ATAC Blacklist?

[I Have a Question]

I have a friend who was flying for a small airline with a 1 year commitment. If they left they would have to pay off their PPC training. After they agreed to the deal the company slashed the wages they agreed to pay in half. On top of this the employee was/is subjected to an employer who is maniplitive, close-minded, arrogant and insulting. On top of that they have been pushed to break CARs on numourus occasions. When the pilot indicated that they were thinking of leaving, the employer said that ATAC has a members only blacklist. Other airlines can log in & check to see if any potential new hires are on the list. The Pilot was warned that if they left they would be put on this list & their career would be over. Does such a list exist? (either @ ATAC or elsewhere) If so it seems like a very unfair that someone can be put on this list without any means of recorse & no objective person reviewing the file to make sure it's not being used as a way to blackmail pilots into working in sub-standard conditions.

[200hr Wonder]

Let me see, I smell some bovine excrement here. I would if after signing a contract and having my wages cut in half, go into the office tell the boss to kiss my pasty white ass, and never return. Training Bonds are two way contracts, I agree to stay for x period of time in return for training on x type of aircraft and for x wage. They broke there end of the end of the contract. If anything call labour relations about the 1/2 wage cut to try and claw some back. Of course if the original higher wage was never in writing you are SOL.

[mudrider]

Sounds like a company I used to work for in YXX? My thoughts... There is no black list for pilots only you will be black listed for even working for such a moron as I almost found out.. luckily I quit so I wasn't a scap pilot to the rest of my peers. My 2 bits take it for what it is worth.

[xsbank]

Isn't this a great industry?

If he quits, where is he going to go? Its not like there's a whole lot of other companies looking for pilots. Frankly, if the owner is such an asshat, nothing good will come out of it, I would bail; you can imagine the reference the pilot will get even if he stays.

[Lurch]

There is no blacklist that I've ever seen, I wish there was because I know one a**hat I'd put on the list.

Thier reputation will be ruined if they stay there and wreak a plane, just check out the MT thread.

As for training bonds, they aren't worth the paper they are written on. Going after somebody through the courts for anything less then $50,000 isn't worth it. Even if they win good luck collecting if you have nothing they can't take anything.

I'd take notes/copy papers to protect myself in case they did sue me. If I was really annoyed I'd take their Ops to TC and they'd be so busy covering their a**es they wouldn't have time to blacklist me.

They already broke the contract, run like the wind and put as much distance between them and you as you can. Use your experience with them in the interview so in case the other company does hear something you at least beat them to it.

Lurch

[I Have a Question]

Yea I use to have access to ATAC (I had access through another company I worked for) I never saw anything like that.....but then again, ATAC is an association created purly for employers so maybe they do......& I never spent much time on the website

[planett]

I've never hear of such a list, but......... the intent, the attitude, it all sounds familiar to me. I had a former employer conduct a smear campaign against me and some other employees for things like writing defects in logbooks and not flying overweight etc. It was a phone call campaign, and he was caught in the act by a co-worker, turned red faced and hung up. I was not there to see it, I was, however, re-hired by a former employer who advised me later of a phone call which could only be described as "character assassination" by this individual.

Fight fire with fire. Destroy his credibility before he returns the favor, but do it with facts, hopefully the same things you would have confronted him with before. I survived, It can be done.

[Bushav8er]

It's really to bad that there's no blacklist of companies/employers

[pilotidentity]

I've quit a couple "bad" companies and it hasn't effected my career at all. I might have been worried about money for a bit but it always worked out better to leave.

I've been asked at interviews to explain if I ever left a job under bad terms. Yes I have I said and made the explanation short and sweet without bashing the company. Everyone in a chief pilot position knows how these bad companies operate.

If you don't like where you are don't be afraid about it effecting your reputation, just try to go as quitetly and as soon as possible.

