It would be funny if it was not so serious.Pissing off your banker(or those who hold most of your debt) is not smart.But pissing off your intelligence services is not smart either.
Would someone please reprogramme the teleprompter before WW3 starts
Obama opens another front on Formosa
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Obama opens another front on Formosa
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... 451&page=3
It would be funny if it was not so serious.Pissing off your banker(or those who hold most of your debt) is not smart.But pissing off your intelligence services is not smart either.
Would someone please reprogramme the teleprompter before WW3 starts
It would be funny if it was not so serious.Pissing off your banker(or those who hold most of your debt) is not smart.But pissing off your intelligence services is not smart either.
Would someone please reprogramme the teleprompter before WW3 starts
-
sky's the limit
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 4614
- Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:38 am
- Location: Now where's the starter button on this thing???
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
China freezes US military exchanges
Beijing has suspended military exchanges with the US and threatened sanctions over Washington's plan to sell arms to Taiwan, according to the official Xinhua news agency.
The decision was announced on Saturday, just hours after China cautioned that the US's decision to sell $6.4bn worth of weapons to Taiwan would cause "serious damage" to relations and co-operation between the two nations.
He Yafei, the Chinese vice-foreign minister, told Jon Huntsman, the US ambassador to China, that the arms deal could jeopardise bonds with Washington.
The sale "constitutes a gross intervention into China's internal affairs, seriously endangers China's national security and harms China's peaceful reunification efforts", Wang Baodong, a spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington, quoted He as saying.
"The US plan will definitely undermine China-US relations and bring about serious negative impact on exchange and co-operation in major areas between the two countries."
Baodong said China "strongly urges the US side to fully recognise the gravity of the issue, revoke the erroneous decision on arms sales to Taiwan and stop selling any weapons to Taiwan."
'Defensive weapons'
However, Laura Tischler, a US state department spokesman, said: "This is a clear demonstration of the commitment that this administration has to provide Taiwan the defensive weapons it needs and as provided for in the Taiwan Relations Act."
She said that the arms deal would contribute to "maintaining security and stability across the Taiwan Strait".
"...when you look at relations between and Washington and Beijing, there are definitely some more hiccups on the horizon"
Christian Ford,
Beijing bureau chief for
Christian Science Monitor
Taiwan welcomed the US decision, with Ma Ying-jeou, the country's president, saying the deal would help the island further develop ties with China.
"It will let Taiwan feel more confident and secure so we can have more interactions with China," he was quoted by Taiwan's Central News Agency as saying.
The developments come against a backdrop of steadily improving relations between the two countries.
Speaking to Al Jazeera on Saturday, Christian Ford, Beijing bureau chief for the US newspaper Christian Science Monitor, said that while tensions between China and the US have been rising, those between China and Taiwan have been abating in recent months.
"The two sides have been discussing trade and investment issues ... there are now many more flights from Beijing to Taiwan," he said.
"The actual situation in the streets is not tense. In fact, it's a great deal less tense than a couple of years ago.
"But when you look at relations between and Washington and Beijing, there are definitely some more hiccups on the horizon."
Ford mentioned an expected meeting between Barack Obama, the US president, the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader, as a case in point.
"When that happens, Beijing is bound to react," he said.
Renegade province
Beijing regards Taiwan as a renegade province and has vowed to bring the island eventually back under mainland rule, by force if necessary.
The US government, on the other hand, is bound by the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act, which obliges Washington to ensure the island is capable of responding to Chinese threats, and to sell defensive weapons to it.
The US announced it was selling $6.4bn worth of military hardware to Taiwan [Reuters]
Wang, the Chinese embassy spokesman, said that the weapons deal violated the 1982 communique between China and the US, which said the arms sales to Taiwan "will not exceed, in qualitative or in quantitative terms," the level in the years before that.
The Obama administration told the US Congress on Friday of the proposed sales, which include Black Hawk helicopters, Patriot "Advanced Capability-3" anti-missile missiles and two refurbished Osprey-class mine-hunting ships.
Philip Crowley, a state department spokesman, said that the arms sales were consistent with the three key communiques between the United States and China when they normalised relations.
However, Yue Xiaoyong, China's ambassador to Qatar, told Al Jazeera that the arms sales were "a clear violation of the three joint communiques".
"It's a clear violation of China's sovereignty and territorial integrity," he said.
