, poor horizons, inability to see clearly in forced landing, difficulty recognizing deteriorating weather/visibility, etc, etc) and should NEVER be taken lightly. The dangers that arise due to the lack of light become more pronounced the darker it gets. Plan to fly when there is as close to a full-moon and no overcast as possible.

You're likely only flying at night to build the 25 hours night XC you need for your ATPL - so don't push your luck. Be selective about when and where you fly at night. There is no urgency to get these flights in, so pick the best nights you can. Tilt the odds in your favour by sticking to well populated areas and clear moonlit nights.

I don't want to start an argument, but I think a night flight, single engine into a remote area is the exact wrong thing to do. If anything goes wrong, you're in a world of trouble. If your career is typical of most pilots in Canada, you will get to experience the remote areas later when you have an IFR rating and are in a twin engine aircraft - a much safer situation.

I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure you do it as safely as possible.

Here's a link to an article that you may find worth reading - AVweb - Night Flying Safety

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:03 pm**

5x5, one thing that I try to do if flying single night vfr in more remote areas is to keep my track along a main road whereever possible. You may not be able to land on it should you have to do a forced landing, but your chances of rescue are much greater. Granted, I do agree with much of what you are saying.

Here's a question for all. What would you do if you had a forced approach at night? I know what I'd do, but I'm curious to see what other people think.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:31 pm**

5x5 wrote: I don't want to start an argument, but I think a night flight, single engine into a remote area is the exact wrong thing to do.

Yeah, I was waiting for that.

hairdo wrote:Here's a question for all. What would you do if you had a forced approach at night?

In a remote area and without passengers: Lakes!

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:42 pm**

hairdo wrote:
Here's a question for all. What would you do if you had a forced approach at night? I know what I'd do, but I'm curious to see what other people think.

Turn the landing light on; if you don't like what you see, turn it back off.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:26 pm**

I've always tried to keep gliding distance to a decent road with at least some traffic. I picture my approach being aimed at someone's tail lights and landing behind them.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:41 pm**

hairdo wrote:Here's a question for all. What would you do if you had a forced approach at night?

It depends a bit on what your choices are, but in general I'm going to want to set up a glide not for the traditional "best glide" airspeed which gives you the most distance, but rather the lowest rate of descent. I want to hit the ground as gently as possible. Since I'm not sure what exactly I'm going to impact, I want to do it softly.

This is obtained typically by a lower airspeed than best glide - go out to a practice area in the plane you're going to be flying and experiment a bit to see. (An added side benefit of a lower airspeed is less forward moving energy to dissipate on impact.)

As for lakes, if it's winter and they're frozen, absolutely - no trees and very few obstacles. Just make sure you land as slowly and nose high as possible to avoid being flipped when you hit if there is deep snow.

In the summer, lakes are bad news. Even if you ditch successfully and don't drown, you will be wet and cold (and perhaps exhausted if you have to swim far) by the time you're on shore. At night, even in the summer it is cool and you run the very real risk of hypothermia. The most basic thing you need for survival, and in the scenario of remote night time it could be a long wait, is warmth. Lose body heat and you can die in a few short hours, way before you starve or thirst to death.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:45 pm**

Why does TC forbid the carrying of passengers at night in piston single engine aircraft?

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:17 am**

Cat Driver wrote:Why does TC forbid the carrying of passengers at night in piston single engine aircraft?

They don't once someone has their night rating; it's only during solo training that it's verboten.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:38 am**

shitdisturber wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:Why does TC forbid the carrying of passengers at night in piston single engine aircraft?
They don't once someone has their night rating; it's only during solo training that it's verboten.

This always confused me. Is it solo for training you are ok (ie. with an instructors blessing/supervision) or is it solo period (with just PPL).

I figured it is the first one but every day I read the cars I interpret it differently.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:37 am**

niss wrote:
shitdisturber wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:Why does TC forbid the carrying of passengers at night in piston single engine aircraft?
They don't once someone has their night rating; it's only during solo training that it's verboten.
This always confused me. Is it solo for training you are ok (ie. with an instructors blessing/supervision) or is it solo period (with just PPL).

I figured it is the first one but every day I read the cars I interpret it differently.

When training for your night rating you may not carry passengers. After you have completed your night rating you may carry passengers at night provided you are current.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:41 am**

mathewc wrote: When training for your night rating you may not carry passengers. After you have completed your night rating you may carry passengers at night provided you are current.

Right, but can you fly solo at night as a PPL without a night rating?

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:02 am**

niss wrote:
mathewc wrote: When training for your night rating you may not carry passengers. After you have completed your night rating you may carry passengers at night provided you are current.
Right, but can you fly solo at night as a PPL without a night rating?

If you are training towards one. Otherwise, no.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:04 am**

When training for your night rating you may not carry passengers. After you have completed your night rating you may carry passengers at night provided you are current.

Sorry I was not specific enough......

Why is it that TC will not let commercial charter companies fly passengers in single engine piston powered airplanes at night?

Can you get a TC inspector to do a check ride in a single engine training airplane at night?

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:42 am**

Cat Driver wrote: Can you get a TC inspector to do a check ride in a single engine training airplane at night?

There are several reasons.

