Update - Citation was attempting barrel roll / crashed . . .

[robbreid]

From AP; German air traffic control spokesman Axel Raab says the pilot of the Cessna 550 Citation was given clearance to climb to a higher level after entering German airspace at 8.20 p.m. (1920GMT). However, the pilot never replied and the plane then disappeared from radar screens.
Raab says wreckage has now apparently been found, but officials are still investigating. The plane was southeast of the eastern German city of Dresden when controllers had their last contact with it.

Awaiting further details. Aircraft believed to be en route to Karlstad Sweden to pick up passengers, and originated in Prague, Austria.

Pieces of wreckage have been discovered near the village Schöna (Saxon - Osterzgebirge).

The search in the rugged and rocky forest area near the Czech border was very difficult and almost impossible in the darkness, said a police spokesman.


reported as a OK-ACH a 2005 C550B owner listed as ABS Jets based Prague, Czech Republic
Operator reported by press as Time Air of Prague.
Two crew on board, no passengers. Aircraft destroyed.

[robbreid]

Crew recovered (fatal), aircraft described as 'in pieces', size of crash field not stated.
Aircraft was flying at 8000 meters and had been approved for 10,500 meters but
there was no further response from the aircraft.

[robbreid]

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_005/nn_226422 ... eader.html

CVR has confirmed the pilots were attempting a barrel roll at the time of the accident.

[Big Pistons Forever]

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_005/nn_226422 ... eader.html

CVR has confirmed the pilots were attempting a barrel roll at the time of the accident.

[Siddley Hawker]

Wonder if they were getting test pilot pay?

[Meatservo]

Won't a citation do a barrel roll? Not that I'm planning on trying anytime soon, but why would it crash? You'd have to screw up pretty badly, wouldn't you? I don't know much about it. I've done a couple in planes that ARE approved, but I'm sure I didn't do them very well. I still can't imagine why a plane would crash from one.

[C-FABH]

There was video of a Cessna Citation performing a barrel roll on YouTube for quite some time (unfortunately offline now).

I think this is a mirror of the vid (minus the part showing the face of the Captain):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFmlm8ZDVcM

[Cat Driver]

The entry has a lot to do with the success of the maneuver.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Won't a citation do a barrel roll? I still can't imagine why a plane would crash from one.

Easy. Start rolling with the nose only slightly above the horizon, leave a bit of back stick in and reach the inverted with the nose well below the horizon and the airspeed rapidly increasing and then panic and pull hard on the control wheel..... The tail will fail first closely followed by the more highly loaded wing (bank angle dependant)

[Hedley]

Sigh.

[mcrit]

Won't a citation do a barrel roll? I still can't imagine why a plane would crash from one.

I'm sure it could if Bob Hoover, or someone similar, were at the controls. Just a WAG, but let's say they didn't get the nose high enough on the intial pull, didn't realize it, and then carried on through. Now they are going through a vertical downline in a very slippery jet. Wouldn't be to hard to run into Mach problems at that point. Or, let's say they got the nose to high on the intial pull and stalled it, in a turn. Good way to spin. The long and the short of it is that there are quite a number of ways to mess up a barrel roll, especially in an airplane that is designed to be flown straight and level.

[. ._]

Not that's it's such a great idea, but if you can roll a 707...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws

why can't you roll a citation?

Like I've said before. I don't know squat. I'm a 250 hour wonder.

-istp

[Strega]

Im guessing the pilots of this plane would not be able to competently roll a 150 or cub.....

I have personally been in a lear 25 that has rolled, and its really not a big deal.. if you know how to fly....

I wonder how many ACA ACJ or WJA pilots could roll a 150 properly?

Let this be a lesson we learn from..

My condolences to the families of the deceased....


S

[desksgo]

Czech Aviation Investigator Dominica Pavell has already cited a cockpit disturbance as playing a major causal factor in the accident. "CVR information reveals an outspoken rabbit shouting commands to the crew up to 10 minutes prior to this occurrence"

[jjj]

I've rolled a 150.

In fact, it was a dude from Canadian North that showed me.

Do you have a point to make Strega or are you just being a (insert colorful remarf here)?


JJJ

[Cat Driver]

I've rolled a 150.

Did it have an A before the numbers150?

[Strega]

JJJ

My point is most guys that fly the heavy iron, have the stick and rudder skills of 50 hour PPL when it comes to upset recovery etc....

[Invertago]

My buddy rolled a Jeep, you can roll anything

[mucktuk]

JJJ

My point is most guys that fly the heavy iron, have the stick and rudder skills of 50 hour PPL when it comes to upset recovery etc....

Wow all the guys who fly the big stuff 70-80hrs/month, and do training every 8 months, have no idea how to pull off a "crazy" upset recovery maneuver. They've some how managed to skip that training throughout their entire carriers! Damn, I guess ACA, ACJ, and WJA better beef up their traing syllabus and get Strega to whip everyone in shape!

[Vnwheeee!]

JJJ

My point is most guys that fly the heavy iron, have the stick and rudder skills of 50 hour PPL when it comes to upset recovery etc....

How many pilots of incredibly diverse backgrounds did you just tar with that sweeping generalization?

Higher than you can count to be sure.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you don't feed the troll, maybe he will go away......

[Strega]

Ok,,

Explain to me how this citation crashed killing all aboard?

For all you "heavy" drivers... when was the last time you rolled?

Next time you "heavy" guys (this includes you BFF) fly,, try a half roll left,, then half roll right.......Might humble you....

but then again,,,, you all have your SOPs and BS training (and the big salaries to go along with them---- see the WJA fo takehome pay forum)...

[Strega]

If you don't feed the troll, maybe he will go away......

BFF,,

People are dead becuse of a lack of skill, I call it out.. and you are worried about me the "troll"?

[mucktuk]

Ok,,

Explain to me how this citation crashed killing all aboard?

For all you "heavy" drivers... when was the last time you rolled?

Next time you "heavy" guys (this includes you BFF) fly,, try a half roll left,, then half roll right.......Might humble you....

but then again,,,, you all have your SOPs and BS training (and the big salaries to go along with them---- see the WJA fo takehome pay forum)...

Strega---> Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, nuff said

[Strega]

Mucktuk,,

Can you explain to me how a citation crashed doing a simple excercise such as a roll?