Hey guys, so, I've got this friend, lol i know. Well 3 years ago he got caught with some bad people, and had to "take" a charge of the criminal nature. After 3 years he has finally been charged and got house arrest recently. The charge was for trafficking of extacy(even though it was never proven that he had any). So instead of ratting on a friend he took the charge basically. He can work and train whenevr he wants while under house arrest. The only other major restriction is he cannot visit the states.
He is just in the process of finishing up his multi ifr i think, and wondering what can he expect other than the obvious(major airlines that actively monitor criminal charges). red passes, which companies don't ask? Any tips? people who are in the same boat?? we're just looking for ideas/options? its funny because he is the furthest thing from a criminal and he can fly the shit out of a plane, he just wants to fly.
Save the negative comments please.
hoping to hear from people with personal experience.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
criminal charges
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themansorykid
- Rank 0
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- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:27 am
Re: criminal charges
Sorry to burst your bubble...
but there really is nothing positive to say.
the fact is you have criminal record, and cannot be trusted.. end of story..
Just my $0.02
but there really is nothing positive to say.
the fact is you have criminal record, and cannot be trusted.. end of story..
Just my $0.02
Rule books are paper - they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
— Ernest K. Gann, 'Fate is the Hunter.
— Ernest K. Gann, 'Fate is the Hunter.
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Brown Bear
- Rank 7
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:17 pm
Re: criminal charges
So, he's been convicted?
Medevac flying requires a Criminal Record check.
So do most types of flying where you are carrying passengers for hire, and in most cases, he's fucked.
There is a truck company in the States who only hires convicted felons. They're doing great. No problems with any of their drivers.
Your buddy should be told the truth, before the flying schools "milks" any more money out of him.
He needs to look into a pardon at the earliest moment.
He probably can't get a passport. He will never get any type of airport clearance. He may even find himself on a national and international "no fly" list as a passenger. TSA, and society in general, is really that fucked up!
He can't even drive a school bus.
Your comment..."he can fly the shit out of an airplane..." has me concerned. We have enough pilots with that attitude already.
Medevac flying requires a Criminal Record check.
So do most types of flying where you are carrying passengers for hire, and in most cases, he's fucked.
There is a truck company in the States who only hires convicted felons. They're doing great. No problems with any of their drivers.
Your buddy should be told the truth, before the flying schools "milks" any more money out of him.
He needs to look into a pardon at the earliest moment.
He probably can't get a passport. He will never get any type of airport clearance. He may even find himself on a national and international "no fly" list as a passenger. TSA, and society in general, is really that fucked up!
He can't even drive a school bus.
Your comment..."he can fly the shit out of an airplane..." has me concerned. We have enough pilots with that attitude already.
The best "Brown Bear" of them all!
Re: criminal charges
That is his only hope.He needs to look into a pardon at the earliest moment.
Re: criminal charges
Maybe he has a slim shot in Northern Canada. Flying in southern Canada sooner or later you'll be crossing the border. On the other hand if I was doing the hiring why would I hire a felon when I have so many other pilots applying for the same job?
Welcome to Redneck Airlines. We might not get you there but we'll get you close!
Re: criminal charges
It is a huge impediment for him. However, it is not insurmountable.
I know of one Canadian airline pilot who, decades ago, was convicted of flying a plane-load of drugs.
You may recall that he later dead-sticked an airbus into the Azores.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pich%C3%A9
PS I'm sure you've never heard of Carlos but in 1988 he dead-sticked a 737 onto a levee after a double-flameout due to water injestion. No one was injured, and the aircraft was put back into service. Not bad for a guy with only one eye: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPn8G7enbF4
I know of one Canadian airline pilot who, decades ago, was convicted of flying a plane-load of drugs.
You may recall that he later dead-sticked an airbus into the Azores.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pich%C3%A9
My buddy Carlos flies airshows and heavy iron and is blind in one eye. Douglas Bader was a fighter pilot in WWII with no legs. Overcoming obstacles like this is possible - and inspirational - but is not easy.Robert Piché (born in 1953, Mont-Joli, Québec) Canadian pilot and captain on Air Transat Flight 236, which he managed to land safely in the Azores on August 24, 2001, following a complete engine failure in both engines due to fuel exhaustion. Piché and his co-pilot were later assigned partial responsibility for the incident.
