How to get more young people in a cockpit?

[Lost Lake]

Wow!!! I just watched a CBC news program. According to aviation college teachers, if we don't pump more students through the schools, there is going to be a huge shortage of pilots world wide, including Canada. Oh my gosh, it's not that there aren't enough unemployed/underemployed pilots, it's that we have too many under employed instructors/colleges trying to justify their jobs. Funny, it was all about a shortage of air line pilots world wide. Maybe if they didn't charge huge PPC's and local nationality for Jars Canadians could fly world wide.

Media are such huge assholes. They take inaccurate information and try to sensationalize stories. If I didn't have thousands of hours to be lucky enough to fly floats, I could barely get a job as a rampy, with the chance to upgrade in 2 years to a 206.

I wonder how many wannabe pilots are going to see that news clip and get roped into joining the "DREAM"!!

[Changes in Latitudes]

There's no shortage of people wanting to be actors. They move to Hollywood, work at restaurants, or whatever they can get and wait for their big break. Everyone knows what the odds are of making it big, but every last one of them think they're they one to fill Leonardo Dicaprio's shoes.

Same goes with aviation, there's no telling people. Can you blame these colleges from behaving like that?

[petpad]

...but every last one of them think they're they one to fill Leonardo Dicaprio's shoes. ...Same goes with aviation...

Well looking on the bright side, the odds of making it as an airline pilot are a heck of a lot better than filling DiCaprio's shoes..!

[Tim]

this informative article was just posted too

Looming pilots shortage feared
Last Updated: Monday, December 20, 2010 | 11:34 PM ET Comments0Recommend0
CBC News
The aviation industry may face a shortage of pilots, Boeing executives say.

Over the next two decades, the U.S. maker of commercial jetliners is projecting that there will be an estimated 30,000 more planes in the sky worldwide and that 466,650 pilots will be needed to fly them.

In Canada and the United States alone — where baby boomer pilots are getting ready to retire — 97,350 new pilots will be required, the Chicago-based company said.

"If we wait to the last minute as an industry we will indeed face that shortage," said Roei Ganzarski, the chief customer officer for Boeing Training and Flight Services.

The shortage is already happening in some countries. Scroll down any airline job board and there are dozens of pilot positions advertised in Asia, including China, Korea and Vietnam, and in the Middle East.

The United Arab Emirates isn't waiting for pilots to apply. It came to Canada recently to recruit pilots from domestic airlines, offering big salaries and benefits. But the airline didn't allow CBC cameras inside to hear its pitch.

"What we don't want is for organizations to feel the need to fill that demand — to fill that shortage — by putting in maybe less competent, less proficient pilots," Ganzarski said.

Boeing is building more than a dozen flight simulators, with the majority of them heading overseas to China and the Middle East. All of them will help airlines train more pilots.

Industry officials said the simulator is an effective teaching tool, which helps fast-track new pilots without taking short cuts on safety.

"I think training programs are there to make sure we elevate and bring whatever skill level pilot that we encounter to that high benchmark or that high standard," said Jeff Roberts, group president of civil simulation products, training and services at CAE Inc.

But it has been difficult to recruit young people to become pilots. It takes up to five years to acquire the skills to fly commercially and many years after that before pilots can fly in the big leagues .

"It is difficult for the common person off the street to show up at a school and say 'I want to be a pilot for a career,'" said Capt. Domenic Di Iorio, CAE's instructor who tests pilots in Montreal. "It's very expensive."



Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010 ... z18iaw9Ou9

[HighDreams]

I was watching CBC tonight and they were talking about the expected shortage of pilots around the world. I know there are shortages, butI haven't researched to confirm CBC's figures. They said over the next few years Canada will need an additional 90 something thousand pilots. There will be 30,000 (I believe was the number) more aircraft in the skies. World wide there will be a shortage of 400,000 or so pilots. It's a good time to be getting into the industry. I will be starting my flight training either in May at Algonquin College or September either at Conestoga or Brampton Flight Centre (that's a different topic). Anyways, it was mentioned that many young adults coming out of high-school don't consider being a pilot; the big push teachers give you is university and college. My view is a lot of peopl don't realize that being a pilot can be a career. I believe out of my graduating class last school year, I was the only person who's career goal is to be a pilot, and that's out of about 300 or 400 students. Yes becoming a pilot is a pretty penny; so is university. The road to the airlines is bumpy, but it will pay of. I look at it as trying to get in the NHL. You play hockey your whole life. You start out in Timbit hockey, rep, CHL, AHL, then the NHL. You're playing hockey but at different levels. In the aviation industry you're flying different aircraft and flying to different places trying to get to the airlines, but you're flying for the most part, your whole way there. This can turn people away. My view is if your passion is to be an airline pilot don't jump into the industry unless your passion is truly to fly, if not, it will be a long misserable ride. So what's it gonna take to get young adults to fly? Government incentives? More awareness of this career and lifestyle? Let the debate begin

[ogc]

no.

[Darkhorse]

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/1221258968/ID=1705121633

Again I am disappointed by the media. They fail to ask the real question. WHy do students not want to be pilots? Because the pay is on average low, the conditions on average are not great and the sad truth is that there is a very small percentage of pilots that make good money. The general public has no idea that the average pilot makes a very average wage between $25000-60,000 a year. In this day and age that is not a lot of cash.

[modi13]

I look at it as trying to get in the NHL. You play hockey your whole life. You start out in Timbit hockey, rep, CHL, AHL, then the NHL. You're playing hockey but at different levels. In the aviation industry you're flying different aircraft and flying to different places trying to get to the airlines, but you're flying for the most part, your whole way there.

Except with hockey, you're not dropping $70000 to learn how to play, and in the end you'll make a million or more a year. However, the analogy is apt in that the vast majority of people who get into hockey never make it to the big leagues, and most end up coaching in the minors for peanuts or quit the game altogether. The entire CBC segment was crap; nothing they said was true. It was a bunch of spin put together by instructors who want to get more students during lean times. Take a good look around this board and you'll get a good feeling for just how many pilots are unemployed, and likely will be for some time, and how rough it can be even when you get a job.

[EPR]

After watching that, i threw up a bit in my mouth!

[kingoftheskies]

Pilots are annoying cynical jerks until they get the job they want, then they calm down. If your kid is an annoying little prick, he or she would probably make a good pilot, and should come back around in their early 30's.

[FL020]

Well said Darkhorse,

Nothing like spending +6 years in the field, end up earning a respectable salary in a small airline operation, then finally getting hired at the career airline of your choice and heading back down to the oh..... 38,000 dollar range for another few years.

Hopefully the majors in Canada see this coming and boost up the starting salaries!

[tsgas]

Reminds me of the TV program "Hustle". These flying schools have been playing the same con since the mid 70's.

[mattedfred]

Hopefully the majors in Canada see this coming and boost up the starting salaries!

That will be the last thing they do unless unionized pilot groups choose to spend more of their limited negotiating capitol on starting salaries. It will not be the airlines decision to do so.

It is less expensive and more efficient to attempt the following:

1. Make your current staff work more. (reduce minimum days off to the absolute legal minimum, increase duty days to the absolute legal maximum, reduce rest periods to the absolute legal minimum)
2. Make your current staff stay at work longer. (i.e. increase retirement ages or remove mandatory retirement)
3. Reduce non-revenue generating work to a minimum. (i.e. reduce training to the absolute legal minimum and convince the regulator to further reduce those minimums)
4. Reduce the minimum experience required for new hires in order to expand your hiring to pool. (i.e. CPL and IATRA written for 705)
5. Lobby the regulator to reduce the minimum legal requirement to operate as an FO at the 705 level.

IF you have successfully completed these 5 steps then you may be forced to pay a little more but not much.

Sad but true.

[dcabrown]

Just some thoughts here, please correct me if im wrong.

