Crew feared pilot would 'ditch'

[sanjet]

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoa ... 70771.html

“The captain had said he had nothing to lose and he was being fired anyway,” the attendant told HSO, before refusing to fly with the pilot.

Court heard from Air Canada lawyers that the pilot was exceptional at his job.

“No one commented negatively about the captain and everyone stood by his ability to do his job,” airline lawyers told Mr. Justice John O’Keefe.

The airline said the incident was sparked by a “conflict between captain and chief steward.”

Great to see an airline defending a pilot, always two sides to a story. Funny though how a court judged a safety of a flight.

[rigpiggy]

WTF Over, the Cabin Cow, was badmouthing the Captain. If they were that upset, they should have gotten off the airplane.

[GARRETT]

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/20 ... 72451.html

TORONTO - A judge has ruled that an Air Canada jet never should have been allowed to take off from Pearson Airport after it became known that the pilot had threatened on a previous flight to "ditch" his passenger-filled plane into the Atlantic Ocean.

Four members of an Air Canada flight crew refused to fly with the unidentified pilot. Another crew was assembled to do their jobs on an Aug. 24, 2008 flight from Pearson to Europe, court documents show.

The Canadian Union of Public Employees, which represents the cabin crew members, went to court to appeal a decision by a Health and Safety Officer, which allowed the flight to take off.

Mr. Justice John O'Keefe sided with the union and ruled the HSO should not have allowed the flight to take off.

Court heard four members of the crew refused to work because a flight attendant had told them that the pilot, on a previous trip, indicated that he was going to "ditch" the aircraft and had "nothing to lose."

"The captain had said he had nothing to lose and he was being fired anyway," the attendant told HSO, before refusing to fly with the pilot.

Court heard from Air Canada lawyers that the pilot was exceptional at his job.

"No one commented negatively about the captain and everyone stood by his ability to do his job," airline lawyers told Mr. Justice John O'Keefe.

The airline said the incident was sparked by a "conflict between captain and chief steward."

"Crew and personal conflicts can arise at any time and we have a conflict resolution process for this type of situation," Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said on Wednesday. "Health and safety is our top priority."

He said the HSO works for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and is independent of his airline and Transport Canada.

Fitzpatrick said the judge's decision means HSOs will have to conduct more thorough investigations, and not render quick decisions, in the future.

[The Old Fogducker]

So how would you like to be Chief Pilot of the YYZ base and have to deal with this sort of stuff?

OFD

[Cat Driver]

At least if the pilot is over 60 you know he/she is a survivor.

[yycflyguy]

Not yet, but coming soon.

[Lost in Saigon]

It says that back in July 08 the Captain and the Incharge flight attendant had a dispute. The dispute was investigated and the Captain was not reprimanded in any way. He was cleared!

Then a month later the same Incharge flight attendant makes up a story, (obviously a lie) tells it to some other flight attendants, and suddenly the Captain is no longer fit for duty and must be removed from the flight?

I don't think so.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/C ... story.html

Aside from the flight attendants, no one else criticized the pilot. They all stood by his ability to do the job, according to the health and safety officer.

Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said Wednesday there is no evidence that the pilot ever threatened to ditch a plane in the Atlantic, as alleged, in July, 2008. An extensive flight report characterized that incident as a "personnel conflict," and made no mention of such a threat.

He suggested the flight attendants who refused to work were "reacting to comments that were never made, as far as we can tell."

Fitzpatrick insisted Wednesday that the safety of the flight was never compromised since there was no credible evidence that the captain had ever issued such a threat. The captain of the plane continues to work for the company.

[aerodude]

Is it me or are Pursers the new captains of the flight these days... The way I've seen them speak to pilots sometimes just sickens me. Not that they don't have a right to speak, but sometimes the flight deck crew has got to put their foot down sometimes. Wonder what would happen if you tell them to shut up and stick to their job location, which is behind the flight deck. Where does the madness end?

[flyinthebug]

WTF Over, the Cabin Cow, was badmouthing the Captain. If they were that upset, they should have gotten off the airplane.

+1!

[flyinthebug]

Is it me or are Pursers the new captains of the flight these days... The way I've seen them speak to pilots sometimes just sickens me. Not that they don't have a right to speak, but sometimes the flight deck crew has got to put their foot down sometimes. Wonder what would happen if you tell them to shut up and stick to their job location, which is behind the flight deck. Where does the madness end?

Its a lack of simple respect. Some of the posters on this forum tell me I preach "respect" too much. A little respect for the flight deck would go alonggg ways. Isnt it sad that our industry has been reduced to F/A`s now running the ship? Are you kidding me? This particular Skipper almost lost his career over a pissed off F/A? If we showed simple respect like we did even 30 years ago... to the guys/gals upfront, this type ofevent would NEVER occur. Case in point.. did you ever hear of this happening at A/C 30 yrs ago? Nope, me either.

