WS GOOD WILL

[aviator2010]

evryone questions why WS dosen't get bad press.

It;s earned on every flight, the pilots care the FA's care and the CSA's care, Why?

it's their bottom line that their worried about. They earn more with repeat customers. everyone who has taken a WS flight where there has been an issue has seen the difference in reaction. WS buy's pizza AC say's their will be another flight in 3 hours stand to the side please.

as it turns out pilots @#$! up. AC/WS/JAZZ but WS has created the goodwill that affords them the opprotunity not to get burned every time they make a mistake.

Flame Away

[loopa]

Fantastic post dude. I fly WJA all the time, and I find that my experience gets better and better every time! Everybody right from the pilot's, to the flight attendants, to the gate agents are nothing but awesome people. They know how to make you feel welcome and respected. I find that they listen to customers feedback and do their best toward implementing them.

I feel like WJ is that professional atmosphere that is able to also kick back and relax.

Air Canada also has some very positive things, but WJA works better for me. Ultimately, everybody values different things.

[whyisitdoingthat]

I tend to agree with the image thing, it's hard not to like WJ. Even years back with the database spying thing. AC has been forced to turn it up a notch though. My wife was on a YYZ-YXE flight last week and a AC flight attendant grabbed her and my 2 year old and found her a check in without waiting in line. No questions asked. Then during the flight they were uncharacteristicly (sp?) awesome with service and attentiveness. My wife is a former SSV CSM and she should know. Then to top it off the pilots were out shaking hands with the PAX at the end of the flight. That sounds a lot more like WJ. Way to lead by example WJ!

[Pogo Guy]

Personally, when shopping for tickets (which happens a lot) if need be I will pay extra cash for a WJ flight over a cheaper but similar AC flight. Have had a lot of bad experiences with AC and a lot of good ones with WJ. Only fly AC when the times absolutely don't work out. Not that WJ doesn't screw up from time to time, but when they do it is handled 10x better. Plus the trip is a lot more pleasant all around - totally worth an extra 20 or 30 bucks.

[ditar]

I've never had a bad experience with Air Canada, and therefore I fly with them whenever possible. I also avoid traveling on Christmas eve during snowstorms.

Perhaps it's due to my no-nonsense personality. I prefer that the flight attendants not joke around that we've landed in Winnipeg when in fact we were going to Toronto. Just serve me my beverage and move on, thank you.

[ajet32]

I hate to spoil the party but I must disagree with the WS koolaid. I can say that the best service I have had in recent years came from Mexicana :shame they may be gone: followed by Continental.( I was surprised and pleasantly so). I can also say that my service on AC of late has been extremely good without the tacky jokes and hoohaw.
Just my 2 cents worth I don't work at any of the above mentioned carriers.I have flown on all in the last 6 months

[FICU]

It comes down to the comfort of the seats(WJ seat bottoms are too short), the legroom, and the in-flight entertainment system... AC wins hands down for me plus no corny jokes or lack of professionalism...

On a WJ flight some time ago, the Captain grabbed the PA at the front of the cabin and stood in the aisle facing the passengers and gave a speech about how we should all buy WJ stock so it drives the price up so he could sell his and get rich... way to go Westjet!

[loopa]

On the other hand, I was on a WJA flight and the flight was late due to a pax, the pilot went out and bought three pack of 45 timbits and it was served on the flight. I guess putting 10 bucks into your own company is worth it over losing some guys to the competition. Plus, who doesn't like timbits? So I am completely on board when people say that WJA handles the problems 10x better. That doesn't go to say however that I've had some positive experiences with ACA.

I honestly think the whole WJA/ACA debate is a mere personal choice. Some people prefer the no smile way of travelling, and others prefer the "HAHAHA" way of travelling. From personal experience though, I think the majority of people want a nice, fun, and enjoyable experience when they travel. But every one deserves their respect for how they are. It is worth to mention though that, in the last few times when I've been on the Park & Jet shuttle, when the diver says "WestJet" almost every one says yes, and gets up to leave the shuttle. I've seen this the last 5 times I have flown out of YYC. So good that we have an option that suits both types eh? No one is better or worse than the other. Just different.

