Maxi allowable hours and instructing

[overhaulin]

Hi guys,

I'm wondering if instructing hours count towards 703, 704, 705 CAR's maximum allowable hours. I'm thinking of regaining the rating to instruct as a side line. The only thing is that my company does not allow me to fly elsewhere if it affects in anyways my CAR's times.

Thanks guys,

[mcrit]

The way I understand it they do.

700.15 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no air operator shall assign a flight crew member for flight time, and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment, if the flight crew member's total flight time in all flights conducted by the flight crew member will, as a result, exceed...

Key thing to note is that the reg does not specify how you get the hours. If you want to go by the strictest application even time spent pleasure flying counts.

[Tim]

instructing does NOT count towards commercial duty times, as it falls under general aviation. i would suggest calling TC though so you can hear it from the horse's (or donkey's) mouth

[modi13]

instructing does NOT count towards commercial duty times, as it falls under general aviation. i would suggest calling TC though so you can hear it from the horse's (or donkey's) mouth

Indeed it does; any hours you get, even in your own aircraft, count towards the limit. There is no limit to the number of hours you can fly as an instructor, however. It's only relevant if you work for a commercial air operator.

[mcrit]

instructing does NOT count towards commercial duty times, as it falls under general aviation.

Do you have a written reference for that in the CARs somewhere? I'm not trying to pick a scrap with you, but you will find that what one TC guys says may differ from what another one says. If you don't a reference from the CARs or other regs to back you up you can find yourself in a deep hole.

[comspazz]

[quote="modi13"][quote="Tim"]instructing does NOT count towards commercial duty times, as it falls under general aviation. i would suggest calling TC though so you can hear it from the horse's (or donkey's) mouth[/quote]
Indeed it does; any hours you get, even in your own aircraft, count towards the limit. There is no limit to the number of hours you can fly as an instructor, however. It's only relevant if you work for a commercial air operator.[/quote]


Yes modi13 is correct the time counts towards your 1200/year etc. time limits. Additionally flight instructors have no limit to the hours a day they can fly and or duty times. I have seen lots of instructors come to work at 7-8 in the morning and work well into night 10-11 non-stop. I know of a former student who as senior instructor went to work at 7am, worked all day long and then crashed a plane with a student and passenger on board just after midnight on a training flight. You can draw your own conclusions but you can't tell me that fatigue was not the biggest contributor to the accident. It's part of the reason a majority of operators do not want you flying on the side. They want you rested up for your flight for safety reasons, they don't want you flying with John Doe for 2-3 hours and then coming in/or getting called in for a 10-14 hour duty day. They are your primary employer, they don't want your hours maxed out each month because you teach on the side 5-10 hours a week. On a side note when ever I ran a flight school I always tried hard to limit my staff to a 10 hour max duty day, they were scheduled for an 8 hour duty day and they could choose to do the additional 2 if they wanted to.

Flight safety is RULE ONE.

[mbav8r]

The irony is if they paid you enough to live on, you probably wouldn't need to instruct on the side. Any hours logged in an aircraft count towards your 30/60/90's etc...
I used to bounce at one of the local bars to make ends meat. It was a pretty good set up, I would wear my pager and if I was called in(medevac) I would just let the manager know I was leaving. Be carefull with this one though, because it is your responsibility to get proper rest before work even if your second job is not aviation related.

[Hedley]

flight instructors have no limit to the hours a day they can fly and or duty times

IIRC in the USA in the FARs it simply specifies that no flight
instructor shall give more than 8 hours of dual flight instruction
per day, which could actually be a pretty long day if he did
eight flights of 1.0, plus pre-flight and post-flight
briefings on the ground. Too much for me, but maybe I'm
just getting old.

AFAIK in Canada there is no CARs 406/426 limitation on how
many hours an instructor can fly in a day. If you want to instruct
24 hours a day, 365 days a year, I guess you can go for it,
but you have to wonder if the quality of flight instruction
might suffer.

About 15 years ago, I was instructing full time. Man, I
hated doing night ratings in june and july - you'd fly late,
then you'd be up early again the next morning. Rinse, lather
repeat, as it says on the shampoo bottle.

I remember one day, I was so tired doing circuits with
a student, I had to concentrate during the approach
and landing, then I would sorta doze off during the
climbout and downwind, then I would try to get alert
again for the next final.

I've done some pretty stupid things in airplanes, and
that probably ranks up there in the top ten. Again,
you must wonder about the quality of flight instruction
when an instructor is that fatigued.

Other really simple stuff I have learned over the years ...

Don't fly de-hydrated, or hungry. Make sure you have
something to drink and eat, to raise your blood sugar
level. And, if there's another pilot on board, I am a
big fan of catnaps enroute - some people can do it,
some people can't - so that when you arrive at your
destinations, you're sharp for the approach and landing.

I am sure some people will disagree with me, but
it works for me.

[Tim]

instructing does NOT count towards commercial duty times, as it falls under general aviation.

Do you have a written reference for that in the CARs somewhere? I'm not trying to pick a scrap with you, but you will find that what one TC guys says may differ from what another one says. If you don't a reference from the CARs or other regs to back you up you can find yourself in a deep hole.

i don't have a ref, maybe my confusion lies along the lines of what modi13 was talking about

[Invertago]

I'm confused, I thought instructing hours didn't count for anything in the first place

[mbav8r]

There seems to be some confusion, the original poster asked if he could instruct on the side ofhis full time flying job. His employer says only if the time instructing doesn't count towards his CARS restrictions.(as I understand it) Anyhow, here's the standard from CARS, I've highlighted the important word...
DIVISION II - STANDARDS FOR FLIGHT TIME AND FLIGHT DUTY TIME LIMITATIONS AND REST PERIODS
720.15 Flight Time Limitations

The standards for increasing the flight time limitations for flight crew members are:

(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations or with a deHavilland DHC-6 aircraft not conducting a scheduled passenger service or with a helicopter not conducting a scheduled passenger service or heli-logging, for any 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period, the maximum flight time in any aircraft shall not exceed:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;

(b) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

(d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(g) the accumulated 30-consecutive day, 42-consecutive day and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(h) 1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(2) For heli-logging operations, the maximum flight time in all flying shall not exceed:

(a) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days for single-pilot helicopters;

(b) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days for helicopters operated by two pilots; and

(c) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.