In 2008, China suspended most military dialogue with Washington after the administration of George Bush, the former president, approved a $6.5bn arms package to Taiwan that included guided missiles and attack helicopters.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
China/Russia are the new worlds superpowers. The US is a has been country. Too much debt, military tied up fighting pointless wars, an estimated 20 million illegal mexicans putting a strain on social services........
China is just taunting the US at this point, but down the road it could get ugly.
China is just taunting the US at this point, but down the road it could get ugly.
DEI = Didn’t Earn It
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
Don't worry, our current president will just roll over.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
Sounds like the Russians circa 1992. It's amazing what a little hardship will do to straighten around a group of people.Inverted2 wrote: The US is a has been country. Too much debt, military tied up fighting pointless wars.....
____________________________________
I'm just two girls short of a threesome.
I'm just two girls short of a threesome.
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Jastapilot
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Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
The russians are 'straightened out'? 
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iflyforpie
- Top Poster
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Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
China may be an economic superpower, but not a military one.
Sure if you try and march north of the Yalu in Korea, or start making noises in country about Free Tibet, they are powerful. Or if they are threatened with WMD, they can answer back with their own deadly fireworks display. But they can't even mount an expeditionary force to capture their own island! The only aircraft carrier the Chinese have is a museum and even there the US has them outnumbered!
China won the political war years ago by taking Taiwan's seat on the UN Security Council, and is winning the economic war with their huge trade surplus and by holding all those US T-Bills. They have little to gain and lots to lose if they sever ties with the US (you don't really want to devalue you own investment, do you?). They are making noise to save face and mitigate damage, as they've done for decades.
There is nothing here to see folks, move along.
Sure if you try and march north of the Yalu in Korea, or start making noises in country about Free Tibet, they are powerful. Or if they are threatened with WMD, they can answer back with their own deadly fireworks display. But they can't even mount an expeditionary force to capture their own island! The only aircraft carrier the Chinese have is a museum and even there the US has them outnumbered!
China won the political war years ago by taking Taiwan's seat on the UN Security Council, and is winning the economic war with their huge trade surplus and by holding all those US T-Bills. They have little to gain and lots to lose if they sever ties with the US (you don't really want to devalue you own investment, do you?). They are making noise to save face and mitigate damage, as they've done for decades.
There is nothing here to see folks, move along.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
It seems we live in interesting times
February/March 2010 - CER BULLETIN, ISSUE 70
How should Europe respond to China's strident rise?
by Charles Grant
Until very recently, many western politicians, bankers and business people were broadly optimistic about the rise of China. They assumed that as China became more developed it would become more western. As it integrated into the global economy it would play a constructive role in multilateral institutions, help western governments sort out key foreign policy challenges and permit a more open society. China's leaders seemed to understand that the economic development of their country required friendly relations with the US and other major powers.
The EU's leaders shared this optimism. But over the past year China's behaviour has changed. Relatively hard-line and nationalist elements in the leadership appear to have sidelined those with liberal and internationalist instincts. This shift is spurring the EU's governments and institutions to reappraise their China strategies.
China's foreign policy has become more assertive. Its vocal claims to the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh have upset India's leaders. It has become less helpful to the West on the Iranian nuclear problem. It threatens the commercial interests of EU countries whose leaders meet the Dalai Lama in an official setting. Western governments have suffered increasingly powerful cyber-attacks that have been traced to mainland China. And at the Copenhagen climate change conference, China worked hard behind the scenes to scupper the kind of deal that many western countries (and poor nations) wanted.
China's political system has become more repressive. Internet censorship is tighter (prompting Google to say that it may leave China). In December Liu Xiaobo was sentenced to 11 years in prison for organising a pro-democracy petition. Moves to introduce greater democracy into local government and the Communist Party have faltered.
China's economic policies have become more nationalist. Many foreign investors in China complain about being excluded from key markets and suffering from all sorts of discrimination. China's intervention to prevent its currency rising, designed to boost exports, is fuelling protectionist pressure in many continents.
Three factors may explain this increasingly hard line:
★ China has come through the global recession better than any other large country, growing by 9 per cent in 2009. Its leaders view the western economic model as discredited. They are cocky about their success, and given that the West seems weaker they think they can assert China's interests more forcefully.
★ Yet China's leaders feel insecure. The recent unrest in Tibet and Xinjiang caught them by surprise. Rapid economic growth and urbanisation are creating huge social tensions. Endemic corruption makes local party bureaucrats unpopular. The booming housing market – fuelled by the government selling land to property speculators – means that many young middle class people cannot afford to buy flats. Few Chinese people want western-style democracy, but the leaders know their legitimacy rests on thin foundations. Hence their reluctance to allow a more open society.