When I go overseas, I use European carriers over Air Canada. But that's another personal choice. I find that their flight attendants are more enjoyable

[Rowdy]

Dont blame AC for some of the poor service of the flight attendants.. blame the union! Other than a couple of disgruntled middle aged female french canadian FA's.. I've never had anything but great service.

I personally have a hate on for the "leather" seats on WJ. Uncomfortable even under the best conditions. The jokes in MY opinion are tacky and unproffesional. Despite this, they do have a few excellent employees. Pros and Cons to everything.

The media IS biased however and this disturbs me a bit. Unfortunatly AC seems to get beat up because of it.

[seniorpumpkin]

It is surprising to me how badly AC gets beat up about their customer service. Aside from the odd bitter and jaded unionized F/A, AC does offer fantastic customer service. Plus they have a more diverse fleet which gives them way better flexibility to serve different markets. I fly AC and WJ, and will continue to do so happily.
If you're not convinced that AC is capable of delivering good service, try an international flight, they will knock your socks off!

[sky's the limit]

Personally, I avoid WJ like the plague these days.

The last 3 out of 5 flights have been late, which I can understand. Things break, wx, etc.

The only lost luggage I've ever had anywhere in the world has been with WJ - twice. They handled the losses well, but it was still lost.

And the main reason, I just can't stand the culture. After 27 days flying my butt off on fires last month, I get on an oh-dark-thirty flight utterly exhausted to go home when the guy with the mic decides to do the briefing in "Dr. Zeus language everybody!?!?!?" Pardon me, but I don't see the humour, I don't pay to be treated like a 4yr old, and I can now completely sympathize with the lady who tried to get out the other week - I almost asked to be let off. This happens in one form or another almost every trip, sure jokes may play to the odd casual traveller, but for those of us who move for a living or are between 10 and 70 years of age it gets very, very, old, very quickly.

Enough with the wannabe Disney Land atmosphere already, just get me where I want to go on time with my bags and I'll be happy. Air Canada has greatly improved their service the last while - as a direct result of WJ upping the ante I suspect - but WJ has failed to make the step from boutique to professional imho.

stl

PS Can somebody please inform whoever writes the cabin crew SOP's that "the Captain has (NOT) left the seatbelt sign on for your safety and comfort," they are actually busy getting the aircraft off the ground and the landing gear retracted in the 3.4 seconds after we leave the runway....

[flying4dollars]

I really don't have a preference. Though, I do when it comes to wanting to fly for one or the other, but that's something I'll keep to myself. Personally, the way I book my flight is based on an order of preference and priority. 1) Cost - Whoever is cheaper, gets my $ 2) Departure times/connecting times - Whichever leaves at the most convenient time for me, and if a connection is necessary whichever offers the shortest wait. Or, if one is a direct flight and the other is not, that airline gets my $ 3) Equipment - If both airlines offer the same price, and same convenient departure times, but one is an Dash and the other a 737, well, you can figure out who gets my $.

I find service to be good on either carrier. I don't think I know I can justly say one outdoes the other. Both have ups and downs. When I have flown AC and there has been an issue of delays, or connection problems, I've always been taken care of. Catching a flight from YMM to YVR with a stop in YEG, I missed my connection, and the next one wasn't for another 2 or so hours. I was given access to the Maple Leaf lounge, and then the gate agent made her way to the lounge to find me to give me a business class upgrade on the A320 taking me to Vancouver. I should also mention, there were quite a few empty seats in economy class, so no, it was not overbooked or full. I expressed my gratitude by bringing the a coffee from Timmies and you could tell there was mutual satisfaction that it was a job well done by them. At one time, I was flying WS to Saskatoon from Vancouver with a stop in YYC, and my layover was 4 hours long (no fault of WS, just the way I booked it based on what time I needed to be in Saskatoon). I found a corner at the gate and made myself a nest. Started to play games on my iphone and I noticed the two agents from the next gate over chatting and looking at me. Eventually one lady walked up to me and asked me which flight I was supposed to be on. I told her, and explained it was just the way I booked it that I had this long layover. 20 minutes later she walked over with a $50 voucher to use in the airport while I waited, and WS didn't even screw up to begin with! Again, I used part of that to bring them Timmies and a couple of roses (I had quite a bit left over on the voucher)