Piché grew up in Quebec’s remote Gaspé Peninsula and learned to fly as a teenager.
In 1983, Piché served 16 months of a 10-year sentence in prison after a plane he landed solo at a small airfield in Georgia, USA was found to be full of marijuana smuggled from Jamaica. He was pardoned in 2000 and is considered fully rehabilitated. [1]
In 1996, at the age of 43, Air Transat hired Piché. He rose rapidly from co-pilot to captain on Lockheed L-1011s, and transitioned to the Airbus A330 in the spring of 2000.[2]
PS I'm sure you've never heard of Carlos but in 1988 he dead-sticked a 737 onto a levee after a double-flameout due to water injestion. No one was injured, and the aircraft was put back into service. Not bad for a guy with only one eye: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPn8G7enbF4
Re: criminal charges
No comment on the morality of drug trafficking but "your friend" is not f*cked.
There are lots of professional pilots with criminal records.
A criminal record has zero bearing on your ability to obtain a passport once the sentence has been served. Why would the Canadian government care? Getting a visa to visit another country could however be a problem.
I have been a medevac pilot for 11 years and nobody has ever asked if I have criminal record other than convictions related to CARS or Aeronautics Act.
There are lots of professional pilots with criminal records.
A criminal record has zero bearing on your ability to obtain a passport once the sentence has been served. Why would the Canadian government care? Getting a visa to visit another country could however be a problem.
I have been a medevac pilot for 11 years and nobody has ever asked if I have criminal record other than convictions related to CARS or Aeronautics Act.
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bizjets101
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2105
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:44 pm
Re: criminal charges
I recall the TACA story when it happened, but I just watched the video again a couple of days ago!!!
You never fail until you quit trying!!!
Prior to TACA XA-FOU was landing at Shannon after a trans Atlantic flight, with higher than expected winds on April 18/83 in the early morning. Fog was rolling over the field as they were landing behind an Aer Lingus B737.
The Gulfstream had a missed approach, and the airport was declared 'Closed due to fog'. Capt. Ocana informed the tower they didn't have the fuel to make it to their alternate Cork Airport.
Capt. was given directions by road, and landed on Mallows Racecourse, now known as Cork Racecourse. There was no damage to the aircraft, and Lloyds of London, paid for a 3000 foot runway, the aircraft departed on May 23/83.
Capt. Rueben Ocana was a retired Aero Mexico pilot, received awards from Gulfstream regarding this incident, and was invited back to Mallow Ireland in subsequent years as a Honorary Judge in horseshows.
You never fail until you quit trying!!!
Prior to TACA XA-FOU was landing at Shannon after a trans Atlantic flight, with higher than expected winds on April 18/83 in the early morning. Fog was rolling over the field as they were landing behind an Aer Lingus B737.
The Gulfstream had a missed approach, and the airport was declared 'Closed due to fog'. Capt. Ocana informed the tower they didn't have the fuel to make it to their alternate Cork Airport.
Capt. was given directions by road, and landed on Mallows Racecourse, now known as Cork Racecourse. There was no damage to the aircraft, and Lloyds of London, paid for a 3000 foot runway, the aircraft departed on May 23/83.
Capt. Rueben Ocana was a retired Aero Mexico pilot, received awards from Gulfstream regarding this incident, and was invited back to Mallow Ireland in subsequent years as a Honorary Judge in horseshows.
- XA-FOU Gulfstream II.jpg (13.76 KiB) Viewed 4535 times
Re: criminal charges
I know of a friend who had a record. It doesn't matter what for in all honesty. You get a pardon and proceed from there forward. I don't think having a record will prevent you from having a passport ; it may stop you from entering another country.
The friend I am thinking of got his pardon and now flies an Airbus A330 in the sand box. He is doing very well. He flew domestically for several years until he qualified.
I also know of a fellow who served time in jail in the USA for a similar reason and is back flying in Canada.
We all make mistakes some worse than others. Life still goes on.
Cheers
The friend I am thinking of got his pardon and now flies an Airbus A330 in the sand box. He is doing very well. He flew domestically for several years until he qualified.
