Civvy to Military AMEs

[Brice]

Have any of you done it?

I went to the recruiters office today because I've always been interested in doing military service. I'm currently an M1 engineer, getting 46k a year.

The recruiter hinted that I may be given a signing bonus and / or being accepted in at higher rank with my qualifications. A corporal is at the bottom of the aircraft maintenance chain and makes 58k a year with full benefits, and seemingly less responsibility.

Seems like a lot of pros for my situation. Anyone out there who has done it that may have any cons to point out?

[bombardierfixer]

Seems backwards to me Do they guarantee that you would be fixing A/C. Or would you be wrenching on a LAV3 under fire? I dunno what did they say?

[Pat Richard]

Yes, do tell.

I just saw the c17 commercial

Seriously though, if you have some solid info, do divulge.

Private Patty

[billy ray valintine]

i saw the c17 commercial,and at one point the guy says he was going to open a small
engine repair shop. well i went to a local small engine guy back in the summer to get a part
for the carb on the lawnmower.
the part was 10.00 and i gave him 20.00 and when he went to give me my change,he pulled
out a wad of bills that could choke a small pilot! i mean he had about 2 grand there.
so lets see........my own successful business doing something i like or trying to fix a jet engine
with some drill Sargent's size twelve boot in my ass!
tough decision.

brv

[plainfixer]

Brice,
I'm not sure how the Canadian Military AME system is set up. Is the canadian Military AME divided into separate trades like: airframe, power plant, radio, navigation, electrical, sheet metal??
You might find yourself in a situation where there is a defect that cannot be fixed, so under the military system, you must allow the more senior ranked personnel look at the defect and then issue the military version of a MEL deferral.
As a civilian AME you would do all this yourself, and be responsible for this yourself.
In the military an officer would make the decision, and no matter what that decision is, you will not object to it, because your rank is lower than them.
Now don't quote me on this, I'm not sure how the Canadian air force is structured. I come from a british based military structure that only had american aircraft, and was in a commonwealth country.(not the full upper lip version)
So if you think you will be happy to do as you are told, and even if you know what you are being told is not correct, then by all means join up and enjoy it.
You will make many many friends, see many places that are not on the map, participate in activities that are very enjoyable, and also the opposite.
But remember, the military is not there to do civil defence when the river floods. the military is an alternate means of politics. You may find yourself in a situation where u r pointing a weapon at another human being.
The military is not all about war, its also about peace keeping, peace making.
I'd like to go back, but I definatley know that I would clash with the technical decisions made on the day to day AME related tasks.
Olny option would be go back as an officer, but I don't want the knife in the upper left eye.

Do it. Per ardua ad astra!!

Plainfixer

[bigbert]

From what I understand, your rank is your signing authority, and I also seem to remeber watching a DND saftey video where one of the "links" that caused and accident was a lower ranked person was afraid to question a higher ranked person. I have thought about going the DND route but I cant get over the idea of basic training. But yes with your licence you go in with a higher rank and a signing bonus.

[bombardierfixer]

I could use a little "basic training", or at least that what my wife hints too.

[Brice]

Do they guarantee that you would be fixing A/C. Or would you be wrenching on a LAV3

I'd be signing up for AVN TECH, which is the same as an AME. So to answer plainfixer, according to the website they only have 3 aviation maintenance related trades, Avionics, Mechanic and Structures tech. From what I understand the AVN TECHs do everything that a civvy AME does, except for avionics and structural work. And that wont bother me any

@bigbert: Do you have a credible source for the signing bonus and higher rank? The way the recruiter was talking to me it seemed like I'd only get one.

[spf1971]

Do they guarantee that you would be fixing A/C. Or would you be wrenching on a LAV3

I'd be signing up for AVN TECH, which is the same as an AME. So to answer plainfixer, according to the website they only have 3 aviation maintenance related trades, Avionics, Mechanic and Structures tech. From what I understand the AVN TECHs do everything that a civvy AME does, except for avionics and structural work. And that wont bother me any

@bigbert: Do you have a credible source for the signing bonus and higher rank? The way the recruiter was talking to me it seemed like I'd only get one.