Again, with that being said, I have no solid preference and will not pay extra to fly one or the other. It's a matter of those 3 things I mentioned above that I'll consider before choosing my bus.

I have flown on airlines in the US and boy was I ever disappointed with the service. I once booked a flight to cancun and flew on NWA from Saskatoon to Minneapolis to Memphis to Cancun, then on the way back Continental to Houston, NWA to Minneapolis and then again to Saskatoon. All 5 NWA legs were abysmal. The FA's were rude as well as one of the pilots when I landed in Cancun. I needed a pen to fill out the customs card because I didn't have one on me, and rather than either give me one, decided to tell me the aircraft needs to be groomed for me to "get off the jetway and find a pen elsewhere please"

Really made me appreciate the airlines we have in Canada. My dad flies on business a lot and has flown numerous times with US carriers and complains every time. So much so that he demanded he be booked on Canadian carriers only in the future. So before we get upset with the service here, I think we definitely have it much better than other places. You should try flying Tunis Air and Libyan Arab Airlines

[OceansEdge]

honestly I've never been all that fond of WestJet..

my own very humble opinion.... way back when some 15 years ago or so, there was Air Canada and there was Canadian - in a lot of ways very similar airlines similar service, similar pricing. It wasn't necessarily fancy unless you were traveling executive class, but ya gots your snacks and your lunch and your hot and cold beverage service. No one charged ya for a pillow or a blanket or a headset to listen to the in flight radio. Air Canada seemed a bit arrogant in those days and the favoured child of the federal government, and their image took a beating for it, and Canadian seemed to try harder -and I always traveled Canadian when I could.

But Canadian went the way of the dinosaur - and I still miss em (but then again I still miss Ansett too - nostalgic old bitch that I am)

Along comes WestJet - promising a new way of the future, a 'People's Airline' for Canadians - and it seems to me that's exactly the model they brought to Canada. Cheap no frills flying, and yeah air fares relatively speaking have dropped. And away went the lunch, away went my headset, away went any leg room as we pack in the self loading cargo, and away went any kind of civility in air travel. Everything on the cheap cheap cheap. Is this entirely WestJet's fault? No not really, they didn't invent this business model, and maybe we can thank the traveling public for a Walmart mentality - who cares about the quality of the product if I can get it for $1.98 cheaper. And there were the charter carriers, and the JetsGos and a lot of others who contributed to it - and in the end it was done that way because it worked. And Air Canada had little to no choice but to follow suit with Tango (later integrated into the mainline as Tango fares)

To me, it's a sad thing, and I mourn the civility of air travel. More so - I think this mentality was a detriment to the entire aviation industry in Canada.


But these days, what really kinda irritates me.... WestJet always fought this battle on price. But every time I go to book a fare paying ticket .. Air Canada has been cheaper. And a lot of their billboard and other advertisements are pushing now how "no charge for baggage", "free snacks", like somehow this is different - different from US carriers maybe - but AC's baggage allowances, and snacks, are THE SAME, and their charges for pillows and blankets is less, and the headset is still free. In other words - very very little distinguishable difference, but what little difference there is tends to fall to Air Canada's favour. But the irritating part of it this advertising is that WestJet started the large scale price war / cutting services model in Canada!