I also know of a fellow who served time in jail in the USA for a similar reason and is back flying in Canada.
We all make mistakes some worse than others. Life still goes on.
Cheers
Re: criminal charges
His best option will be to get a job in the north for 3 years until a pardon can be obtained. Bush/northern operators seldom, if ever, do background checks.
He's not fu@*ed. Don't disclose the criminal conviction unless asked in the application or interview process.
He should have gotten a better lawyer. Too late now......
He's not fu@*ed. Don't disclose the criminal conviction unless asked in the application or interview process.
He should have gotten a better lawyer. Too late now......
Re: criminal charges
To the original poster...
When you ask about criminal records and flying, it will probably be helpful to understand how people respond.
A great many people who have nothing else to commend themselves to the world like to create a moral black and white between themselves and someone who has a criminal record. It may well be all they can use to distinguish themselves from all the other white faced sheep. "Look at that black face over there". It seems most important to that 60% of Canadians who will privately admit to having at least one criminal offense but who have never been convicted of anything. They have the smug superiority of thinking that at least they were smart enough to have gotten away with it.
You have a criminal record...you can't be trusted. Very likely a comment typical of a person trying to establish some position of authority that cannot be achieved by some genuine measure of merit. Every case I've ever heard of that involved a breach of trust, fraud, or dishonesty was perpetrated by someone who didn't have a criminal record.
It is true that having some types of criminal record involving "moral turpitude" will result in you being denied entry to the US and a pardon supposedly doesn't make much difference. That may or may not make you unable to take up some flying positions that require entry to the US. I don't know what a pardon involves, but it can't be much given that every newspaper has one or two wannabe lawyers promising to do "pardons". There is supposedly some time to wait after conviction. I think three years. As a practical matter, it is difficult to see how it would make any real difference if a person who had an offense three years ago and was pardoned was any better or worse a person than someone who hadn't bothered to get one.
You cannot be denied employment in BC, Manitoba, and one or two other provinces for reason of having a criminal record unless it somehow relates specifically to the job. So being able to enter the US might be a consideration there, but not in a company with a large pilot pool that could schedule you to work only in Canada. Getting a passport has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have a criminal record. Zilch. A passport is proof that you are a citizen of Canada and nothing else. If it were proof that you didn't have a criminal record, you wouldn't need a police check to work abroad. A criminal record does not deny you a Red Pass automatically. It only does so if the nature of the record is such that you could be reasonably considered a threat to aviation safety.
A criminal record does not mean you cannot drive a school bus unless it is for a driving offense, a sexual offense, or a violent offense and is sufficiently close in time that you might reasonably be considered a threat to children. Shoplifting when you were 18 does not stop you from driving a school bus or probably from being accepted into the RCMP.
The reason for all of this is that our society places great store in rehabilitation. It is a much less costly and damaging result than re-offending, the probability of which would be very great if most of the advice you've been given above was actually true. The majority of adult Canadians have committed criminal offenses. If you say you haven't, there is a 60% chance you're a bare faced liar. Fortunately for those 60%, which as far as I can estimate involves almost every pilot I know, less than 1% of crimes are solved and convictions entered.
I believe in rehabilitation. I'm sure that a lot of people alive today are glad that Air Transat management didn't include some of the knuckledraggers that comment on this issue from time to time. I also don't believe in hypocrisy. I do remember growing up in a prairie province and first hearing the word marijuana in my grade 12 year. The guy selling it was soon the coolest kid in school. He's a Court of Queen's Bench judge now.
The bit about the pardon was good advice though. Have no idea what it involves. Good luck to your friend.
When you ask about criminal records and flying, it will probably be helpful to understand how people respond.
A great many people who have nothing else to commend themselves to the world like to create a moral black and white between themselves and someone who has a criminal record. It may well be all they can use to distinguish themselves from all the other white faced sheep. "Look at that black face over there". It seems most important to that 60% of Canadians who will privately admit to having at least one criminal offense but who have never been convicted of anything. They have the smug superiority of thinking that at least they were smart enough to have gotten away with it.
