Man up.

[Nark]

I was talking over recent events with another pilot (different company). Came to a conclusion:
Pilots are a dime a dozen. Those who can fly in marginal VFR aren't. Guess which one is needed in Alaska?

Have the decency to give 2 weeks notice if you can't hack it. Having to call in someone on their day off, while they had out of town visitors, didn't look good on your part. I'm willing to bet it pissed that person off. Maximum duty days end on end require a rest period. I'll live with that if the buck stopped there.

What really put the icing on the cake was that you accused the powers-at-be of pushing you. If you want a knife fight, bring a f*ing knife. Don't cover your inability to fly with something completely untrue.

If several (more than 4) pilots from three different companies made it in when it was STILL VFR why can't you? Because you're not comfortable flying when you see a cloud. I get that. Not everyone can fly here. I held your hand, just as mine was held when I first started here. At some point you need to let go, or as the subject says, man up.

You were a great person but a shitty pilot. Now you're just a shitty person and a shitty pilot.

I doubt you read this board, but I hope this serves as lesson to others out there in AvCanada-land. If you don't like the flying your doing, give your companies the decency of more than 45 minutes when you leave.

If the company asks you to fly overweight, in bad weather, or doesn't pay you about 2 seconds is enough notice, but in this matter, that isn't the case.

[unregistered]

Interesting.

What makes a pilot shitty these days anyway? I'm curious, because I have no idea really . . . but I better check in case I am one.

[Rudy]

Sounds like there's a lot more to this story.
Even if you don't outright say 'go fly or you're fired' a lot of pressure can be perceived by pilots from management. Something made this fellow walk away. Not giving adequate notice suggests a total lack of character OR an immediate concern for his safety.
What exactly were the weather conditions and what was the forecast? You said it was "STILL VFR" so the weather was deteriorating. Other pilots 'making it in' doesn't mean anything. There's a ton of heroes out there.
There are times when I have chosen to sit it out and others went and the weather ended up being fine. There are times when others sat it out and I went and the weather ended up being fine. Maybe he just made the wrong call that day.

Or he was just a shitty person. Then you're both better off going your separate ways.

[Heliian]

I can list almost a dozen fatal accidents where one company turned down the job due to weather and another "tough company" stepped up and proceeded to fly into the ground. Some people are dicks, no matter what the profession and some people just can't hack it. As for getting a call on your days off, that's just SOP for some places, you're lucky to have it only happen once. Personally, i would never quit without notice unless it was immediate danger. On the bright side, it means more hours for you!

[Changes in Latitudes]

So "please give notice" is the Coles notes version...enlightening.

[Tim]

im a little conflicted about what to think about this....marginal weather means a tough go/no go decision that is easy to second guess...and rudy is right, the only thing other people making it in ahead of you means is that youre more likely to push it. however for nark to get riled up like that, there must have been a good reason.

[Changes in Latitudes]

All it comes down to is give some notice if you quit and if you're uncomfortable with going flying then stay on the ground. If staying on the ground won't cut it, give the notice. As for the rest of this diatribe, you can go visit a vast group of people at the cemetery who "manned up" after other guys made it in.

I think the real passion of the original poster simply comes from the idea that another pilot was inconvenienced on his days off.

[Nark]

There is a lot more to the story, however I'll leave it there.

If you read what I wrote, I'm not pissed about their decision to stay on the ground. The best of pilots are paid not when they fly, but when they choose not to fly.

What I was getting at is that if 2000' overcast and 2 miles gets to you, you need to have some integrity, look inside and find an ounce of intestinal fortitude and leave. Walk with your head held high. You left because of YOUR own inability to comfortably fly in marginal weather (no big deal). That is not a reflection on the company. So don't blame the company.

Get it?

[Jack Klumpus]

Why don't you man up and tell him to his face instead of slagging him on the net?

Classy!

[Nark]

Why don't you man up and tell him to his face instead of slagging him on the net?

Classy!

If I ever see HER rest assured I will.

This boils down to her calling us dangerous by-proxy, which isn't the case.

[KAG]

Nark
On one hand you had a pilot who gives you no time and quits, on the other you had a nervous/weak pilot that sounds like would have gotten herself into serious trouble if she stayed.
This may be a blessing in disguise?

[Bushav8er]

I'm with Nark.
VFR is VFR, even if its 2 mi and 500' (in the right airspace). It does not sound like anyone was 'pushing' this person to fly in 1/2 and 400'.

I've seen people refuse to fly, or return in similar situations.

There are 3 types here;
1) those that continually refuse or return,
2) those that go regardless and pushing on like (and often acting like) a hero and,
3) those that progressively gain experience and comfort in stages to marginal VFR.

After a short time, and hopefully some mentoring, companies (that care) can see who is which and they don't want or have any need for those that are 1 or 2.

The main point is to encourage and teach - NOT push - those that can learn, while continually reminding them not to push beyond their current limits, and most important, to leave an out.