Is their Care-entee service any better? Not that I've seen. And yeah I'm with the crowd that's tired of 'Boarding Pass Bingo' in the departure lounge and 'bowling for bags of chips' at the check in counter, and the 'there may be 50 ways to leave your lover but there's only 6 ways off leave this aircraft' (guys please lets retire that joke?). Maybe I'm a cynical old bitch, but enough already with the 'happy happy happy', it's all too cutesy, and it just doesn't feel professional to me. I just want a coffee and be left in peace, I'm not saying a pleasant attitude in customer service is a bad thing, I'd just like it to be a bit more 'grown up'.

I've traveled enough on both to note they both have their good flights and their bad ones. FA's or crews, or CSA's that have gone an extra mile, or that I'd rather not deal with again, delays that haven't been explained adequately. It's all same ol same ol. So all other things being pretty much equal - I go by the price, and the 'honesty' of Air Canada.

And in the meantime I applaud Porter, and chose Porter now whenever I can - because I appreciate the attempt to bring a little civility back to airline travel. Ya know personally I'd pay $400 each way - St John's to Toronto return - each time, every time, for just to be treated like a paying customer again - not cattle class. Then again - I believe in clear, understandable, transparent pricing and pricing advertising. Seat 27A costs $427, maybe seat 27D also oughta coast $427. And maybe an advertised $274 fare to Heathrow ought not to be $2300 return for 2 by the time I've finished booking. But I guess that's why I'm not an airline exec.... my business model would never fly.

edited for editorial clarity

[whiteguy]

and the headset is still free.

One who? Don't they both charge?

[OceansEdge]

and the headset is still free.

One who? Don't they both charge?

Nope AirCanada's little ear hooky headphones are still free (or at least they were 6 months ago)

[whiteguy]

and the headset is still free.

One who? Don't they both charge?

Nope AirCanada's little ear hooky headphones are still free (or at least they were 6 months ago)

Nope. $3 for a headset on AC. Everything on the AVOD is free including movies. And they still work outside of North America!

[OceansEdge]

Nope. $3 for a headset on AC. Everything on the AVOD is free including movies. And they still work outside of North America!

Well damn, one more little pin prick stab in my already bleeding heart *sigh*

I used to like flying as a passenger.

[Go Guns]

I used to like flying as a passenger.

But then they started charging $3 for a headset to watch their free entertainment systems... bastards...

Funny, you never see people on line bitching about the $10 that Hudson or Cara charged them for a beer in the terminal, but charge them $3 for a headset and watch the feathers fly...

[fingersmac]

Headsets are free on international flights.

[whiteguy]

I used to like flying as a passenger.

But then they started charging $3 for a headset to watch their free entertainment systems... bastards...

Funny, you never see people on line bitching about the $10 that Hudson or Cara charged them for a beer in the terminal, but charge them $3 for a headset and watch the feathers fly...

Especially on a $99 flight to YVR. I'm sure you can afford the $3!

[OceansEdge]

But then they started charging $3 for a headset to watch their free entertainment systems... bastards...

Funny, you never see people on line bitching about the $10 that Hudson or Cara charged them for a beer in the terminal, but charge them $3 for a headset and watch the feathers fly...

Yeah well - Hudson and Cara don't charge me $2 for the coaster and napkin ...

It's NOT the $3 I mind. It's the continuous nickle and diming; the constant reduction of the little civilities that used to make flying as a passenger a little more pleasant than it is these days.

[whiteguy]

It's NOT the $3 I mind. It's the continuous nickle and diming; the constant reduction of the little civilities that used to make flying as a passenger a little more pleasant than it is these days.

So if you got everything for free still i.e. meals, headsets, seat selection, who would you fly with? AC charging $150 one way to YVR or WJ charging $100?

If you want it pay for it!!!

or

Don't pay the $3, bring your own friggin head set!!!!!!

[OceansEdge]

So if you got everything for free still i.e. meals, headsets, seat selection, who would you fly with? AC charging $150 one way to YVR or WJ charging $100?

If you want it pay for it!!!

or

Don't pay the $3, bring your own friggin head set!!!!!!

I refer you back to my original post...