You have a criminal record...you can't be trusted. Very likely a comment typical of a person trying to establish some position of authority that cannot be achieved by some genuine measure of merit. Every case I've ever heard of that involved a breach of trust, fraud, or dishonesty was perpetrated by someone who didn't have a criminal record.
It is true that having some types of criminal record involving "moral turpitude" will result in you being denied entry to the US and a pardon supposedly doesn't make much difference. That may or may not make you unable to take up some flying positions that require entry to the US. I don't know what a pardon involves, but it can't be much given that every newspaper has one or two wannabe lawyers promising to do "pardons". There is supposedly some time to wait after conviction. I think three years. As a practical matter, it is difficult to see how it would make any real difference if a person who had an offense three years ago and was pardoned was any better or worse a person than someone who hadn't bothered to get one.
You cannot be denied employment in BC, Manitoba, and one or two other provinces for reason of having a criminal record unless it somehow relates specifically to the job. So being able to enter the US might be a consideration there, but not in a company with a large pilot pool that could schedule you to work only in Canada. Getting a passport has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have a criminal record. Zilch. A passport is proof that you are a citizen of Canada and nothing else. If it were proof that you didn't have a criminal record, you wouldn't need a police check to work abroad. A criminal record does not deny you a Red Pass automatically. It only does so if the nature of the record is such that you could be reasonably considered a threat to aviation safety.
A criminal record does not mean you cannot drive a school bus unless it is for a driving offense, a sexual offense, or a violent offense and is sufficiently close in time that you might reasonably be considered a threat to children. Shoplifting when you were 18 does not stop you from driving a school bus or probably from being accepted into the RCMP.
The reason for all of this is that our society places great store in rehabilitation. It is a much less costly and damaging result than re-offending, the probability of which would be very great if most of the advice you've been given above was actually true. The majority of adult Canadians have committed criminal offenses. If you say you haven't, there is a 60% chance you're a bare faced liar. Fortunately for those 60%, which as far as I can estimate involves almost every pilot I know, less than 1% of crimes are solved and convictions entered.
I believe in rehabilitation. I'm sure that a lot of people alive today are glad that Air Transat management didn't include some of the knuckledraggers that comment on this issue from time to time. I also don't believe in hypocrisy. I do remember growing up in a prairie province and first hearing the word marijuana in my grade 12 year. The guy selling it was soon the coolest kid in school. He's a Court of Queen's Bench judge now.
The bit about the pardon was good advice though. Have no idea what it involves. Good luck to your friend.
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
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pilotidentity
- Rank 3
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:00 am
Re: criminal charges
With your friend's criminal experience he might fit best as an airline OWNER.
All kidding aside most small operators don't require a criminal check and don't care too much about your past as long as you have some good references and are willing to put up with their bs. Once you have some good experience and some good references that will speak for itself.
Good Luck.
To the poster above that said "you can't be trusted" - you must be very young or haven't met too many people and really got to know them.
All kidding aside most small operators don't require a criminal check and don't care too much about your past as long as you have some good references and are willing to put up with their bs. Once you have some good experience and some good references that will speak for itself.
Good Luck.
To the poster above that said "you can't be trusted" - you must be very young or haven't met too many people and really got to know them.
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bizjets101
- Rank 10
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- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:44 pm
Re: criminal charges
As your friend received a Provincial sentence, he can apply for a pardon 3 years from the date his current sentence expires. You apply to the National Parole Board of Canada - who will render a paper decision within 6 months from when you apply.
At that point your Canadian criminal record would be sealed within Canada. In the USA your conviction will still be listed on their computers, but with your pardon - you are entitled to apply to the US Dept. of Justice for a Waiver to enter the US - this decision also takes 6 months.
At that point your Canadian criminal record would be sealed within Canada. In the USA your conviction will still be listed on their computers, but with your pardon - you are entitled to apply to the US Dept. of Justice for a Waiver to enter the US - this decision also takes 6 months.
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North Shore
- Rank Moderator
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
Re: criminal charges
I think that your 'friend' is a complete dumbass. What sort of tw@t would 'take a charge, basically' (Of a criminal nature - potentially buggering up his future) rather than 'ratting on a friend'? Some friends 
that put a guy in that position..
To paraphrase Cat Driver: anyone can fly the shit out of a plane - it takes judgement and maturity not to...