★ The current leadership, led by Hu Jintao and Wen Xiabao, is due to hand over to the 'fifth generation' of leaders in 2012. There is much manoeuvring for position. Some key figures seem to be pushing a nationalist line in order to boost their support among party cadres. In China, as in most countries, nationalist policies can be popular.
American attitudes to China are palpably hardening. At some point this year the US may declare China to be a 'currency manipulator' and then apply protectionist measures. And even in the EU – which finds it so hard to get tough with anyone – governments are rethinking their China policies. What line should the EU adopt?
First, European leaders need to remind themselves of the obvious point that if they stand together they will have more clout. As an ultra-realist power, China respects strength. Too often, European states – and especially Britain, France and Germany – have sought to cultivate their own special relationships with Beijing, viewing each other as competitors. The Europeans need to agree on a single set of messages for China, so that it cannot play a game of divide and rule. And sometimes the Europeans should work with the Americans, who agree with them on issues like market access and human rights, in order to increase their leverage.
Second, the Europeans should be more willing to criticise China for reneging on commitments it has signed up to. China is in breach of some World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules and the EU should be prepared to take China before WTO disciplinary panels more often. It should also scold China for failing to ratify the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights. And rather than merely lecturing the Chinese government on human rights, the Europeans should point out that it often breaches its own constitution and laws when acting against Chinese citizens. The Europeans have learned that when they treat China deferentially they achieve very little.
Third, the Europeans should continue to engage China. But they should abandon the fiction of a 'strategic partnership', which cannot be meaningful when the values of the two sides are so different. The number of summits, 'executive to executive' meetings and 'high-level mechanisms' between the EU and China should be cut. Future summits should focus on a small number of issues on which China and the EU have mutual interests but conflicting views: the preservation of an open global trading system, China's mercantilist currency policy and climate change. If China ignores European views on these issues, the EU is less likely to keep its markets open and more likely to discourage some of the technology transfers that China wants (China's leaders say the Europeans currently transfer more useful technology than the Americans).
China's leaders may have miscalculated by underestimating the impact of their harder line on Washington and European capitals. Undoubtedly, some of them stand by the premise of the 'peaceful rise' slogan – that China's economic development requires a degree of modesty in foreign policy and good relations with the West. When the most senior leaders see the negative impact of their tougher approach, they may choose to change course. But if they maintain the hard line for a prolonged period, protectionism will flourish and some powerful countries will start working together to contain China. Those outcomes would be bad for China.
Charles Grant is director of the Centre for European Reform.
Centre for European Reform © CER 2010
February/March 2010 - CER BULLETIN, ISSUE 70
How should Europe respond to China's strident rise?
by Charles Grant
Until very recently, many western politicians, bankers and business people were broadly optimistic about the rise of China. They assumed that as China became more developed it would become more western. As it integrated into the global economy it would play a constructive role in multilateral institutions, help western governments sort out key foreign policy challenges and permit a more open society. China's leaders seemed to understand that the economic development of their country required friendly relations with the US and other major powers.
The EU's leaders shared this optimism. But over the past year China's behaviour has changed. Relatively hard-line and nationalist elements in the leadership appear to have sidelined those with liberal and internationalist instincts. This shift is spurring the EU's governments and institutions to reappraise their China strategies.
China's foreign policy has become more assertive. Its vocal claims to the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh have upset India's leaders. It has become less helpful to the West on the Iranian nuclear problem. It threatens the commercial interests of EU countries whose leaders meet the Dalai Lama in an official setting. Western governments have suffered increasingly powerful cyber-attacks that have been traced to mainland China. And at the Copenhagen climate change conference, China worked hard behind the scenes to scupper the kind of deal that many western countries (and poor nations) wanted.
China's political system has become more repressive. Internet censorship is tighter (prompting Google to say that it may leave China). In December Liu Xiaobo was sentenced to 11 years in prison for organising a pro-democracy petition. Moves to introduce greater democracy into local government and the Communist Party have faltered.
China's economic policies have become more nationalist. Many foreign investors in China complain about being excluded from key markets and suffering from all sorts of discrimination. China's intervention to prevent its currency rising, designed to boost exports, is fuelling protectionist pressure in many continents.
