How long does it take on average, from the point a Tier 2 pilot joins Central Mountain Air as a rampie until the pilot is trained and put in the right seat of a B1900D? I know there is probably a number of factors that come into play, but if anybody could give me a rough estimate or an example if they have or know anybody who has gone through the process.

Also, does anybody know if it is possible to apply for a rampie position while in Flight School so after flight school I would already have 2 years with the company? I am planning on going to Mount Royal University for their aviation diploma, and I am wondering if time and scheduling would allow for this as well. Thanks

IIRC, Tier 2 time doesn't start until you've got your CPL/IFR/IATRA.. I'm sure you'll be able to find time once or twice a week to work the ramp - question is, would that time be better spent studying?

North Shore wrote:IIRC, Tier 2 time doesn't start until you've got your CPL/IFR/IATRA.. I'm sure you'll be able to find time once or twice a week to work the ramp - question is, would that time be better spent studying?

Probably if it doesn't count toward Tier 2. But even so, wouldn't working for the company for two or more years make it possible for a new graduate to get into the right seat a bit quicker?

jackg737,

I noticed you are getting started in this industry and are trying to get fully informed, which is good. Here is my advice- CMA is a stretch. They have many, many applicants and reletively few spots. Many years ago I tried to get on with CMA. I had a bunch of internal references (one from the assistant chief pilot) and I never got hired.

While you are in school, look for a summer ramp job somewhere crappy, where fewer other aspiring pilot are willing to go. This will help your career in a couple ways.
1) You will see what actually is required to make it in this business.
2) If you work hard (I mean hard), you will make friends who can get you flying jobs in the future.
3) You can prove your worth to a potential employer, and if you're lucky, will get a flying job with them when your CPL is done.
4) An employer will be eager to hire you before you have a CPL because he know's you're not looking for a flying job and will leave ASAP.
5) Even if you don't get a job with this employer, you may get a job with another employer who has heard of your hard work.

Target areas with lots of flying and a small population. Think Thompson, Sioux Lookout, etc.

jackg737, I'll second Bede's opinion too.

I can understand your desire to get your career fast tracked; but I believe you'll find your appreciation of past experiences will grow exponentially the further along you're toward your intended goal. And you'll be the better pilot for it; don't miss out, you'll find this career is more of a journey than a destination.

To add places, westward of Bede: La Ronge, Buffalo Narrows, Stony Rapids, Lac La Biche, Slave Lake, Grand Prairie, Medicine Hat, Ft. St. John, etc. etc. etc.

Good luck.

Okay, thanks guys for the suggestions. I appreciate it.

If I was you, I'd look for a rampie type job that can take you from your 250 fresh Commercial/IFR to when you'll be applying to the big players in Canadian aviation: AC, WJ, Transat, Jazz, etc....

There was a thread on here about Perimeter recently, and there were some really good comments by Perimeter people about how decent a place it is to work. CMA too has that potential - if you have the licenses and have put in the time, you can go 1900 FO to CA, and then from there, it is up to you what is next.

I'd hesitate to go to a place so far off the beaten path like someone above suggested. You might have a quicker transition to the flight line, but your ultimate goal is to be getting into a multi-engined turbine aircraft and light single time is almost detracting from where you want to be. There's no guarantees that with 1000hrs, somebody will stick you in the RH seat of their King Air. They'd rather promote their own guys. Aim to be a rampie at a place that you'd like to fly at. I know there are several good charter operators at YYC that have equipment from turbine twins up to the corporate heavy iron.

WestCoastPilot wrote:If I was you, I'd look for a rampie type job that can take you from your 250 fresh Commercial/IFR to when you'll be applying to the big players in Canadian aviation: AC, WJ, Transat, Jazz, etc....

There was a thread on here about Perimeter recently, and there were some really good comments by Perimeter people about how decent a place it is to work. CMA too has that potential - if you have the licenses and have put in the time, you can go 1900 FO to CA, and then from there, it is up to you what is next.

I'd hesitate to go to a place so far off the beaten path like someone above suggested. You might have a quicker transition to the flight line, but your ultimate goal is to be getting into a multi-engined turbine aircraft and light single time is almost detracting from where you want to be. There's no guarantees that with 1000hrs, somebody will stick you in the RH seat of their King Air. They'd rather promote their own guys. Aim to be a rampie at a place that you'd like to fly at. I know there are several good charter operators at YYC that have equipment from turbine twins up to the corporate heavy iron.

Thanks for the advice as well. There is probably many ways to enter the industry. When the time is right I probably will have to figure out which is best based on the current economy and other things.

Bede and that little preppy, aileron, are both bang on. One place you should be looking is Air Tindi in Yellowknife. No interline agreements, and it will take you about 2 years to get into the cockpit. But you get paid relatively well as a rampie or in Ops (in comparison with other companies, I mean) and the spirit & morale are good.

