Flight training at Confederation College

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CD
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Flight training at Confederation College

#1 Post by CD » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:13 am

Flight training at college

Tb News Source
Web Posted: 4/4/2005 7:30:48 PM

It's what one college official describes as the best kept secret in Thunder Bay. Over 300 students are currently enrolled in Confederation College's Aviation centre. Along with learning to fly, students are also learning how to fix and manufacture planes.

Confederation College's Aviation Centre offers the biggest float plane training operation in the world and that is one of the many things college officials say makes it unique. Along with teaching students how to fly, it is the only facility with three other aviation programs offered under one roof.

First year flight management students work to get their private license, and in second year, work towards their commercial license. Graduates normally go on to jobs as flight instructors or working for tourist outfitters, but from there, can move on to bigger airline positions. Coordinator Sid Mccrea says though its a tough program, anyone that really wants to fly....can.

Dean-School of Aviation, Rick Potter says after a slump after 9 11 and Sars, the aviation industry is now picking up.

http://www.tbsource.com/Localnews/index.asp?cid=74122
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#2 Post by . . » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:53 pm

they screwed their students out of their ski time this winter and won't compensate them in any way. That's total crap if you ask me. If they students signed on the dotted line to pay X dollars for X training then they should get it. If the students decided to pay the college X-x dollars they'd screem bloody murder. Why is it fair that the college can give them X-x training?
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#3 Post by maniac779 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:06 pm

Endless,

You hit it right on the head. In my opinion that is completely unacceptable. What if Sault College told their current second year students that they would not be receiving a mult-ifr, and they would not be getting any compensation for it. You can bet the college would have a situation on their hands. I wonder if the government that is supplying Confederation with subsidization for their flight program is aware this is occurring.

Furthermore, I would also be curious as to where the money that was allotted for that flight training is ending up?

Of course that’s just for the ski flying... when a student arrives at the college with a private license, the amount of flight training they receive is reduced, sometimes substantially. Where is all the leftover money going from those who enrolled with private licenses?

I think it may be time for the government to re evaluate which colleges should be receiving government subsidization.
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#4 Post by scotothedoublet » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:12 pm

I went to Confed back in the day and also missed out on my ski training. Comparing missing out on 10 hrs of tail/ski time with a M-IFR rating is a poor comparison. If the wx doesn't cooperate and the lakes thaw, what can the college really do. The college itself doesn't save any money. The ski plane still flies (C180). The student just ends up banging the circuit and doing low approaches to the lakes for their 5 hrs. I was happy to get more taildragger time instead. After paying a whopping $3400 for a CPL and 25 hrs on floats, I wasn't really in a position to complain. It's not like 5 hrs of ski time was going to make a difference in the job hunt.
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#5 Post by water wings » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:22 pm

i am curious...it is this year they missed out on the ski flying? correct me if i'm wrong, but wasnt there was a whole lotta snow in that area this year??...i squeezed in 3 good days on skis with only about 6 inches of snow left out in the Ottawa Valley... what was the reason given to the students?
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#6 Post by just clearing the trees » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:24 pm

Scotothedoublet is right, it's not going to make a difference in the job hunt, and comparing it to a MIFR is silly. And maniac779, you're not the first person that's missed out on ski training in the history of Con College so you can quit your whining. With the class sizes now, ski flying is not a top priority, just getting everyone through on time is challenge enough.
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#7 Post by maniac779 » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:53 am

Bottom line is that you shouldn't advertise something you can't deliver.
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#8 Post by . . » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:21 am

you're paying for the training, if they can't give you the ski time due to wx or ice conditions or whatever else you should be given something in lieu. Did the students get anything at all?
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#9 Post by Right Seat Captain » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:29 am

endless wrote:you're paying for the training, if they can't give you the ski time due to wx or ice conditions or whatever else you should be given something in lieu. Did the students get anything at all?
I'm paying for the training, you're paying, we're all paying, that is if you live in Ontario. The students are paying tuition which is supposed to cover the academic stuff, such as classroom instruction. If the students don't get all the flying promised, they should not see a penny of the money allocated for flight training, otherwise that could become one good scam.

I do agree however that it should be known where the money is going instead of the ski-plane flying. But this is a problem with all of Ontario's Universities and Colleges. They are one of the last organizations to not have to conform to the freedom of information act. They use public money, but have no requriement to report where it goes. It is being lobbied to change this policy.

If the skiplane training became tailwheel time, I don't really see the issue. The students still got the same amount of flying, they still get all the licences and ratings that were promised. I don't know enough to say for sure, but could it be possible that the ski-plane flying thing started off as a special feature that just became a regular occurance, and has now become expected? When I've read advertisements for Confed's program, I don't recall specifically hearing that the students will get ski-plane experience, only the fact they have a ski-plane.
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#10 Post by . . » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:01 pm

i'm definately not saying the students should see any money over this. I am saying that they should have something in lieu. This might be more float, or tailwheel or just circuit time. The college is being given money by the government for this training, and if the students aren't using up this money then I have issues.
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#11 Post by Adanac » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:18 pm

Endless you have a point. I am just not sure why it is an issue now? Has the program changed from 96'?