And in the meantime I applaud Porter, and chose Porter now whenever I can - because I appreciate the attempt to bring a little civility back to airline travel. Ya know personally I'd pay $400 each way - St John's to Toronto return - each time, every time, for just to be treated like a paying customer again - not cattle class. Then again - I believe in clear, understandable, transparent pricing and pricing advertising. Seat 27A costs $427, maybe seat 27D also oughta coast $427. And maybe an advertised $274 fare to Heathrow ought not to be $2300 return for 2 by the time I've finished booking. But I guess that's why I'm not an airline exec.... my business model would never fly.

And I'll say again, it's not the $3 I mind, it's not paying for a quality of service I mind, it's the nickle and diming to death of this industry. It's the Walmart mentality of the traveling public and by extension the airlines serving them. I would rather pay a fair price for fair services. And no despite the press and the who, whoooing, WS is NOT cheaper than AC.

Just a random side by side test this morning. Traveling one week from today, returning in two weeks:

Code: Select all

YVR-YYC:                                             YYT-YYZ:
WS - non-stop 119.00                                  WS - non stop 239.00
AC - non-stop 119.00                                  AC - 1 connection YUL 199.00
                                                              PD - direct 2 stops 169.00 
YYC-YVR:                                                   
WS - non-stop 99.00                                    YYZ-YYT
AC - non-stop 99.00                                     WS - direct 1 stop 149.00 
                                                              AC - non-stop 149.00
Total all in:                                                PD - direct 2 stops 169.00
WS - 340.34                                               
AC - 340.34                                                 Total all in:
                                                              WS - 551.72
                                                              AC - 506.52
                                                              PD - 500.87

So yeah... all other things being more or less equal, I'm gonna go based on service, aircraft, and most convenient times. Despite the 2 stops, I would choose Porter in the 2nd case. YTZ is more convenient, I like the service a whole lot better, and yes I do like the Q400's better than the Embraer, and the better leg room than WS's 737's. Yes, it's a longer flight (+1hr or there abouts), but it's still direct, and the times are convenient for me.

Personally, I would not mind paying more for a flight - AC's Tango Plus, or Latitude fares - but right now, why would I pay $450 vs $149 for the same service? And no - I don't think I'm in the majority, the success of this particular business model would say that I'm by far in the minority. Of course I don't happen to think that's a good thing. From where I'm sitting it looks more and more and more like the industry is gonna keep on following the People's Air, Ryan Air model of as 'cheap as we possibly can', service deteriorates, quality of product deteriorates, and it has an impact throughout the industry. The traveling public who can buy their Calgary to Vancouver seat for $99 really doesn't understand, and kvetches at length about paying $269 to fly to Goose Bay from St John's, or $279 to fly from Winnipeg to Thompson. The regionals fight every day, and cut every dollar they can to try and survive a market where the public has come to expect $99 fares.

So no, I'm not a cheap bitch who wants everything for nothing. Rather just the opposite. I'd like to pay more for a more civilized way of traveling. I'd LIKE to have that option, but I don't. We live in a world of Walmarts. I know there aren't many who'd agree with me, obviously I don't know a damned thing about the airline industry; if I actually knew what I was talking about I'd have a corner office and a secretary. It's just my wee perspective, from my wee corner of this business, YMMV.

[sky's the limit]

So no, I'm not a cheap bitch who wants everything for nothing. Rather just the opposite. I'd like to pay more for a more civilized way of traveling. I'd LIKE to have that option, but I don't. We live in a world of Walmarts. I know there aren't many who'd agree with me, obviously I don't know a damned thing about the airline industry; if I actually knew what I was talking about I'd have a corner office and a secretary. It's just my wee perspective, from my wee corner of this business, YMMV.

I agree with you 100%. The whole industry is in a race to the bottom, I suppose you could say that about almost every industry these days - a "world of Walmarts" indeed.

stl

[xkbal]

The public is getting exactly what the majority of the public want. If that wasn't the case then Westjet, Southwest, Ryanair, etc. wouldn't be the successes that they currently are. Many people complain about it but, at the end of the day, are voting with their wallets.