Fly safe all.

[yycflyguy]

There was quite the uproar at United when a Sao Paulo to Chicago flight diverted to kick off the In-Charge after a dispute. There was no disciplinary action against the Captain who claimed the In-Charge had tampered with crew meals.

[Kilo-Kilo]

....There was no disciplinary action against the Captain who claimed the In-Charge had tampered with crew meals.

"Is there anybody who can fly the plane that hasn't eaten the fish?"

[ogc]

There was quite the uproar at United when a Sao Paulo to Chicago flight diverted to kick off the In-Charge after a dispute. There was no disciplinary action against the Captain who claimed the In-Charge had tampered with crew meals.

I was flying YVR to YYZ and I heard a couple of flight attendants talking about working on a flight to Europe and spitting in the flight crews meal because they were a couple of "pompous douche's"

[sanjet]

Very sad... Remember Karma...

[airbournesailor]

It's the same in every industry. Had to get a RCMP letter of conduct a few days ago. The secretary (or whatever they call them these days) wouldn't ALLOW the police officer to give me a letter because there was another Station 15 min closer to where I lived. The officer is a good friend and later told me that these clerks run the show! Had to drive an extra 1 1/2 hrs!

[Minimums]

Go's to show with a union, everybody is the boss. Take away the union (and the 45 dollar an hour flight attendant), and the world is right again.

[Grease Nipple]

Wouldn't catch me flying with anyone who made a comment like that.

[Lost in Saigon]

But the point is the investigation showed that there never was a comment like that made.

The news media keeps leaving out that little detail. The headlines should read:

"Disgruntled Flight Attendant creates lie to slander Captain. Captain was cleared of any wrong doing"

"Same disgruntled Flight Attendant later tells same lie to other colleagues and convinces them not to work."

[yycflyguy]

But the point is the investigation showed that there never was a comment like that made.

The news media keeps leaving out that little detail. The headlines should read:

"Disgruntled Flight Attendant creates lie to slander Captain. Captain was cleared of any wrong doing"

"Same disgruntled Flight Attendant later tells same lie to other colleagues and convinces them not to work."

Amen Brother... unfortunately your headline doesn't sell newspapers. False accusations such as these need to be dealt with. It is the same as when a CATSA (fill in your favourite country's Airport Security here) claims to have smelled alcohol on a pilots breathe during screening and the police are called in and the "accused" is led away by the authorities to be tested. Unfortunately, after being vindicated the newspapers never pick up on the mistake. Someone's professional image has been destroyed. Had it been me, the next step would be to sue the guard, his supervisor, the local airport authority and the newspaper for false accusation.

[Kilo-Kilo]

How about,

"DELUSIONAL FLIGHT ATTENDANT CAUSES TERROR AMONG CABIN CREW!"

[Lost in Saigon]

How about,

"DELUSIONAL FLIGHT ATTENDANT CAUSES TERROR AMONG CABIN CREW!"

Hey, I like that one. It might even sell a few newspapers!

[Meatservo]

Only an animal would spit in someone's food as a way to "get back" at them. It's dirty and low class. It debases them and their whole "profession"

[tca]

Court heard four members of the crew refused to work because a flight attendant had told them that the pilot, on a previous trip, indicated that he was going to "ditch" the aircraft and had "nothing to lose."

Perhaps what she really heard was "we're never going to lose this bitch", which does rhyme with ditch, but sounds a lot more believable.

[Solaris]

Only an animal would spit in someone's food as a way to "get back" at them. It's dirty and low class. It debases them and their whole "profession"

I have never, ever heard or seen any F/A even mention doing anything as despicable as that,,,,,,if I did I would report them myself.

I am sorry to see this thread has generated so much hostility towards F/A's. We have great respect for the Pilots and 99.9% of the time get along very well with each other. It is crucial that we work together as a team and keep the lines of communication open. We now have Crew Resource Management training in our annual recurrent training and the importance of this is stressed.
To say that F/A's are now running the ship is ludicrous, the Captain always has and always will have the final authority.

The incident in question is most unfortunate indeed, it certainly would be interesting to get all the facts straight before all the nasty name calling.

Please Note: If you read the link provided by Lost In Saigon, the names suggest the In-Charge and at least one of the other's involved are MALE
So much for "cabin cows" and "bitches".

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/C ... story.html

[ogc]

Only an animal would spit in someone's food as a way to "get back" at them. It's dirty and low class. It debases them and their whole "profession"

I have never, ever heard or seen any F/A even mention doing anything as despicable as that,,,,,,if I did I would report them myself.

They may have been lying but I was sitting last row and complimented with their conversations.

Male and female talking about it.

It wasnt a "you should have seen what I did" convo... it was a "hey remember that time when we spat in those pompous douches meals"