Two crop dusters collide in Rosetown.

[nimbostratus]

http://www.saskatoonhomepage.ca/index.p ... Itemid=421


There was an accident at the Rosetown airport yesterday (Wed) evening.

RCMP report that at 8:55 they responded to a collision involving two crop dusters.

One of the planes had touched down and was on his landing roll when the second aircraft began its takeoff .

One aircraft suffered damage as the tail end was broken off and the second aircraft suffered front end damage.

Neither pilot was injured, but plane fuel and the chemical being sprayed leaked out of one of the planes.

The Transportation Safety Board was notified and is investigating the collision.

[Tim]

so let me get this straight...the person taking off start his roll while the other a/c was still on the runway in front of him? i really hope thats not the case.

[CpnCrunch]

Something pretty similar to this happened to two crop dusters in Manitoba last year. Get on the frickin radio, people - this kind of thing is very avoidable!

[Salt]

A good number of dusters don't have radios. I used to do pipeline patrol through that area... all you could rely on was your eyes, as you'd never get a reply from them.

[niss]

A good number of dusters don't have radios. I used to do pipeline patrol through that area... all you could rely on was your eyes, as you'd never get a reply from them.

Spoken like a true russian spy, a sexy russian spy.

[Heliian]

A good number of dusters don't have radios. I used to do pipeline patrol through that area... all you could rely on was your eyes, as you'd never get a reply from them.

Uh ya, i'm sure they have radios, but are too busy looking at the ground whizzing by to bother. At an aerodrome though while landing/taking off? That's just dumb.

[SAR_YQQ]

Ok - I don't get these guys. How much extra does it weigh to carry a radio? How about a transponder?

Why do they feel it is legal to transit from their work site back to the airfield at 100' AGL? I see these guys daily flying over a built up area at less than VFR altitudes.

I know they have a job to do - but most times I meet these guys in the air, they are breaking basic rules. I witnessed one of them contact the MF for the first time when he was on a two mile final - the MF is 5 miles.

Someone please tell me that I am just encountering the worst sprayer drivers...

[shitdisturber]

Ok - I don't get these guys. How much extra does it weigh to carry a radio? How about a transponder?

Why do they feel it is legal to transit from their work site back to the airfield at 100' AGL? I see these guys daily flying over a built up area at less than VFR altitudes.

I know they have a job to do - but most times I meet these guys in the air, they are breaking basic rules. I witnessed one of them contact the MF for the first time when he was on a two mile final - the MF is 5 miles.

Someone please tell me that I am just encountering the worst sprayer drivers...

Unfortunately, you're not. I've seen it all over the prairies pretty much exactly as has been described. I'm always that little extra bit more cautious around an airdrome that I know cropdusters operate out of.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Ag pilots only get paid when there is chemicals coming out of the nozzles. The transit to and from the airport is nonrev so there is a tendancy to cut corners.....but the bottom line is these are uncontrolled airports so at the end of the day it is only the quality of your lookout that is going to keep you safe.

[Heliian]

no wonder why the terrorizers wanted to get in the crapdusting, no radio=no problem.

[Expat]

I know these guys normally crop dust at sun up or sunset times, so vis can be a major factor. I did photo flying, and I know that when you fly 100 AGL for hours, you have no wish to do a pattern at 1000 AGL before landing... You just steer her in like a car...
Such is life in the country...

[SAR_YQQ]

...but the bottom line is these are uncontrolled airports so at the end of the day it is only the quality of your lookout that is going to keep you safe.

Concur 100% about a good look out.

The airport in question has an MF to a radio FSS via RCO. When the duster checked in short final - I could hear the hesitation in the controllers voice as he consider filing an infraction.

I also live in the 10nm ring around CYPG. The crop dusters fly at 100'AGL over my house all the time - following the #1 highway I guess. I can only wonder if they bothered even checking in with Southport Tower - since they know that the Winnipeg SSR can't see that low.

[CpnCrunch]

Here they fly at 100-200AGL as well, but they stay clear of the town. I imagine it saves a lot of time flying low to the spray site, it is presumably legal for them to do, and they're obviously safe flying low.

They do, however, sometimes join right base which I believe is always illegal (for a left-hand circuit aerodrome). But at least they do always broadcast their intentions on the radio so you can get out of their way.

All the serious crop sprayers these days have big turbine engines and fancy gps equipment telling them exactly where they are, so what's so difficult about having a radio?

[Widow]

From CADORS 2010C2554:

User Name: Ridley, Rod

Date: 2010-07-29

Further Action Required: No

O.P.I.: System Safety

Narrative: Two M 18 Dromader spray aircraft operated by West Central Air, collided on the ground at Rosetown, SK. One aircraft was taking off and the other one was landing in the opposite direction to the departing aircraft when they collided. Both aircraft were substantially damaged but the pilots were not injured. Rosetown fire, EMS and RCMP personnel attended the site. TSB report to follow.