You won't get a higher rank, rank is based upon time in, available positions and performance; they may start you at Corporal instead of Private but that is it. There are occasional signing bonuses based on trade strength but I'm not sure if AVN is currently offering them. As for "signing authority" it's not based on rank but based on qualifiations. Generally higher ranked people have higher qualifications so they then have the signing authority but it's not the rank that got them the ability to verify the work.

[acidgambit]

Well, if you go in...you'll start as a coporal no doubt.

Do you have a bachlors degree?? If so you may go take the officers test in the CF once you get in. If you pass...you'll be a lieutenant.

This is my understanding from asking the recruiters and my friends that are in the CF.

My friends were lucky and are able to be with the C-17s. They travel around the world to ally countries and mainten the C17 they are appointed to.

I also know a few ex military guys in Air Canada, they said they loved doing it...but because they were all ready to settle down and spend time with their family that they left. But they would do it all over again if they had the chance.

My 2 cents is....if you're just looking for a career replacement...then nope don't join. But if you're willing to serve the country for at least 10 years and above. You'll freaken love it.

Good luck making your decision.

[AuxBatOn]

Well, if you go in...you'll start as a coporal no doubt.

Do you have a bachlors degree?? If so you may go take the officers test in the CF once you get in. If you pass...you'll be a lieutenant.

That would be second lieutenant. Oh and there is no "officers test". The whole recruitement process is the same regardless of the trade you apply for (minus ROTP applicants).

This alone discredit your whole post. Do you have any experience with the CFs?

The the OP:

If you are serious about it, apply, go through the testings (it's free after all) and see what they offer. No one will be able to tell you exactly what you will get until you get a formal offer from the CF. Ottawa/Borden decide what your credentials will give you in terms of rank/pay and is most of the time on a case-to-case basis. Once you are accepted, you will have a detailed description of what your credentials gave you. Then, you will be able to assess and see if it suits you. Until then, everything said here is pure speculation.

[bigbert]

Corporal is higher then private is it not? And I am decently sure about the bonus as well, I do believe i have a credible source, but as mentioned its all about what YOU get offered, and it doesn't hurt to try and negotiate.

[AuxBatOn]

Corporal is higher then private is it not? And I am decently sure about the bonus as well, I do believe i have a credible source, but as mentioned its all about what YOU get offered, and it doesn't hurt to try and negotiate.

The bonuses come and go. It depends what the CF needs at a certain time. As far as negotiation, I've never seen it being successful with the CFs. If you don't want to do it, they won't make exceptions for you.

Yes Corporal is higher than Private, what's your point?

[Big Pistons Forever]

The Military is hurting for folks in all technical trades is all 3 elements(Army,Navy,and Air Force). The Air Force AME equivalent are the "500" trades ( all miltary trades are identified by a number) and they are definately short of experienced guys/gals. The problem with the CF (Canadian Forces) is the broken recruiting system. The Recruiting office where you go to apply to join the CF will likely be manned by some long in tooth passed over slug just marking time. The chance that the recruiter will actually know anything about aircraft maintainance, and therefore how valuable your skills are to the Air Force, is virtually zero. The critical factor for you is to get the Air Force personnel section to do a PLA (prior learning assesment) on you. This will determine what you allready know and therefore the Air Force will not have to teach you. The more skills/knowledge captured by the PLA the better your employement offer will be. Be prepared to be assertive with the recruiting staff and if you do not like what you are hearing demand to know on what basis your offer of enrollment was determined. The bottom line is the CF is just another employer competeting for employees along with everyone else. Unfortunately many members of the recruiting organization don't get it...

The good news is the CF offers a pretty attactive compensation and benefits package and arguably the best pension package in available in Canada

[conehead]

Brice; I have a close friend who is a Warrant Officer in charge of the Maintenance crew in a tactical fighter squadron in Cold Lake. He tells me they are very, very short on AVN TECH's. Please hurry and join up, we need guys like you. Push the recruiting people for a signing bonus; at one time they offered $5,000 for trained AME to join, and started him at Corporal rank.

[fel]

Have any of you done it?

I went to the recruiters office today because I've always been interested in doing military service. I'm currently an M1 engineer, getting 46k a year.