Yellowknife is a great place to live & work, and the cameraderie is good. It's like that in most of the smaller comunities (Yk is actually an incorporated city). The company has a recognizable career path, and you WILL progress provided you're not a total lamer. And they are fault-tolerant. All you gotta do is follow the rules, and do what they say. They have a solid SMS which everyone is involved with.

You can't go wrong by working there. Incidentally, it's not ONLY a matter of hard work in this industry...you have to keep thinking and be "ahead of the game" all the time.

Jack
There are more companies then CMA, and your working the ramp idea while in school is a good idea. I know people that did that, paid their dues while getting their licenses and moved in to a machine straight away, or damn close to it.

Target a company that has small twins/singles and has a habit from hiring low time and promoting from within.

In the absence of finding a aviation job, my best advice is to get a job that pays ok, and bank as much money as possible in preparation for your "character building years".

Good luck.

KAG is right on the money. Singles and twins should be the company you target. Getting on at CMA is no good to you if you can't upgrade to capt til you have 3000 hrs (ATPL)... thus not getting ANY PIC til after ATPL.

Whatever you choose, best of luck. Hard work, determination and always doing your best. It's a long road, and it might look like some other guys might be 'passing' you... but keep at it, and stay focused. It will pay off.

Cheers.

I would be willing to bet that CMA and Georgian are as difficult to get on with as AC or WJ; the only difference is the applicant's are less experienced.

Tindi has singles, twins, and co-pilots. You start in the right seat, move to a single, then a twin. They also have an INCUS program in the Ops Manual. Occasionally a pilot bypasses the Caravan route.

Thanks for all the replies from everyone. Does anybody if their is a company in Calgary preferably based at CYYC but CYBW as well that would hire somebody still in school? I am interested in Tindi, but if there is some company closer to where I am going to school and where I will go to college, then I think that would be a better option.

Thanks

Dude, you're in YYC... show some initiative: Put together a resume, head out to CYYC, pull your pants up, turn your cel off, turn your baseball cap to face forward on your head and bang on doors. If no-one hires you the first time around, do it again in three weeks, and every three weeks thereafter until someone gives you a job.

try boreks paint shop all others do mostly contrails stuff in YYC no place for a low timer.

Aviator,

I think you need to take a break from this website. Your grammar is getting worse. Hopefully you're just hitting the sauce or something over the holidays OTZ I'm thankful you're not a real pilot.


JJJ

jackg737 wrote:Thanks for all the replies from everyone. Does anybody if their is a company in Calgary preferably based at CYYC but CYBW as well that would hire somebody still in school? I am interested in Tindi, but if there is some company closer to where I am going to school and where I will go to college, then I think that would be a better option.

Thanks

Borek +1.

Okay thanks. And do you guys think it would be worth it to do this is grade 10 or should i wait a couple of years more?

jackg737 wrote:Okay thanks. And do you guys think it would be worth it to do this is grade 10 or should i wait a couple of years more?

....
Umm...maybe you should graduate from high school first, since that's typically a prerequisite for any job with an airline, regardless of whether it's going to lead to a flying position. They're also not likely to hire someone who isn't even old enough to hold a commercial licence and who can only work part-time.

Nice to see someone who is driven at that young an age. Sure apply, whats the worst that can happen? Oh you land a job at Borek doing doing grunt work
Good luck, keep up that attitude, but don't forget to live a little along the way.

jackg737 wrote:Okay thanks. And do you guys think it would be worth it to do this is grade 10 or should i wait a couple of years more?

Do it now. This industry is all about contacts. DOn't apply for something above your level ("I want to be a twin otter captain"). Be happy mopping floors because it's a lot better than McDonalds. Eventually as you get older, gain experience, you may be able to move up.

Good job for planning ahead. I did the same thing when I was a teen and had my first CPL job at 18.

Bede wrote: Be happy mopping floors because it's a lot better than McDonalds.

How do you figure? McD's has a professional development program, health benefits, etc.

Okay sounds good. Does anybody know an airline or charter/medivac or something that would hire a 16 year old to do anything like sweeping floors? I can only work at CYYC, because Calgary Transit doesn't go out to Spring Bank.

North Shore wrote:Dude, you're in YYC... show some initiative: Put together a resume, head out to CYYC, pull your pants up, turn your cel off, turn your baseball cap to face forward on your head and bang on doors. If no-one hires you the first time around, do it again in three weeks, and every three weeks thereafter until someone gives you a job.

Initiative would include picking up the phone book, turning to the yellow pages section, and looking under Airlines or Air charters. The addresses there should give you an idea of whether they are located at CYYC. If not, a quick phone call will tell you. You'll have to pick up the phone in any case, so you know who to address your covering letter/resume to.


Ok, I'm giving you a little bit of attitude here, and I should perhaps cut you some slack, given your age... However, this is pretty basic job-hunting stuff, and it feels to me like you are expecting us to spoon-feed you company names and contact people without doing any work yourself. Ask your parents or teachers (guidance counsellor?) for the basic help, and then come back to us with the more specialised questions like "Does anyone know the name of the HR person at XYZ company? I can't find it anywhere."

Good Luck.