This IS An AVIATION Web Site

[Doc]

There has been been a lot of points made of late, about the misc forum.
Cop bashing, and what have you?
Bottom line. It's Joe's sand box. Some of us, lucky enough to be allowed to play here, sometimes lose touch with that simple fact.
Everybody is guilty to some extent.
It's getting to the point where the question must be asked. Do we want this to be an aviation site? Because, to me it seems to be slipping into something else. If we have a misc forum at all, and Joe, or one of his MODS asks us to "throttle back" on a subject or line of thought, perhaps we should, as GUESTS, have enough respect for our host, to heed his/their requests.
Personally, I'd kind of like to see this site remain. But some of the absolute CRAP that gets "aired" here is really not worthy of semi intelligent folk's time of day.
Thoughts?

[Big Pistons Forever]

I would have no problem if MODs adopted a policy that any post which does not have an aviation nexus gets automatically deleted. I go to to avcanada to read about flying and frankly have no interest in posters opinions on non aviation related subjects.

[PanEuropean]

I agree with both of the above comments 100%. There are thousands of websites in the world where people can shoot their mouth off, there are few that discuss Canadian Aviation.

It's up to the owners and managers of this website (more so than the moderators) to wake up and smell the coffee. A very significant number of the posts here have absolutly nothing at all to do with aviation, and the signal-to-noise ratio is getting pretty bad - if you don't think this is so, just press the "View New Posts" button and look at all the crap there.

I think that if it is not directly connected with Canadian aviation, it shouldn't be on this website... and this includes the silly race to start topics that link directly to press reports that some US based 737 had a toilet overflow while parked at the stand in Rabbithash, Kansas - most of us also visit news websites, and if a foreign aviation news story is sufficiently important, it can be found on mainstream news site.

Michael

[justwork]

If it were me, and I were looking for just aviation information and discussion, I would read the description of the MISC forum:

This forum is for political debate, random thoughts, and everything else that just doesn't seem to fit in the normal forums. THIS FORUM MAY BE FOUND OFFENSIVE TO SOME READERS. PLEASE DO NOT ENTER IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED. We reserve the right to remove messages that we deem inappropriate or posted in poor taste.

and then not click on it... The rest of the forum is full of aviation discussion.

From what I have read there are a lot of users on this forum that are friends. Even though most users are in aviation, sometimes friends don't want to talk shop... Get offended easily, stay out of the misc forum. Are offended with a particular thread, or particular user, then PM a moderator. I never read the thread that got everyone so worked up, but this is part of living in a free country. People are allowed to speak their point of view, even better, people are allowed to have different views on the same topic!

Misc gone or not? I vote no, and if you're offended by it then just stay out.

[PanEuropean]

...THIS FORUM MAY BE FOUND OFFENSIVE TO SOME READERS. PLEASE DO NOT ENTER IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED...then not click on it...

What you are overlooking is that people who place a value on their time generally don't view posts here by going from one forum to another. They do so by clicking on the "View Unread Posts" or the "View New Posts", and all the crap from the Misc forum shows up when either of those filters are selected.

Michael

[bizjets101]

I just found out there was a Misc. / Political Debate / Aviation Humor section!!!!!!

Surely you can't be serious (just kidding).

[Beefitarian]

What you are overlooking is that people who place a value on their time generally don't view posts here by going from one forum to another. They do so by clicking on the "View Unread Posts" or the "View New Posts", and all the crap from the Misc forum shows up when either of those filters are selected.

Michael

I'm not sure what the solution is for that. It could be made into some kind of private or hidden forum like the company ones.
Though it would be better if it was open to join or quit it. I'm not farmiliar with the set up here but I would suspect that's an option.

If not I'm at another forum where everyone who want's a smile can join if they decide they want to make this a "no fun" zone.

[slowstream]

One thing that can be done is for the repeat offenders is to block their I.P address, its much more effective than blocking an e-mail address that anyone can get in under one minute.

I know it does not address people using FBO's computers or other people's but it a good start.

[Flaps 1 Billion]

I would like to see a return to proper, intelligent discussions on aviation related articles or rumours, as this is essentially a rumour network to some degree. There have been a few tasteless jokes lately; hoods and crosses, Doc, and I would like to see those sorts of jokes go by the way side. I've never ventured into the Misc forum so I have no idea what goes on in there, but out here, it's getting a bit stupid.

[OceansEdge]

all of the above ... +1

[TG]

sometimes friends don't want to talk shop...

And that's why I like the misc. forum
Being able to talk about something else than aviation for a change without having to register to 100 other forums directly related to what you feel to discuss for the time being.
I've read some nice and funny stuff there and in my view it would be a shame to close it only because a few couldn't behave properly.

A flight attendant told me once something that could very well apply here.
"It's only 10% of the passenger that are using 90% of our time!"