The recruiter hinted that I may be given a signing bonus and / or being accepted in at higher rank with my qualifications. A corporal is at the bottom of the aircraft maintenance chain and makes 58k a year with full benefits, and seemingly less responsibility.

Seems like a lot of pros for my situation. Anyone out there who has done it that may have any cons to point out?

Hey Brice!
I went this route years ago before bonuses and accelerated rank. The choice to enter the mil from the civ side was without a doubt a smart move!! I entered as an aircraft mechanic, did a occupational transfer to aircrew later in my career and retired 20 years later(with a pension) and now work as a AME again. Saw the world....the good and the bad but pretty much 99% good! Great pay and benefits! Your first year in you get four weeks holidays, five after four years service!! Academic leave and reimbursements! Get bored with your job, no problem, transfer to another...Flight Engineer, Avionics, pilot, SarTech, NDT......
I could continue on and on but suffice to say I enjoyed the CF immensely. Without a doubt times did suck and you could end up in war zones or at sea(or Ottawa!). Boot camp etc were "experiences" that are looked upon now with a chuckle! Just remember, the boot camp staff are not allowed to kill you! Great times!
If you go this route get all the benefits they are offering but make sure they give you the rank of Cpl(twice the pay of Pvte). If you find you do not enjoy the CF you can always get out, you will still have your licence in your back pocket. As far as low responsibility, officers making all the decisions, Sgts putting their boot up your ass, bullshit ....not in my experience.....Mechs are well respected and treated well IMHO.
I have been retired a few years now and things change so my info may not be up to date, but feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to give you the correct info. As Conehead said ...the CF could use some great experienced guys. Goodluck!

[Brice]

Hey guys, thanks for the input. That is exactly my plan fel, to have the license in my pocket for when I get out.

I have a co-worker who is only an apprentice now and is also interested and may follow me in. Although he's sort of afraid of not getting any bonus or accelerated rank treatment because he doesnt have his license...I think its just another qualification to the CF and really it shouldnt matter to them as they have no use for it. As long as he got the same schooling and is experienced with the aircraft we service he should still get some kind of preferential treatment right?

[fel]

Hey guys, thanks for the input. That is exactly my plan fel, to have the license in my pocket for when I get out.

I have a co-worker who is only an apprentice now and is also interested and may follow me in. Although he's sort of afraid of not getting any bonus or accelerated rank treatment because he doesnt have his license...I think its just another qualification to the CF and really it shouldnt matter to them as they have no use for it. As long as he got the same schooling and is experienced with the aircraft we service he should still get some kind of preferential treatment right?

Brice,
As far as what the CF would offer your friend...I would hate to make a guess, it would be up to what the service is offering and looking for. If I was him, I would get my licence before entering the mil...."you always have a plan B"! As for yourself and this would/may apply to your friend as well, try to get posted to a M2 category aircraft...C-130, P-3 etc as long as it has a civilian equivalent as listed in CARs it can be applied to total time for your M2 ticket.
I see you are in St Hubert..have you gone over to the Griffon(Bell 412) unit (438 Sqn??) for a tour? They are usually very happy to entertain questions etc from potential new members, give them a call. You could potentially be posted there as they have regular and reserve force pers.
Cheers!

[Brice]

I went to school in the building where they are based. One of our teachers had us take a tour of their machines for the Helicopter course. I got to talk to a few of the guys working there, but they were mostly avionics techs as far as I could see. I didnt get to talk to them much as I had to follow the class.

Anyhow, I started filling out the paperwork in the enrollment kit the recruiter gave me.

[roncoldlake]