First, you don't need a check ride for a night rating. Second, you can't easily do all the required tasks at night (forced approach, precautionary, cross country, etc), third, it takes you outside of the hours of 9 to 5.

* * *

For my dual night cross-country, we flew from Penticton to Kamloops across the Thompson Plateau. We had no GPS, only heading, map, clock, and the ever important altimeter. I've never seen anything so black in my life and was pretty much relegated to instrument scans. It seemed like an eternity before we saw the lights of Kamloops. The remainder of the trip to Salmon Arm, Kelowna, and back to Penticton was pretty anti-climactic.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:42 pm**

Cat Driver wrote:
When training for your night rating you may not carry passengers. After you have completed your night rating you may carry passengers at night provided you are current.
Sorry I was not specific enough......
Why is it that TC will not let commercial charter companies fly passengers in single engine piston powered airplanes at night?
Can you get a TC inspector to do a check ride in a single engine training airplane at night?

My understanding was it was an issue of MTBF on the engines. If you could find a piston that had a "certified" (god knows what that means) MTBF of like 200000hrs then its all gusto. The only problem is no such engine exists (or if it does its not "certified")
That being said does the PT6 still hold that crown?

Edit:
Back to the OP,
Do an instrument rating; and be aware of those little dials in front of you... Although iv almost killed my self a number of times I remember one specific event when I was in the 80hr mark. Departing at ~2am from ZBB on a runway 12 (goes out over ocean)

It was a dark night, and almost no lights could be seen the direction I was heading, on the climb out I was passing ~1000' and started fucking around doing something (charts, radios, etc) next time I look at the Alt im at 50'........

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:33 pm**

Find an old aviator of good reputation, buy him a beer and ask him to tell you some of his experiences...
I do this.
When I went to Dawson City one March in a Maule I took advice from those who know and I heeded it.

So a couple of weeks ago I was in the Smelly Socks pub on a Wednesday night.

There I was told the story of one night over the mountains in a Turbine Beaver when that most reliable of engines failed (PT6, HP fuel pump failure).
The pilot selected a minimum safe speed descent and waited to hit the trees.
He was surprised when he saw a leaf floating in the water picked out by the landing light.
It was too late... the Beaver hit hard and nosed over.
Reaching out he found the rudder pedals

but made his way through the open door left by his passenger.
He got out, swam to shore, climbed out of the water to begin to get cold. The mud was warmer so he went back and lay in the mud until he was rescued at daybreak.
That morning they found the passenger drowned in the back of the cabin...

Such experiences, while sobering, are something to learn from.
While we all learn from accident reports, there's nothing like word of mouth and facial expression.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:36 pm**

It was a dark night, and almost no lights could be seen the direction I was heading, on the climb out I was passing ~1000' and started fucking around doing something (charts, radios, etc) next time I look at the Alt im at 50'........

FIFTY feet?

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:02 pm**

ETOPS wrote:In a remote area and without passengers: Lakes!

How do you know it's a lake and not trees at night?

MichaelP wrote:...Turbine Beaver when that most reliable of engines failed...

CARS 723.22 1(a) states only factory built, turbine-powered aeroplanes are permitted.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Beavers retrofitted with a turbine engine? Sobering story though...

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:37 pm**

Dagwood wrote:
ETOPS wrote:In a remote area and without passengers: Lakes!
How do you know it's a lake and not trees at night?
MichaelP wrote:...Turbine Beaver when that most reliable of engines failed...
CARS 723.22 1(a) states only factory built, turbine-powered aeroplanes are permitted.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Beavers retrofitted with a turbine engine? Sobering story though...

There were a handful of factory built Turbine Beavers, but I don't know if any have been approved for Night VFR. Especially in light of the additional requirements of 723.22...

(2) Aeroplane Equipment Requirements

(a) two attitude indicators which are powered separately and independently from each other;

(b) two independent power generating sources, either of which is capable of sustaining essential flight instruments and electrical equipment;

(c) an auto-ignition system, or alternatively, the Company Operations Manual must specify that continuous ignition must be selected "ON" for take-off, landing and flight in heavy precipitation;

(d) a chip detector system to warn the pilot of excessive ferrous material in the entire engine lubrication system in all regimes of flight;
(amended 2003/06/01; previous version)

(e) a radar altimeter;

(f) a manual throttle which bypasses the governing section of the fuel control unit and permits continued unrestricted operation of the engine in the event of a fuel control unit failure;

(g) sufficient supplemental oxygen to allow for an optimal glide profile during an engine out let-down from 25,000 feet until a cabin altitude of 13,000 feet;
(amended 2003/06/01; no previous version)

(h) an electronic means of rapidly determining and navigating to the nearest suitable aerodrome for an emergency landing; and
(amended 2003/06/01; no previous version)

(i) sufficient emergency electrical supply to power essential electrical systems, including auto pilot flight instruments and navigation systems, following engine failure throughout the entirety of a descent at optimal glide speed and configuration from the aeroplane’s operating level to mean sea level.
(amended 2003/06/01; no previous version)

Maybe it was a ferry flight or private operator...

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:41 pm**

metal wrote:
It was a dark night, and almost no lights could be seen the direction I was heading, on the climb out I was passing ~1000' and started fucking around doing something (charts, radios, etc) next time I look at the Alt im at 50'........
FIFTY feet?

Yes,
Five Zero......

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