Jetblast works very well at PPrune, it have its moments sometime but moderation is probably much stiffer and it might be why they manage to talk about religions, politics, guns, cops, etc... Over there without killing each other verbally.

Everybody have an opinion on something and should be free to express it, not impose it.

We are guest here and should behave as so.

[Special K]

Can't you just go to the avcanada home page to avoid all the misc./humour messages?
The original host created that forum many years ago to deal with non aviation discussions. Getting rid of it seems a bit silly and heavy handed.

Like has been said many times before, if you don't like the topic, don't click on it.

Personally, I love the personal attacks and thread hijacks. It reminds me of how there are other things to do then stare at a computer all day and resent others for their posts.

CYA
K

[cdnpilot77]

I take my share of the blame for that non-sense...so many times I tried to turn away but found myself defending peoples lives, over and over. I agree 100% with what doc said and I Lost sight of that.

[justwork]

I predict if the MISC forum is gone there will be a lot more non aviation related threads started in the general forum, but I guess that's why there are moderators. I'd suggest getting a couple more mods if the misc forum remains locked or disappears.

[North Shore]

So is this a website strictly about aviation, or a website where people with a common interest (Aviation) come to discuss?
My vote is for the latter...I'm prepared to put up with some extraneous discussion, as long as it's not from a single-issue poster who adds nothing of value to any other threads.. This is going to become a much duller place if all we can talk about is aviation

[Siddley Hawker]

This is going to become a much duller place if all we can talk about is aviation.

+1.

[Doc]

If we have a misc forum at all, and Joe, or one of his MODS asks us to "throttle back" on a subject or line of thought, perhaps we should, as GUESTS, have enough respect for our host, to heed his/their requests.

Just to reiterate. This was not a call to toss the misc forum, it was a call to respect the wishes of the forum owner and his MOD group. The latest "anti-cop" thread was, I feel something that needed to be seen. (on a misc forum, as long as we do have one) Problem being, as I see it, the overabundance of previous threads on the same subject, ad nausea has rather "polluted the waters" on the subject. I'd like to see it revert back to it's (if not exclusively) aviation orientated roots.

[cdnpilot77]

I still agree 100% with Doc and refer to my statement just posted on the other thread of ths topic

[The Old Fogducker]

So is this a website strictly about aviation, or a website where people with a common interest (Aviation) come to discuss?
My vote is for the latter...I'm prepared to put up with some extraneous discussion, as long as it's not from a single-issue poster who adds nothing of value to any other threads.. This is going to become a much duller place if all we can talk about is aviation

My acquaintance North Shore has described my position perfectly.

One of the things which has kept me in the aircraft business for approximately 4 decades is the people with whom I share the common interest of aviation, but also to learn of other things going on with them .... sometimes it is debate about national security, the concept of a "just war" against evil and tyranny in the world, political events in the news, or what fish tastes best, where is there a good patch of gophers that need shooting, common hobbies, when did they get interested in airplanes and why, where their home town is, what movie star looks best, their favourite songs, vacation spots, what type of work they did before aviation, what types of airplanes have they worked on, family history, stories of personal triumph ... (I have a soft spot for escape stories of refugees that got away from Communist countries in the 50's and 60's,) ... thoughts on the current political scene, speculation about what new car technology will catch on with the populace, the importance of Canada-US relations, sports teams performance, best model airplanes for the dollar, .... and I could go on and on, but you should get the idea of my diverse examples.

The Misc Forum has value as a conversation section of "the aviation personality" in Canada .... a spot the equivalent to the lunch room, or the staff lounge at the hangar. Sometimes its the same as the beer parlour after work ... and like the local booze palace, there are times that testosterone, strong views, hot tempers, and alcohol combine, leading to punch ups in the parking lot.

I enjoy coming here to have a larger segment of the population with whom to interact.

Sometimes I'll run into someone who blatantly offends my sense of right or wrong. I'll explain myself, and challenge the person to at least try to communicate their beliefs so I can understand what makes them tick, and determine how they could review a set of facts and formulate a belief system so diametrically opposed to my sense of morals. I do the same thing in "real life."

I'm from the "I love the cops" crowd ... because one of my grandfathers was a cop and in my opinion, could do no wrong as my grandfather. Further, every cop I ever knew, or know now ... is nothing like the picture painted by "the cop hater crowd" ... a perfect example of how I'd like to discover what experiences caused that individual to become so twisted compared to my life's experience.

If I ran into an individual expressing that sentiment in real life, my reaction would be the same in person as it would be in a forum. Some people don't explain themselves well, either verbally, or in written form. Regrettable, but true.

Not unlike the saying " I'm having a battle of wits with an unarmed man."

My vote of +1 is to tag onto the coat-tails of North Shore.