[fish4life]

it sounds like a classic case of some people in this new generation of pilots that only did training at flight schools when the weather was good and are scared anytime its lower than 3000' and 5 miles. I encourage any new pilots that are doing training to go up in all conditions (within reason). Best thing you can do is push the weather with an experience instructor beside you that way when the day comes that you finally have your license and job and the weather is 2000ovc and 2miles you are more than comfortable with the situation and you can handle it calmly and safely. I am really thankful that I trained in pretty much all weather conditions because weather changes as well and when I was on a flight once during my time building and the weather got a lot worse (500' 2 miles) I was comfortable with the situation and continued safely to my destination. Its too bad nark because it sounds like you even went up with them a few times to make sure they were going to be comfortable with the wx only to have them bow out when they needed to actually fly in it alone.

[Indanao]

Why don't you man up and tell him to his face instead of slagging him on the net?

Classy!

"Slagging" him on the net? Did you see any names posted ? "Man up and tell him to his face.." ( Her? How hard is that Jack Klumpus ? )

[Nark]

I'm not in management, however after talking with with and getting a better insight I'll add this.

Her limits are much higher than those required to fly here. She mentioned that she would hope to improve on them throughout the summer, however failed to do so. We are encouraged not to fly in marginal weather at the beginning then progress as we learn. Collectively as a group all the new hires have been number 3. And yes, I and others have flown with her on numerous occasions. She simply failed to progress and remained a number 1.

KAG,
Blessing in disguise, I believe so.

[scopiton]

interesting post nark and here are few basic questions
- was the pilot confortable with the geography and did he/she know the run well enough ?
- did the pilot have an IFR rating ?
- what was the pilot's experience in bush ops and time on type ?
- is the aircraft gps equiped ?
- would it have been possible to send the pilot with a more experienced captain just to increase the said pilot's enveloppe and comfort, notice I don't say "babysitter" but captain - ?

just questions i'm throwing in the conversation, cause I'm just curious.
I agree with you however on the notice before leaving, that's a standard.

edited
ok your previous post just answered my questions
disregard

[Jack Klumpus]

To many of us this pilot will remain unknown, however, in their circle, I'm sure people will know who it is.

When someone behaves as such, why even bother with them? Let it go.

Clearly, the originator of this thread is passionate about what happened, hence, taking his own advise, maning up, and calling the pilot.

p.s. Maybe she didn't man up, cos... she's a she?

[altiplano]

-

[2R]

Think yourself lucky it was not flying as your co-pilot,or you may have been written up under the SMS system as being a dangerous crazy pilot for wanting to fly in LEGAL weather.And then get back stabed by the same spineless shit for six months making your life miserable and attempting to ruin the careers of four other Captains by abusing the SMS system and calling Transport Canada causing the company to get a special audit and the Captains special scrutiny on rides.Two of whom got knocked back on interviews ,when they where asked about any previous issues .
I know four pilots who got that treatment and it has stalled their careers.

[Big Pistons Forever]

It sure sounds like this pilot was in way over their head........ it happens and there is often no easy solution. How would it have helped the company if she had stayed for her two week notice ? More flights would have been disrupted she would have become more demoralized and less confident which is hardly conductive to safe flying.
Sometimes a clean break is the best as may have been the case here. It is unfortunate it affected you personally and probably had a negative effect on the company in the short term but I would far rather see a pilot "man up" and say "I do not have the confidence in my skills to do this job safely" than the opposite case of a pilot with bigger balls than brains.

This also points the importance of giving CPL students some training and a taste of actual MVFR during their CPL course. I always tried to take my CPL students out on a least one really marginal day so they could see the challenges of flying VFR in crappy weather. I also expicitly covered flight planning and navigational techniques for MVFR trips during the navigation phase. Still this is not very common and I would bet most FTU's would stop flying in the conditions you described (2000 and 2), so iti should be no surprise this pilto was unprepared for the conditions that are common where Nark operates.

[scopiton]

2r check your pm

[iflyforpie]

+1 BPF.

I read somewhere that a bush pilot in Alaska has a one in eight chance of getting killed on the job over a 30 year career. Most crashes are related to weather.

If this pilot has had a scare or simply can't 'cut-it', the best thing is to stop flying right away. As a business owner, I wouldn't want to be sending paying passengers with a pilot who has lost their nerve, for whatever reason.

And if it was me running the business, I would have cut or rescheduled flights (this is what we do), not called somebody in on their day off to fix the problem.

[LegoMan]

Alaska looks like fun

[Expat]

I would not hire a truck driver that cannot drive in rain, or snow, or fog,... If I hired a truck driver, he would drive until the road is officially closed.
What is the diff?

[Road Trip]

+1 BP

Sorry Nark but the pilot did the right thing. She wasn't confident, didn’t feel safe and stopped flying immediately. Doesn’t matter if it was sever clear, she didn’t feel she was safe to fly and that’s the short of it. Two weeks from now may have been a bent airplane and several dead passengers too late.

Whatever inconvenience the company felt is nothing compared to what an accident would have caused.

Seems to me she did man up. She made a very hard decision that will cost her more than it cost the company or the other pilots. That’s true pilot decision making when you make a choice that you know will hurt your career in the long run but you feel is the safest choice for yourself and passengers.