Deadheading and duty day

[NovaBoy]

Hey there,

I've been searching thru the CAR's with no luck, and was wondering if someone had an answer to this possible situation.

Background first: I work for a private operator with jet aircraft.

If I were to deadhead on airlines to pick up an aircraft where would my duty day begin? This is not addressed in our ops manual, nor can I find it in the CAR's. Corporate aviation is a little vague at best.

We have a 14hr duty day, does it begin when I check in for my deadhead flight, or when I get ready for my flight in the company aircraft. Or is it just a grey area not addressed in corporate aviation.

Thanks

[Big Pistons Forever]

I do not care what the regs sort of kinda say/hint at...... BPF's duty day starts when I am required to show up at a time and place specified by my employer. If that is gate 44, 30 mins prior to boarding then that is where the clock starts. So far I have not had an employer that has any problem with that.

[Changes in Latitudes]

Unless you are in a suitable accommodation for rest, that clock should be ticking. We do it that way, and you should settle for no less.

[snowbear]

It totally depends on whether the dead head is required by the company or just for your convenience. If you have been assigned by the company to get on an airline and then operate your own airplane the clock starts with your first flight check in. If you are comuting back to your airplane because you went home in the middle of a trip the story changes. The company has not assigned you any duties until you report for your operating leg so that is when your duty day starts.

[NovaBoy]

Thanks guys, the DH is required for work, and no I wouldn't do it, I believe that duty day starts when I check in for my DH flight. However from a regs/legal issue is this addressed anywhere. We had an issue pop up here, and I'm trying to find an answer.

[jakfrost]

If it is left to 'common sense', ( the most 'un-common' sense of all ), lacking written documentation, the majority vote would be, I'm sure, that 'snowbear' is absolutely correct...

"It totally depends on whether the dead head is required by the company or just for your convenience. If you have been assigned by the company to get on an airline and then operate your own airplane the clock starts with your first flight check in. If you are comuting back to your airplane because you went home in the middle of a trip the story changes. The company has not assigned you any duties until you report for your operating leg so that is when your duty day starts."

Thats the way we do it...

[CD]

NovaBoy...

You will not find any information related to your specific situation in the CARs as corporate aviation is still operating under the provisions of the CBAA POC Program Manual until at least April 2011:

8. FATIGUE MANAGEMENT
Fatigue Management System

8.1 Every aircraft operator must, in their operations manual, establish systems and procedures to manage flight crew member fatigue and establish fatigue countermeasures, so that flight crew members do not suffer from chronic or acute fatigue which would prevent them from discharging their duties in a safe manner.

8.2 To meet the requirement in subsection 8.1 of this standard, the operator shall:
a. use a comprehensive risk analysis process to develop and maintain the fatigue management system;
b. use the provisions contained in Appendix 1 of this standard; or
c. a combination of a. and b. above.

8.3 No aircraft operator shall assign a flight crew member for flight time and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment if the operator’s fatigue countermeasures have not been complied with or the flight crew member otherwise declares that he/she is suffering from fatigue.

8.4 It is recommended that the operator’s fatigue management system take into account the non-flight crew duties assigned to persons who have flight crew duties, and should include fatigue management considerations for other aircraft crew members and maintenance personnel.

CBAA POC Program Manual

[NovaBoy]

Thanks CD, that's what I thought.