Joe ... my suggestion, .... keep the forum, but feel free to heavily moderate and delete for racism. You, and only you can decide if the value of having "a staff lunch room" is worth the aggravation when unfortunately some people scribble unflattering info on the wall in magic marker as if its a washroom stall frequented by vandals, and its you who has to clean off the graffiti with a powerful cleaner that still requires a lot of elbow grease to remove.

Regards to all,
The Old Fogducker

[sky's the limit]

It is nice to see this getting proportional attention from the usership for a change, it is too bad Joe had to lock the entire forum to achieve it.

I only have one thing to say, and that is if you, the general users, feel Misc is something valuable to the site, then respect the site, the owner, his rules, other Avacanadians, and frankly the time of Mods who try to look after it. What Misc has degenerated into these past months is none of the above, and should it stay that way then I see no value whatsoever regardless of content. As it stands, it is an unmitigated embarrassment imho.

Treat this place, our fellow users, and anyone else with some respect, post in a way that at least shows an effort to respect the rules and each other, and I feel that Misc. has a valuable place in the Avcanada structure. I do miss the old days where thoughtful, if heated, posting was more the norm than it has been lately.

stl

[square]

Personally I have no problem with the forum, I catch the odd joke or video in there and enjoy it. If I see long posts I'm not interested in they generally don't get an opportunity to irritate me. Deleting a forum isn't going to make the other forums better.. but deleting users would! I understand it's more work than just that, but you could put a couple of the misc stars in to moderate it and let them deal with the fallout

[bmc]

The Misc Forum has value as a conversation section of "the aviation personality" in Canada .... a spot the equivalent to the lunch room, or the staff lounge at the hangar. Sometimes its the same as the beer parlour after work ... and like the local booze palace, there are times that testosterone, strong views, hot tempers, and alcohol combine, leading to punch ups in the parking lot.

I enjoy coming here to have a larger segment of the population with whom to interact.

Sometimes I'll run into someone who blatantly offends my sense of right or wrong. I'll explain myself, and challenge the person to at least try to communicate their beliefs so I can understand what makes them tick, and determine how they could review a set of facts and formulate a belief system so diametrically opposed to my sense of morals. I do the same thing in "real life."

Joe ... my suggestion, .... keep the forum, but feel free to heavily moderate and delete for racism.
Regards to all,
The Old Fogducker

For all of time on the internet over the past 15-18 years, this is the first time I have read a post that says EXACTLY how I feel. It captures my sentiment to a T.

I am a Canadian who is living abroad and has been for close to 13 years. I frequent the Bush section because it takes me back to my days in Resolute, Hall Beach, Great Whale, etc. I read the airline section because I've sepnd my career in that area. I read the aerobatics because I learn about precision flying from sharp, switched on guys.

And I hang out in the Misc section, because it draws all of these guys into the staff house, where Doc is cracking open a Molsen, Just a Canuck is making Kraft Dinner and Haz is walking in farting wide open. Niss is watching Southpark. I am ashamed to say that the racist stuff has prompted me to post stuff I regret later.

You know you can talk shop and learn, and you do. You know you can get into discussions off topic, and you do. But it's the bar, the lounge, coffee shop. That's what it is for me. I am back on a float dock on the west coast waiting for the weather to clear and listening to Cat Driver share yet another story with us.

Close the Misc and bar just closed.

Moderate it strongly and it will survive. It won't be the first time a pilot's been thrown out of a bar.

[Prairie Chicken]

I'm with bmc, North Shore, & OFD. My vote would be to continue the Misc section for all of the reasons previously stated but to moderate heavily--and for guests to try to ack like the adults I assume they are.

Having said that, I rarely venture into the Misc. forum. The warning gave me pause, and then after a few looks at the venem posted there & I had no interest in returning. It would be nice to have a place to go to discuss non-aviation subjects with aviation-oriented folks--but not if it is as poisonous as some posts I've seen there.

The decision is Joe's I guess, with concurrence from the Mods. I can live with or without the Misc section.

[ktcanuck]

Yes, this is an aviation web site and the owner placed a forum here for aviation types to discuss other issues. Did anyone consider that the issue of police misbehavior and the lack of independent and effective oversight was serious enough to warrant the kind of discussion that has transpired? If the owner does not like this issue discussed then he should say so - he has the power to stop it via his mods. And what to do about the small number of posters accused of not having valid contributions to make to the discussion? Well, you have them in any thread, aviation or otherwise and you moderate them accordingly.

So let's get to the real point. Does the owner want to stop this discussion or not? If so then stop it.

[cdnpilot77]

police misbehavior and the lack of independent and effective oversight was serious enough to warrant the kind of discussion that has transpired?

I think any rational person can see that it went way beyond that

So let's get to the real point. Does the owner want to stop this discussion or not? If so then stop it

They tried, it was not respected