Three factors may explain this increasingly hard line:
★ China has come through the global recession better than any other large country, growing by 9 per cent in 2009. Its leaders view the western economic model as discredited. They are cocky about their success, and given that the West seems weaker they think they can assert China's interests more forcefully.
★ Yet China's leaders feel insecure. The recent unrest in Tibet and Xinjiang caught them by surprise. Rapid economic growth and urbanisation are creating huge social tensions. Endemic corruption makes local party bureaucrats unpopular. The booming housing market – fuelled by the government selling land to property speculators – means that many young middle class people cannot afford to buy flats. Few Chinese people want western-style democracy, but the leaders know their legitimacy rests on thin foundations. Hence their reluctance to allow a more open society.
★ The current leadership, led by Hu Jintao and Wen Xiabao, is due to hand over to the 'fifth generation' of leaders in 2012. There is much manoeuvring for position. Some key figures seem to be pushing a nationalist line in order to boost their support among party cadres. In China, as in most countries, nationalist policies can be popular.
American attitudes to China are palpably hardening. At some point this year the US may declare China to be a 'currency manipulator' and then apply protectionist measures. And even in the EU – which finds it so hard to get tough with anyone – governments are rethinking their China policies. What line should the EU adopt?
First, European leaders need to remind themselves of the obvious point that if they stand together they will have more clout. As an ultra-realist power, China respects strength. Too often, European states – and especially Britain, France and Germany – have sought to cultivate their own special relationships with Beijing, viewing each other as competitors. The Europeans need to agree on a single set of messages for China, so that it cannot play a game of divide and rule. And sometimes the Europeans should work with the Americans, who agree with them on issues like market access and human rights, in order to increase their leverage.
Second, the Europeans should be more willing to criticise China for reneging on commitments it has signed up to. China is in breach of some World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules and the EU should be prepared to take China before WTO disciplinary panels more often. It should also scold China for failing to ratify the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights. And rather than merely lecturing the Chinese government on human rights, the Europeans should point out that it often breaches its own constitution and laws when acting against Chinese citizens. The Europeans have learned that when they treat China deferentially they achieve very little.
Third, the Europeans should continue to engage China. But they should abandon the fiction of a 'strategic partnership', which cannot be meaningful when the values of the two sides are so different. The number of summits, 'executive to executive' meetings and 'high-level mechanisms' between the EU and China should be cut. Future summits should focus on a small number of issues on which China and the EU have mutual interests but conflicting views: the preservation of an open global trading system, China's mercantilist currency policy and climate change. If China ignores European views on these issues, the EU is less likely to keep its markets open and more likely to discourage some of the technology transfers that China wants (China's leaders say the Europeans currently transfer more useful technology than the Americans).
China's leaders may have miscalculated by underestimating the impact of their harder line on Washington and European capitals. Undoubtedly, some of them stand by the premise of the 'peaceful rise' slogan – that China's economic development requires a degree of modesty in foreign policy and good relations with the West. When the most senior leaders see the negative impact of their tougher approach, they may choose to change course. But if they maintain the hard line for a prolonged period, protectionism will flourish and some powerful countries will start working together to contain China. Those outcomes would be bad for China.
Charles Grant is director of the Centre for European Reform.
Centre for European Reform © CER 2010
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
My idea is that the US has used one of their trump cards. The business lobby was stronger than the political wisdom. Now China has the advantage, on many fronts. It will just turn up the economical steam, maintain low exchange rates, crank up the exports, without even listening to western protests. They are the winners in that case. 
Success in life is when the cognac that you drink is older than the women you drink it with.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
As far as a duel being played between the US and China, it takes place at very different levels. The US has a military might and presence almost everywhere in the world, which even sometimes creates tensions with the host countries. (Okinawa, Kosovo, etc...)
China is playing a different game, more suited to their asian style. They are nonetheless present on all continents, sponsering, befriending, lobbying, and doing business. They have their sights set very far down the road. Their expected returns on investments are in the 10-20 year range, they do not forge policies around election cycles. This is their strenght, which is more powerful than all military assets of the west. Although they finance the wars in Iraq and Af, they have no boots on the ground here, but...do they ever do good business here!!!
China is playing a different game, more suited to their asian style. They are nonetheless present on all continents, sponsering, befriending, lobbying, and doing business. They have their sights set very far down the road. Their expected returns on investments are in the 10-20 year range, they do not forge policies around election cycles. This is their strenght, which is more powerful than all military assets of the west. Although they finance the wars in Iraq and Af, they have no boots on the ground here, but...do they ever do good business here!!!