Hey Brice
I am too someone who did 23 years in the Military as a AVN Tech. Started in the old trade as a Aero Engine and was trained as a AVN. I was posted to Cold Lake in 1990 and did not leave. Back then the lib government was in power so cutbacks were the word of the day and so were promotions and posting(transfers to another base). They froze promotions for a min of five years and I couldn't get out of Cold Lake without releasing. Having worked in Civilian Aviation and am in the process of looking to get out of it You will get those bosses in the military that will tell you. You are lucky you have a job or there are 20 guys who would love to be where you are. I can't say I completely enjoyed the Military but would I do it all over again. Yes. If you get in and want to get out without fulfilling your contract you are obligated to finish 6 months prior to release. This does not apply to those who have done their time it still takes them one month. As for boot camp it will give you skills you might not already have and show you what you can do when under pressure in a group. Also those friends you make there will become your best friends for the rest of your life. They guys I went to boot camp with back in 84 I still keep in touch with some of them.
If you are getting in just for the job and job security I suggest you don't do it. There is more to being in the Air force then just the work. you actually have a opportunity to do something for not only your self but for your country. (This may sound like a recruiting commercial but it is something that I believe) There is a possibility that you would be put in harms way. Make sure you understand and are comfortable with that before getting in. Because once in, you cannot flip flop saying things like I don't agree what the government is doing and I won't go. By signing up you agree to do what you are told even if sometimes you do not like what you hear. You do have rights and more so than not, they will respect your decisions but also yes they do have a military prison and yes you are subject to their rules and regulations regarding this. This means you cannot be habitually late even become get yourself in trouble financially. I have worked with a couple of guys from your type of background and if you are at all like them you will succeed quickly. Signing bonuses. Please get this in writing before you sign anything. Don't worry about being a corporal when you get in you will make enough to survive and all those things you normally pay for right now ie Gym membership, Prescription drugs and uniforms are all covered. They have housing for you where ever you go. Access to secondary education is subsidized. I could go on and on about this. But I will tell you what has lately happened to me. After finishing up from the military I joined a start up company and was one of the first mechs to be hired on. I have worked for this company for almost five years and have been recently laid off. I am looking into another career change (Through Action Canada) as there is more opportunity in a different field right not and looks like for a long time to come. The wages offered that field (power engineering)I plan on working in, is going to be double of what I am making now. With a lot less stress. I could go on and by proof reading this it looks like I have. If you or anyone on this site want to talk about this or have questions pls pm me we can talk over the phone and I can tell you in 5 minutes exactly what to expect. Don't worry I am not a bitter person and have lots to say that are great about the military and the people there.
Roncoldlake

[fel]

I went to school in the building where they are based. One of our teachers had us take a tour of their machines for the Helicopter course. I got to talk to a few of the guys working there, but they were mostly avionics techs as far as I could see. I didnt get to talk to them much as I had to follow the class.

Anyhow, I started filling out the paperwork in the enrollment kit the recruiter gave me.

Brice,
I did my 412 Type course at ENA. The unit I was talking about is just down the road. Sounds like you are on the road to joining! AME already, bilingual, I'm guessing, for a person like you if you work hard, have fun and keep out of trouble you can have a great mil gig. For the most part when you come out of St Jean(Boot camp) and training systems it becomes pretty much just like any other job. Have fun and Good luck!
Oh ya, almost forgot....at boot camp, don't call the "DS" (Directing Staff) "Dude", trust me!

[SeptRepair]

Interesting comments and some good information being shared so far. Is the basic training mandatory for everyone regardless of age? I thought people could work for the forces but not have to actually be IN the military. Or are we talking about two separate things here?

[roncoldlake]

Boot camp is manditory for everyone regardless of age. The only exception to the rule is reservists who are transferring to the regular force and even then they are required to have done some sort of basic training. There is no civilian military mix. What you probably are referring to is the airbus crew who are air Canada. This is because aircanada won the contract for heavy maintenance for the military. Also the Vip jets in Ottawa are civilian contracted for maintenance. Other than that it is all military.

[SeptRepair]

So explain what basic training is like. What does it entail?

[Brice]

SeptRepair,

I think the best place to find that info is in the forces website. Also if you know anyone in the forces just ask around.

My parents know someone who was an intructor in the forces and I talked to him for a bit about BT. He told me that they have different criteria for those above 35 years of age, and that the training is not like it was say 20 years ago. The forces now apparently dont focus as much on trying to "break" you and making you into a robotic soldier type, they now go for the "educated" soldier approach. But that doesnt mean that it's not physically demanding. Your health has to be assessed by a doctor before they allow you in anyway.

Fel, yes I am all of those things. I moved around alot as a kid, stayed in a few different provinces and have the advantage of being fully bilingual. I just need to get in shape while my paperwork gets processed