A company might not be that bad but they might try to pull some kind of stunt after you've been there awhile that negatively effects your schedule, the equipment you fly, or your pay. It is very common in Canada. They promise you the moon and stars to get you to come work for them and it all seems great at first then the offer starts to fall apart as they feel they have you by the balls (you pulled up roots and moved, you are getting good experience and benefit by being there, etc...) At this point its good to start your exit plan quietly. The fact you are doing a great job doesn't matter to them if they can save a few dollars here and there.

You don't have to pay back a bond if you have been fired - and by reducing your wages you are in a "constructive dismissal" situation - the boss is forcing you to quit because of a change to your previous employment agreement - this doesn't have to be in writting if you can prove by a pay stub you used to be paid more for the same work.

Good luck.

[JTF01]

Yes, good luck to your friend. Sounds like a very uncomfortable situation.

j

[MrWings]

It's really to bad that there's no blacklist of companies/employers

Why can't there be in this age of the internet? And don't give me the slander/libel/defamation lawsuit threat.

There are websites that rate doctors, teachers, hotels, airline, etc. If you are telling the truth and can prove it, you can't be sued.

This is a small industry. If it is happening to your friend it has happened to someone else and other employers likely know how shoddy this operator is already. In an interview, saying you left an employer because he asked you to bust CARS is a good thing. At least at a reputable company it is.

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[erics2b]

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I concur.

[trey kule]

It's really to bad that there's no blacklist of companies/employers

There are a few problems with this. A few years back a very good friend of mine was really getting a rough time from a company. He quit. And he did post it on Avcanada. No one paid attention, and the thread was pulled. the company went under a few weeks later and a whole bunch of pilots and AME's did not get paid. The slimeball who burned all these people is now back in the business.
Also, regardless of defamation , who would be responsable to see that the list was made fairly. It is not only employers who practice character assassination.
Lastly. What is the point? There is not a pilot in Canada with less than 500 hours who would pay the slightest bit of attention..."Its a job dude!". And of course it will not be all that bad. Those other 20 guys who just left..well...who knows, but it wont happen to me. Besides, there are lots out there who are more than willing not to write snags in the book, or who will fly overweight...gang members in waiting.

Some ideas are really good , but totatlly impractable, and unfortunately, this is one of them.

[just curious]

An actual list, while intriguing, especially on a website, is really unlikely. If it emerged in the public domain, then lawsuits would be more than a possibility.

More likely, over a couple of pops, I could picture someone at an ATAC meeting saying "Hey, that reminds me, we had this guy, and..." The thing to bear in mind is that alphabet groups aren't always the conference of choice for companies, unless there is a policy they want changed. It doesn't generate revenue.

I'm fairly sure that sort of thing has been going on since the first fermentation of grapes.

[nutbutter]

Why don't we make our own blacklist of bad companies on the internet; jerks that pressure you to flying in bad weather, flying overweight, fixing duty days and duty times, withholding pay, bad bonds (1 way contracts), manipulating flight dispatch, and then attempt to punish you when you don't comply with demands?? We could write a pros and cons for each employer, from former employees (also giving reasons for leaving, years/hours worked), and it could be anonymous (we are on the internet), we could also apply a rating system similar to the one on ebay whereby laws of averages could weed out smear campaigns by poor former employees. There are currently databases on the internet of most airlines in North America. Prospective charter clients could browse such a list for an internal look into the airlines they hire. Even kids fresh out of school would probably think twice about going to work for a sketchfest listed, and combined with the anonymity of the internet and freedom of speech its virtually a no lose situation. In fact companies wanting to attract new employees and retain current employees while at the same time paying lower wages might want to be a credible company on said list?
As a group we commercial and transport pilots within Canada and the US are currently our own worst enemies and the sole reason companies get away with treating us the way they do. What is to stop us from turning the tables?

[ScudRunner]

Companies get a reputation in this industry, I know of a few pilots that where fired/constructively dismissed and thought their career was over. While looking for work and while explaining the who/what/where usually the CP would say something along the lines of oh ya that sure sounds like so and so at Air XYZ when can you start here.

On the other hand some pilots just do it to themselves and skip from airline to airline blaming everyone but themselves.