Success in life is when the cognac that you drink is older than the women you drink it with.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... e-missile/
So if the third world can afford Nuclear missiles,and a Moon programme ,What does that mean the USA has become ?
fourth world ?
Or maybe if the Indians made an attempt to feed their own people and not rely on food aid they could not afford to threaten their neighbours with nuclear missiles.So much for a socialist state having more compassion for the poor and hungry .
How do the fluffies FEEL about their aid programmes subsidizing the weaponization of space ?
So if the third world can afford Nuclear missiles,and a Moon programme ,What does that mean the USA has become ?
fourth world ?
Or maybe if the Indians made an attempt to feed their own people and not rely on food aid they could not afford to threaten their neighbours with nuclear missiles.So much for a socialist state having more compassion for the poor and hungry .
How do the fluffies FEEL about their aid programmes subsidizing the weaponization of space ?
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ottawa,kan
- Rank 6
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:14 pm
- Location: Kansas
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
Okay explain this to me slowly because obviously I'm stupid. China sends us great stuff. TV's,tires, videogames, furniture, computers, car parts, tools, steel, etc etc etc. We send back worthless little bits of paper. Lots and lots of bits of paper. Dollars I think they call them. China says " hey world we ought to have another reserve currency". Take it up with the U.N. eh? We keep getting great stuff from China and sending them bits of funny green paper. We sell arms to Tiawan....which by rights ought to be a free country like Canada, free but totally dependent on the USA for military support. Just exactly like Canada. So the Chinese get pissed. And they do what? Stop sending us great stuff? Send it to France instead? Send us great stuff but ask for Greek Euros instead of dollars? I dunno. I don't see any bluff here. The Chinese have no choice but to go along, at least in the near term. Say the next 50 years or so.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
The Tea Party will fix China.
Gosh Darn.
Gosh Darn.
bmc
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
Speaking of tea ,it is the fashion in north america to use tea bags while making tea .I have always referred loose leaf tea as you can let it brew without all that paper taste.A nice Darjelling or Black china tea brewed for at least five minutes to let all the flavour come out.
I wonder if she prefers loose leaf or tea bags .Do you think she enjoys the tea bag ?
I wonder if she prefers loose leaf or tea bags .Do you think she enjoys the tea bag ?
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
Stinson4118C wrote:Okay explain this to me slowly because obviously I'm stupid. China sends us great stuff. TV's,tires, videogames, furniture, computers, car parts, tools, steel, etc etc etc. We send back worthless little bits of paper. Lots and lots of bits of paper. Dollars I think they call them. China says " hey world we ought to have another reserve currency". Take it up with the U.N. eh? We keep getting great stuff from China and sending them bits of funny green paper. We sell arms to Tiawan....which by rights ought to be a free country like Canada, free but totally dependent on the USA for military support. Just exactly like Canada. So the Chinese get pissed. And they do what? Stop sending us great stuff? Send it to France instead? Send us great stuff but ask for Greek Euros instead of dollars? I dunno. I don't see any bluff here. The Chinese have no choice but to go along, at least in the near term. Say the next 50 years or so.
GOLD!!!
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2 ... 427005.htm
http://www.montrealgazette.com/canadacom/index.html
Success in life is when the cognac that you drink is older than the women you drink it with.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
What's that saying?
"If you owe the bank $1 million they own you. If you owe the bank $1 Billion you own them."
Having the world owe China so much money is a two edged sword for the Chinese so they can't step wildly out of line. However they are nothing if not patient. Someone said earlier in the thread that they take the long view 10-20 years into the future. Given their history I think 100 years is probably closer to the truth...maybe longer.
"If you owe the bank $1 million they own you. If you owe the bank $1 Billion you own them."
Having the world owe China so much money is a two edged sword for the Chinese so they can't step wildly out of line. However they are nothing if not patient. Someone said earlier in the thread that they take the long view 10-20 years into the future. Given their history I think 100 years is probably closer to the truth...maybe longer.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
I guess you guys would choose Hillary over Sarah?
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ottawa,kan
- Rank 6
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:14 pm
- Location: Kansas
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
DANG Hedley...that's soooo unfair. What's that you always say....I like boobies? Certainly applies to Sarah.
Re: Obama opens another front on Formosa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6u5j7_5iHM
Dang ,Colbert does not hold back attacking women ,He can be so bitchy
Dang ,Colbert does not hold back attacking women ,He can be so bitchy