That being said, we'll assume that your 'friend' has learnt a lesson, and now wants to get on with his life... I've been asked once (by my current employer) if I have a criminal record - and it took me 10 years of flying to get that interview, so I *think* by the time any serious employer comes a-callin' your 'friend' will be able to apply/receive a pardon, or explain away his record as a "never-repeated moment of youthful idiocy for which he is profoundly regretful"
Good luck!
that put a guy in that position.. To paraphrase Cat Driver: anyone can fly the shit out of a plane - it takes judgement and maturity not to...
That being said, we'll assume that your 'friend' has learnt a lesson, and now wants to get on with his life... I've been asked once (by my current employer) if I have a criminal record - and it took me 10 years of flying to get that interview, so I *think* by the time any serious employer comes a-callin' your 'friend' will be able to apply/receive a pardon, or explain away his record as a "never-repeated moment of youthful idiocy for which he is profoundly regretful"
Good luck!
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
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OceansEdge
- Rank 4
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:17 pm
Re: criminal charges
Lots of good advice in these posts, just a couple of notes to add:
Legally the only question any employer is allowed to ask is "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offense for which you have not received a pardon?' And yes, they may legally ask it, and they may legally deny employment based on the answer. Once a pardon is received the criminal record is sealed and that information cannot be released to ANYONE (there are a couple of exceptions, but they are extremely rare one-of cases).
Your friend will require said pardon to negotiate through the processes to be granted an air side red pass at any secure airport in Canada, that's gonna be the stickler - and why employers ask. That said - as others have mentioned - there are opportunities up North etc where be may have gainful flying employment until he qualifies for a pardon.
I do not recommend paying one of these shyster companies advertising in the local papers to process the application. I did one for my ex back in '86 when he needed an old record cleared in order to be bonded for a trucking job (yes any job that asks 'are you bondable?' he also will not be eligible for). The application process isn't that terribly difficult (no more so say than any other government application like a red pass or a passport) - just be sure you cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
http://pbc-clcc.gc.ca/index-eng.shtml Really these companies just like the lawyers who promise to get you an immigration visa, or fight a traffic ticket for you - they charge you an outrageous amount of doss for paperwork you may complete yourself for free.
Make sure your friend reads very carefully all the information at the link I gave - this is the official government info on pardons.
His career is starting out from behind the 8 ball - not impossible - as many have said, but he sure has added a 180-lb weight to any opportunities to get ahead. A pardon is going to be the ONLY way if he wants more out of his career than flying bush.
Legally the only question any employer is allowed to ask is "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offense for which you have not received a pardon?' And yes, they may legally ask it, and they may legally deny employment based on the answer. Once a pardon is received the criminal record is sealed and that information cannot be released to ANYONE (there are a couple of exceptions, but they are extremely rare one-of cases).
Your friend will require said pardon to negotiate through the processes to be granted an air side red pass at any secure airport in Canada, that's gonna be the stickler - and why employers ask. That said - as others have mentioned - there are opportunities up North etc where be may have gainful flying employment until he qualifies for a pardon.
I do not recommend paying one of these shyster companies advertising in the local papers to process the application. I did one for my ex back in '86 when he needed an old record cleared in order to be bonded for a trucking job (yes any job that asks 'are you bondable?' he also will not be eligible for). The application process isn't that terribly difficult (no more so say than any other government application like a red pass or a passport) - just be sure you cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
http://pbc-clcc.gc.ca/index-eng.shtml Really these companies just like the lawyers who promise to get you an immigration visa, or fight a traffic ticket for you - they charge you an outrageous amount of doss for paperwork you may complete yourself for free.
Make sure your friend reads very carefully all the information at the link I gave - this is the official government info on pardons.
His career is starting out from behind the 8 ball - not impossible - as many have said, but he sure has added a 180-lb weight to any opportunities to get ahead. A pardon is going to be the ONLY way if he wants more out of his career than flying bush.