That is when I graduated and I was one of the fortunate ones that got my 5 hrs of ski time in. Mind you it was mostly slush work, which in the future kept me out of trouble many a time. But the others that graduated in my class that didn't get the 5 hrs on skis the staff made sure they got extra time just booting around the circuit in QNN. As far as I am concerned, that is the best time you can get in a 180. Any tail dragger time on pavement is the most important time you can have compared with floats or skis. I have a ton of time on the 185 and by far the most challenging flying was the wheel stuff!

I hope the Flight Management Program is still making sure their students are getting the time. If anything.. they should bump the time spent on the 180 on wheel/skis to 10 or even 15 hrs! They don't just do 5hrs on floats in the summer, they do 25hrs! So why not the same in the winter? Bush pilots don't just fly floats.

Oh and Congrats to Sid being the new Co-Ordinator.. I can't believe it :shock: ! He told me over a beer one night that he would never sit in that chair! LOL.. good for you Sid! All the best!

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#12 Post by Cat Driver » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:26 pm

" I have a ton of time on the 185 and by far the most challenging flying was the wheel stuff! "

Adanac :

How so? The 185 on wheels is just another tail wheel airplane but when put on floats there are many more things to learn than straight wheel plane flying.

I would be interested in why you found it to be the most challenging, was your instructor afraid of a 185 on wheels and the fear crossed over to you without you being aware of it?

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#13 Post by just clearing the trees » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:35 pm

The instructors that teach on the 180 there are very experienced and have tons of bush time on all sorts of aircraft including tailwheel. I know that none of them have any problems handling that airplane. I've flown in it with them.
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#14 Post by Cat Driver » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:55 pm

O.K. so why would anyone think it is harder to fly a 185 on wheels than to fly floats, to me it just does not compute.


You can check someone out on a 185 on wheels in far less time than it takes to teach them how to fly it on floats.

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#15 Post by Adanac » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:00 pm

I never thought I would go head to head with Cat on any subject but here goes:

From my experience on the 185, I found that in wheel config, it was the most demanding and here is why. While flying on floats and skis, landings and takeoffs were done 95% of the time into wind. Of course there are situations where this is not possible due to location, takeoff room available, bla bla bla. When flying out of airports the wind is not always straight down the pipe. You can find yourself in a good crosswind, then throw in braking and directional control once on the runway, any tail wheel plane can be a handfull!

That is not saying that doing the same on floats is a breeze, just that I, ME, found it to be easier than on wheels. Most of my time on the 180/185s is on floats and I have had my share of "difficult" days. Just over all, my vote is that flying 180/185 on wheels is the trickiest.

Oh and to reply to the questions about the instructors. All the instructors were top notch. There was no problems with the way they approached instructing flying the 180. I could not have had better teachers.


Bring on the comments........................ :roll:

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#16 Post by Cat Driver » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:40 pm

Adanac :

Surprise, surprise I understand where you are coming from..

..everyone has a slightly different slant on things and we all find some things just come more natural than others.

So no big deal Adanac, I was just wondreing why you felt that way about the 185 on wheels vs floats..

Sometimes I probably word things in the wrong tone, so will you forgive me for seeming to be so intolerant? :D

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#17 Post by Adanac » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:14 pm

Hey Cat,

No harm done. You posed at good question. I am glad that you were happy with the answer.

Glad you didn't ask me about the technique I use for cross wind landings on glassy water..!

Cheers,

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#18 Post by Cat Driver » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:55 pm

You shouldn't leave yourself open like that.

Hell you were doing O.K. the way it was.. :D
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#19 Post by Redneck_pilot86 » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:36 pm

water wings wrote:i am curious...it is this year they missed out on the ski flying? correct me if i'm wrong, but wasnt there was a whole lotta snow in that area this year??...i squeezed in 3 good days on skis with only about 6 inches of snow left out in the Ottawa Valley... what was the reason given to the students?
Yea, it was this year...the excuse I heard was that there was TOO MUCH snow, so a snobile would have to be sent out to pack down an area first, and it wasn't worth it, and Con College does not have any snomobiles in the fleet.

I'm in first year so it doesn't affect me this year, but I did hear that rumour going around dispatch.
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#20 Post by CF-RYE » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:06 am

They should have sent the 2nd years out there with snowshoes to pack a trail if they wanted the time that bad. That would have been some practical experience they could use.
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#21 Post by CLguy » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:36 am

Well Waterwings with a whole lot of snow comes a whole lot of slush. This winter in Northwestern Ontario was one of the worst for slush on the lakes that I have seen for a long time.

I was in Thunder Bay last week and they are giving the 2nd year students some 180 time on wheels but nothing on skiis. By the time the conditions got good enough to do some ski work, the season was over. We went from full blown winter to summer in about 2 weeks. I thought we would be on the lakes until mid May but here we are mid April and most of the ice is gone.
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