The last time people thought there was going to be a pilot shortage, it never materialized because you had a one-two punch of boomer pilots flying longer than originally anticipated and a reduction in capacity due to industry consolidation?

But if those boomers eventually retire and they WILL at some point, that has to be a positive for younger pilots right? Obviously this won't happen tomorrow or five-ten years from now, but in the time frame the Boeing official mentioned, "two decades", if flight school enrollment keeps declining, and assuming industry capacity is the same (thats obviously a wild assumption), then it must follow that there will be a shortage of pilots.

It sort of reminds me of how the university/trades thinking has gone the last few decades. My (boomer) parents and friends parents always encouraged me to go to university b/c it was at least perceived that university educated folk made substantially more money than the "trades" and maybe for a period of time that was true. But Fast forward today after a generation of this mentality and the pendulum has swung the other way... there is a glut of University educated grads who are back at their summer jobs stocking cereal boxes, making $17/hr, and thats after slamming $80,000 into their training/education (I'm sure those figures ring a chord with some younger CPL's out there, look familiar?)

And guess who are the ones raking in the big bucks? The guys who know how to use a welding torch out in Calgary. A few years back i was speaking to an official at Enbridge and he said they pay their pipe contractors up to $1000/DAY, yes, PER DAY) to get jobs done because there was such a massive shortage of skilled labour and such huge pressure from their investors to get projects completed.

Most "markets" - and that includes labour markets, go through cycles that can last up to a few decades. Just saying that maybe the article isnt all that wrong, just written too early and obviously too sensationalized (then again, sensationalizing is how the get paid so can u blame them?)

Then again, maybe I dont know what im talking about... would appreciate some feedback tho bc I always find it interesting the huge disconnect between the public perception of the aviation industry and the reality of it...

[sandbagger757]

For anyone who is considering being a pilot for their chosen career; think long and hard. I've been fortunate enough to see the world and make some good money doing what I loved to do. I've accumulated 12,000 hours, flown some pretty nice airplanes and met some great people. However, I've had too many "ups-and-downs". Recently the airlline I worked for went bankrupt, the fourth I've had to endure since 1989. To pay the bills during the in-between years I've had to drive a taxi, deliver mail, pick garbage, cut grass and shovel snow to mention a few. Now at 47 years of age, 9 months of being unemployed and my EI about to run out, it looks like I might have to start drawing from my RRSP's to pay the mortgage and bills because there is no work in the small town I live in. In an age where its getting hardrer and harder to appy for a job face-to-face and its done on-line, financially-sensitive aviation industry and an ever growing number of us unemployed, it may be time to move on. Unfortunately, my passion for flying began at the age of 5 and I've known no other way of life so my choices are unknown. For the friends I have met throughout my career who've managed to dodge the "bullet", cudos to you for your luck and/or perseverance. My non-pilot friends were always envious of me and now the tables have turned: every day they get up, go to work, pay their bills and have many things to look forward to: I have none of this. Many of us are in the "have-not" category now through no fault of our own and are very disillusioned by our chosen industry. If one were going to bungee-jump and the operator said the bungee had a 50-50 chance of breaking, would you go through with it?

[aileron]

Boeing is saying this is a world pilot requirement, and it is; but the good old CBC reports it to include Canada. Well I just don't see it, with the boomers retiring in earnest with likely only a good decade or so of retirement travel desires by said, we'll hit the downward slope of Canada's demographic. Quite likely we're very close to seeing the apex of airline passenger movement in Canada?

Now that private aviation has been allowed in China, the requirement for offshore training will diminish. The West's hold on aviation, nostalgic as ours with our wisdom and expertise, is in the process of being turned over to Asia. The day of above board salary will go too (as it has for the last 30 years), much the same as N. America's well paid manufacturing and tech jobs. Enjoy our position while it holds, y'all.

As for the "great" pay a welder in Calgary can make, remember your payday depends on you working whether it rains, snows or sleets, outdoors in temperatures ranging between +30 to -30; no thanks! I prefer the cozy environment I work - regardless that it pays less - and I'll still have my body for it when I retire.