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Liquid Charlie
- Rank (9)
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- Contact:
Re: criminal charges
Maybe I missed it but the RAIC card is where he will have his problems - especially now - so to work until the pardon is issued would need to be a company who does not need a RAIC card as a requirement for employment. This is going to get more restrictive if and when they expand screening to the smaller satellite airports which they have been threatening to do - so as mentioned many times -- not impossible but very restrictive and maybe money spent on an IFR would have been better directed towards floats --
Black Air has no Lift - Extra Fuel has no Weight
ACTPA
ACTPA
Re: criminal charges
Best advice yet. Hide in the north for a few years. Not like he'll be missing any great hiring boom in the very near future. Next time....let the guy who can afford to do the time, do the crime.Liquid Charlie wrote: maybe money spent on an IFR would have been better directed towards floats --
Re: criminal charges
You know I just missed ya too much. Just visiting, now from time to time. Cheers.yycflyguy wrote:Welcome back Doc... couldn't stay away, couldya?
Re: criminal charges
From the BC Human Rights Code...
Discrimination in employment
13 (1) A person must not
(a) refuse to employ or refuse to continue to employ a person, or
(b) discriminate against a person regarding employment or any term or condition of employment
because of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation or age of that person or because that person has been convicted of a criminal or summary conviction offence that is unrelated to the employment or to the intended employment of that person.
You cannot be denied a Red Pass simply because you have a criminal record. It must be an offence that would lead a reasonable person to believe you pose a threat to aviation security that is increased if you are allowed into restricted areas. Both the nature of the offence and the time that has passed since the sentence expired must be taken into account.
A person who has been convicted and served the sentence of the law is on absolutely no different footing in respect to rights as any other person in Canada.
Fortunately for some on here, inability to comprehend simple words in the English language does not stop you from getting a Red Pass or gaining employment as a pilot.
Discrimination in employment
13 (1) A person must not
(a) refuse to employ or refuse to continue to employ a person, or
(b) discriminate against a person regarding employment or any term or condition of employment
because of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation or age of that person or because that person has been convicted of a criminal or summary conviction offence that is unrelated to the employment or to the intended employment of that person.
You cannot be denied a Red Pass simply because you have a criminal record. It must be an offence that would lead a reasonable person to believe you pose a threat to aviation security that is increased if you are allowed into restricted areas. Both the nature of the offence and the time that has passed since the sentence expired must be taken into account.
A person who has been convicted and served the sentence of the law is on absolutely no different footing in respect to rights as any other person in Canada.
Fortunately for some on here, inability to comprehend simple words in the English language does not stop you from getting a Red Pass or gaining employment as a pilot.
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
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RatherBeFlying
- Rank 7
- Posts: 684
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Toronto
Re: criminal charges
Inside Canada, a criminal record is not a major handicap to getting most jobs.
The USA and travel to it is another matter. If you cross the border before your pardon and the US Immigration or Customs guy hits the key for a criminal record check, CPIC will show your Canadian criminal record and it will be in a US database forever. After your pardon, CPIC will not show your criminal record. My advice to others in the same situation is to say out of the US until you have the pardon.
Since the US will shortly be requiring personal information of passengers and drew overflying the US, i.e. to the Caribbean or the Maritimes, I would be careful about overflights.
Remember however that in answering questions from US officials that you may be required to disclose pardoned offenses -- any such disclosure will then be entered permanently on US databases.
The USA and travel to it is another matter. If you cross the border before your pardon and the US Immigration or Customs guy hits the key for a criminal record check, CPIC will show your Canadian criminal record and it will be in a US database forever. After your pardon, CPIC will not show your criminal record. My advice to others in the same situation is to say out of the US until you have the pardon.
Since the US will shortly be requiring personal information of passengers and drew overflying the US, i.e. to the Caribbean or the Maritimes, I would be careful about overflights.
Remember however that in answering questions from US officials that you may be required to disclose pardoned offenses -- any such disclosure will then be entered permanently on US databases.
Re: criminal charges
Tee-hee. You don't think that drug offences are not reasonable grounds to deny someone a Red Pass? It is NOT discrimination if the candidate cannot perform required tasks of the job which include the ability to obtain a passport and enter the US. The US does not look fondly upon drug convictions. Ask anyone who was charged with felony DUI and they will tell you that they are frequently denied entry to the US.Discrimination in employment
13 (1) A person must not
(a) refuse to employ or refuse to continue to employ a person, or
(b) discriminate against a person regarding employment or any term or condition of employment
because of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation or age of that person or because that person has been convicted of a criminal or summary conviction offence that is unrelated to the employment or to the intended employment of that person.
