New Toronto VNC/VTA

[MCB]

I've heard that a new new VNCs and VTAs are available for Toronto. Any significant changes (like last time)?

MCB

[RatherBeFlying]

Supposedly the new Toronto maps are out in April, but has anybody actually seen any in the pilot shops yet?

[lionheart27]

Not out in Aviation World yet
Is the deal you still get a freebee if you find an error?
What's the holdup NAVCAN?

[MCB]

I just got the new ones (Toronto VTA and VNC) from Toronto Aviation world.

As far as I can tell, no real dramatic changes.

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

As far as I can tell, no real dramatic changes.

Other than VFR traffic staying below 6000' 100nm from CYYZ. Except in designated practice area's for flight schools AND Skydive gigs.

Any higher than 6k...some of us IFR traffic gotta put down our books/newspapers and look outside for you "altitude unconfirmed" VFR traffic. I can't get my read on when you people are out bombin' around when the sky turns a certain shade of blue

[Big Pistons Forever]

As far as I can tell, no real dramatic changes.

Other than VFR traffic staying below 6000' 100nm from CYYZ. Except in designated practice area's for flight schools AND Skydive gigs.

Any higher than 6k...some of us IFR traffic gotta put down our books/newspapers and look outside for you "altitude unconfirmed" VFR traffic. I can't get my read on when you people are out bombin' around when the sky turns a certain shade of blue

Wow, YYZ ATC must be really tragic if if they are putting jets down to 6000 ft 100 miles from CYYZ.....

[slam525i]

Can someone confirm this 6000 within 100 nm? Seems a little ridiculous.

[Oor Wullie]

Tried to get my hands on a new map today....

Seems some keener has found an error new Map(s). NavCanada has yanked them from the shelf for the time being.

Don't ask what the new error is, I have no clue.

[gustind]

Lots of new provincial parks on the VNC....

[lionheart27]

What's interesting about that 6000 within 100nm is that Porter Airlines gets kind of Snubbed by Pearson ATC when they are on flights to Thunder Bay and Sudbury. I listen to them online sometimes and when they request higher than 4000, they only give them as high as 6000 for at least 30nm or so. Most of the reasons I'm sure still stem around Brampton, Buttonville and Hamilton and the busy airspace. At peaks 30 A/C an hour landing

Interesting to hear that the birds are roosting on the De-Ice pads or there abouts. One AC made a call that they had a minor bird strike on T/O today. Could be due to them using the 33's cause of the winds over the past few days.

[RatherBeFlying]

Seems some keener has found an error new Map(s). NavCanada has yanked them from the shelf for the time being.

Looks like that's becoming SOP; the last map had to be recalled as well.

What's interesting about that 6000 within 100nm is that Porter Airlines gets kind of Snubbed by Pearson ATC when they are on flights to Thunder Bay and Sudbury. I listen to them online sometimes and when they request higher than 4000, they only give them as high as 6000 for at least 30nm or so.

Yep, us glider folks between Guelph and Rockton are getting a bit gun shy with the twin turboprops blasting through at those levels. There's a bunch of VFR traffic just outside the YYZ Class C. If there's a cumulus on a nice day, there could be a bunch of gliders below it.

[whistlerboy02]

The previous VNC had alot good points however....... lets not dwell on the good when we can whine about the trivial stuff.
If I am VFR eastbound North of Toronto on an assigned VFR route, Altitude, and freq...... is Orangville as close as you can let me to YYZ? If a pilot is sharp enough to get with the program then reward him with a shorter route that doesnt add 25 miles to his trip.... The VNC actually punishes him.... It's faster to ignore the VFR route and fly a mile outside the zone..... it's maybe not smarter... but its faster and for anybody who flies... fast counts

[goldeneye]

NOTAM re: Toronto VNC

100244 CZYZ TORONTO FIR
CZYZ TORONTO VNC (AIR 5000) 28TH EDITION: N SIDE: TORONTO
TRANSPONDER MODE C REQUIRED ABV E6500 ASL BOUNDARY: AIRSPACE HAS
BEEN ERRONEOUSLY SHIFTED BY 17 NM TO THE EAST DRG THE PRODUCTION
PROCESS. CHART USERS ARE CAUTIONED TO BE VIGILANT IN THEIR USE

[IFRATC]

Porter does not get "snubbed" as you put it. When they add a new route to their schedule, a meeting is always involved to find out what they would "like" and what we can accomodate.
The 6000T restriction is more to do with the arrival corridor over YSO and WASIE. Depending on runway config. jets are crossing WASIE at 7000T 210kts on the RNAV STAR.
As you can tell Porters departure route takes them right through the inbound routing. If there is a sufficient gap between arrivals they will get vectored and climb to the oncourse. This is not always possible when dynamic in-trial spacing is applied. Jets are entering terminal with between 5 and 10 mile spacing when we are busy.
I can assure you that every effort is made to get guys climbing and pointed to there on course as soon as practicable.
Quite often Porter gets stuck low because of there own company traffic inbound as well. Different altitudes are used for satelite airports and the routes are different to those of the bedposts entering YYZ. There is not alot of space out there laterally to vector and climb. Yes, occassionally they do get stuck down low for a bit but believe me we don't want them down there as much as they don't want to be there. It increases workload on the adjacent sectors to get them climbing to flightplanned altitude as well just because of the volume of YYZ departures. Whenever there is any bit of lateral space guys are vectored to these gaps, climbed and cleared on course.

IFRATC

[cyeg66]

Porter does not get "snubbed" as you put it. When they add a new route to their schedule, a meeting is always involved to find out what they would "like" and what we can accomodate.
The 6000T restriction is more to do with the arrival corridor over YSO and WASIE. Depending on runway config. jets are crossing WASIE at 7000T 210kts on the RNAV STAR.
As you can tell Porters departure route takes them right through the inbound routing. If there is a sufficient gap between arrivals they will get vectored and climb to the oncourse. This is not always possible when dynamic in-trial spacing is applied. Jets are entering terminal with between 5 and 10 mile spacing when we are busy.
I can assure you that every effort is made to get guys climbing and pointed to there on course as soon as practicable.
Quite often Porter gets stuck low because of there own company traffic inbound as well. Different altitudes are used for satelite airports and the routes are different to those of the bedposts entering YYZ. There is not alot of space out there laterally to vector and climb. Yes, occassionally they do get stuck down low for a bit but believe me we don't want them down there as much as they don't want to be there. It increases workload on the adjacent sectors to get them climbing to flightplanned altitude as well just because of the volume of YYZ departures. Whenever there is any bit of lateral space guys are vectored to these gaps, climbed and cleared on course.

IFRATC

Simple: "Climb FL230. Climb at 23000'/min..... <big pause> If unable to comply, remain at 6000' and advise."