User Name: Ridley, Rod

Date: 2010-07-30

Further Action Required: No

O.P.I.: System Safety

Narrative: UPDATE TSB reported that the PZL Mielic M-18A Dromader application aircraft, registration C-GMVQ had completed a run-up and was postioned at the button of Runway 07 at the Rosetown, SK airport. Another PZL Mielic M-18A Dromader aircraft, registration C-FYNL, on approach to Runway 25 at the Rosetown airport, joined the circuit on a right base leg. The pilot of C-FYNL turned onto final approach with C-GMVQ in sight and assumed that C-GMVQ would hold until C-FYNL had cleared the runway. Neither pilot made a broadcast on the ATF. The pilot of C-GMVQ was unaware of C-FYNL and began his takeoff roll on Runway 08. Shortly after C-FYNL touched down, both pilots saw the other aircraft and took evasive action, but the aircraft collided on the runway. There were no injuries, but both aircraft sustained substantial damage, which resulted in a fuel and chemical spill.

Thread about similar incident last year: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=56219

[Tim]

so not just 2 ag planes, but for the same company?

com·pla·cent   /kəmˈpleɪsənt/
–adjective
1. pleased, esp. with oneself or one's merits, advantages, situation, etc., often without awareness of some potential danger or defect; self-satisfied

[trey kule]

I am willing to bet that there are two of our fellow aviators out there who are not feeling to good tonight, and will no doubt be taking stock of the way they did and will do things.

Do we really need to post this vicious drivel like the definition of complacency, and the associated horror stories. I am sure none of the posters' here have made even one little mistake where their attention was diverted, or a procedure wasnt done exactly as the great gods at TC wanted.

To the pilots who did this, I am glad you all got out OK.

[CpnCrunch]

so not just 2 ag planes, but for the same company?

So were the two that collided last year.

assumed that C-GMVQ would hold until C-FYNL had cleared the runway

...dumb and illegal

joined the circuit on a right base leg

...illegal but they all seem to do it

[Tim]

I am willing to bet that there are two of our fellow aviators out there who are not feeling to good tonight, and will no doubt be taking stock of the way they did and will do things.

Do we really need to post this vicious drivel like the definition of complacency, and the associated horror stories. I am sure none of the posters' here have made even one little mistake where their attention was diverted, or a procedure wasnt done exactly as the great gods at TC wanted.

To the pilots who did this, I am glad you all got out OK.

hardly vicious rather, a likely cause. the cador stinks of complaceny. feeling bad doesnt get you off the hook. and, there is a huge difference between complancency and a mistake.

are right ccts standard at this a/d?

[AuxBatOn]

assumed that C-GMVQ would hold until C-FYNL had cleared the runway

...dumb and illegal

Huh?

joined the circuit on a right base leg

...illegal but they all seem to do it

Nope, perfectly legal.

[nacho]

This event does not represent the professionalism of the industry these days.
Radio or no radio someone made a mistake and that's all there is to it. WTF does ferrying to and from the field has to do with this?
Majority goes at 500 and comes back at at least 1000. ( that is if the temp and humidity allows)
Maybe someone will say that if you can't climb, you should take a smaller load...

Remember how we react to generalization in every aspect of our lives.
In every sector of aviation there will be mistakes made by pilots.

Remeber a cropduster sprayed the crop that made your beer .......

[CpnCrunch]

assumed that C-GMVQ would hold until C-FYNL had cleared the runway

...dumb and illegal

Huh?

From memory, it is illegal to land on a runway if there is another aircraft on it and there is a risk of collision. Also, the aircraft on the runway has right of way

joined the circuit on a right base leg

...illegal but they all seem to do it

Nope, perfectly legal.

It is illegal to make right-hand turns in the circuit. It's spelled out pretty clearly in the CARs and TC will bust you for this.

[AuxBatOn]

It is illegal to make right-hand turns in the circuit. It's spelled out pretty clearly in the CARs and TC will bust you for this.

Once you are in the circuit it's not legal. HOwever, you can claim you joined a long final (vice a right base)

[SAR_YQQ]

HOwever, you can claim you joined a long final (vice a right base)

How can you join a straight in final without an AG advisory? Mid-field or downwind at uncontrolled airports without an advisory.

[AuxBatOn]

How can you join a straight in final without an AG advisory? Mid-field or downwind at uncontrolled airports without an advisory.

Aerodromes within an MF area when airport advisory information is not available: Aircraft should approach the traffic circuit from the upwind side. Alternatively, once the pilot has ascertained without any doubt that there will be no conflict with other traffic entering the circuit or traffic established within the circuit, the pilot may join the circuit on the downwind leg (Figure 4.6).

From the TC AIM

SHOULD is the key word. It's not regulatory. I joined the circuit at an MF (no ground stations) on final many times in my life, even on a flight test, and never got in trouble for it. An example of this would be a simulated IFR approach (where you are VFR, but do the simulated procedure). You will join on a long final.

[Tim]

It is illegal to make right-hand turns in the circuit. It's spelled out pretty clearly in the CARs and TC will bust you for this.

Once you are in the circuit it's not legal. HOwever, you can claim you joined a long final (vice a right base)

how long a final do you think this guy turned? if you come in at 1/2 a mile then turn 90deg onto final, you joined a base first. not saying thats what happened here, but i would be surprised to learn he turned a 4 mile final. i would argue if you make any 90deg turn onto final, you were on a base first. it might be a long final, but that just makes it a long base IMO.