You cannot be denied a Red Pass simply because you have a criminal record. It must be an offence that would lead a reasonable person to believe you pose a threat to aviation security that is increased if you are allowed into restricted areas. Both the nature of the offence and the time that has passed since the sentence expired must be taken into account.
A person who has been convicted and served the sentence of the law is on absolutely no different footing in respect to rights as any other person in Canada.
Fortunately for some on here, inability to comprehend simple words in the English language does not stop you from getting a Red Pass or gaining employment as a pilot.
I am all for second chances but without a full government pardon (if Graham James can do it, ANYONE must be eligible) there is NO WAY that a person with a drug conviction can expect to be successful candidate for employment.
Re: criminal charges
Did you read this thread?yycflyguy wrote:Tee-hee. You don't think that drug offences are not reasonable grounds to deny someone a Red Pass? It is NOT discrimination if the candidate cannot perform required tasks of the job which include the ability to obtain a passport and enter the US. The US does not look fondly upon drug convictions. Ask anyone who was charged with felony DUI and they will tell you that they are frequently denied entry to the US.Discrimination in employment
13 (1) A person must not
(a) refuse to employ or refuse to continue to employ a person, or
(b) discriminate against a person regarding employment or any term or condition of employment
because of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation or age of that person or because that person has been convicted of a criminal or summary conviction offence that is unrelated to the employment or to the intended employment of that person.
You cannot be denied a Red Pass simply because you have a criminal record. It must be an offence that would lead a reasonable person to believe you pose a threat to aviation security that is increased if you are allowed into restricted areas. Both the nature of the offence and the time that has passed since the sentence expired must be taken into account.
A person who has been convicted and served the sentence of the law is on absolutely no different footing in respect to rights as any other person in Canada.
Fortunately for some on here, inability to comprehend simple words in the English language does not stop you from getting a Red Pass or gaining employment as a pilot.
I am all for second chances but without a full government pardon (if Graham James can do it, ANYONE must be eligible) there is NO WAY that a person with a drug conviction can expect to be successful candidate for employment.
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
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OceansEdge
- Rank 4
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:17 pm
Re: criminal charges
A cursory search shows no such provisions in the Canadian Charter of Human Rights - and as aviation falls under the Federal Labour code not provincial - I'd be willing to guess that would be the one to apply.
But even presuming you're correct - there's enough guys out there who can't seem to find that first flying job without a criminal record it'd be a hard slog in court to prove that that was why they didn't hire you. And I'd suspect he doesn't really have the time or funds to try and force a company to hire him through a human rights tribunal.
Same thing goes for the red Pass - convicted of drug smuggling is damned well a fine reason to deny a security clearance. And even if it wasn't - is it worth the fight to try and prove discrimination that may well be justified?
Lets be pragmatic here shall we? By the time enough time has passed for the TSA to consider a drug smuggling conviction no longer of concern he'd probably be eligible for the pardon anyway. Make plans to fly somewhere where such things are less of a consideration while you wait out the period to be eligible for the pardon. Then get the pardon. Once that paper's in his hand he no longer need worry so much.
But even presuming you're correct - there's enough guys out there who can't seem to find that first flying job without a criminal record it'd be a hard slog in court to prove that that was why they didn't hire you. And I'd suspect he doesn't really have the time or funds to try and force a company to hire him through a human rights tribunal.
Same thing goes for the red Pass - convicted of drug smuggling is damned well a fine reason to deny a security clearance. And even if it wasn't - is it worth the fight to try and prove discrimination that may well be justified?
Lets be pragmatic here shall we? By the time enough time has passed for the TSA to consider a drug smuggling conviction no longer of concern he'd probably be eligible for the pardon anyway. Make plans to fly somewhere where such things are less of a consideration while you wait out the period to be eligible for the pardon. Then get the pardon. Once that paper's in his hand he no longer need worry so much.
Re: criminal charges
If he took the wrap for a friend, his decision making skills are not very good,if he was the one selling drugs than his decision making skills are terrible so let him sleep in the bed he made.