[teacher]

I am a commercial airline pilot in Canada. I just watched your segment and couldn't believe what I was hearing.

There is NO pilot shortage in Canada AT ALL.

The only shortage is a shortage of people willing to become pilots and flood an already saturated labour force with more underqualified people. Your segment was used by companies who train flight crew to attempt to boost their recruitment numbers and nothing more.

It takes years to become a succesful commercial pilot let alone land your first job. Your article didn't mention that starting wages are minimum wage at best and sometimes even less. Long hours often spent not flying but loading bags, sweeping hangars and cleaning airplanes. Flying for companies that have little or no respect for pilots and treat them as cheap labour and dreamers that can be taken advantage of.

Your segemnt stated that Canada and the U.S. would need over 97,000 pilots, I beleive that is a stretch when there are only 20,000 commercial pilots licenced in Canada of which 12,000 are airline pilots and not all of the 20,000 are working. In the U.S. several companies are still laying off and few if any are hiring.

There's been talk of a pilot shortage for over a decade and with the exception of a couple years of hiring it's been lay offs or ZERO movement.

The piloting profession doesn't need more pilots, it needs less of them.

[Liquid Charlie]

However, I've had too many "ups-and-downs". Recently the airlline I worked for went bankrupt, the fourth I've had to endure since 1989.

Not throwing stones here but there is a good lesson to be learned from this post for people who are in the industry or getting in. First question I have to ask - can you look back and say that maybe if you had made another decision a few jobs ago before you jumped to lure of the "heavy iron" you might not still be employed and making a reasonable living. This is the cross roads we will all face an some point in time in our careers.

The lure of the "heavy iron" in the charter biz is always a gamble and should be thought more of more as another stepping stone than a life time career move - history will back this up in Canada with only one exception - AT all the others have come and went and wll continue to do so. So consider where you are - look at seniority and project where you can be in 10 years where you are. If you are tied to family chasing the dream does not give you stability. Each time you reset seniority it is a step backwards and a gamble that you won't end up on the street. Think with the big head --

Just having a grey moment -- merry xmas all

[MrWings]

When operators cry "there is a pilot shortage" it translates to "there is a shortage of suckers willing to work for peanuts".

Flying is a fun job. There will always be enough people willing to do it ... even for free.

What is more likely is that there will be a worldwide shortage of experienced pilots.

[teacher]

The lure isn't always the "iron" but the life style and schedule that comes with it. Don't get me wrong, there are a few quality charter and corporate jobs out there but not many. Most end up being a lifetime of being on call with little or no schedule among other negatives. Great for the single person making there way through life but not for a married parent who can't live on a pager their whole life.

..............Oh yah, there is no pilot shortage and won't be for decades if any. More people DO NOT need to be convinced to be pilots. Nothing else needs to be said on this subject as far as I'm concerned.

[Pratt X 3]

How to get more young people in a cockpit?

That's easy. Candy...
"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

[sandbagger757]

"First question I have to ask - can you look back and say that maybe if you had made another decision a few jobs ago before you jumped to lure of the "heavy iron" you might not still be employed and making a reasonable living".

Absolutely.

(Sorry I don't know how to qoute properly)

[westcoasting]

So you have 12,000 hours and cant get a job flying ANYWHERE???!!!!


I don't believe you

[Beefitarian]

How to get more young people in a cockpit?

That's easy. Candy...
"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

Well well well, scraps is a boy dog, isn't he?

Once there's some decent internet speeds and video games on those "glass cockpits" they'll have a hard time keeping the young people out.

[YOWza]

It was a bunch of spin put together by instructors who want to get more students during lean times

Remember that Boeing(which makes simulators as well as planes) is coming up with those numbers and schools that are getting into simulation and multi crew training are organizing(i.e., ATAC) and pushing these numbers hard. There's no way instructors could organize well enough to put out [false] data like this on a global level. Instructors are only going to serve as part of the end product as long as they do not have an organization. The current work conditions ensure this lack of power.