Is it just me or is the number of Cpl's training for the Instructor rating down substantially ? Of all the newly minted Cpl's I have talked to recently, not one showed any interest in pursuing the Instructor rating. I was also chatting with a TC guy the other day and he thought there was only 3 persons currently training to be Instructors in the the entire BC lower mainland. What's it like in the rest of Canada ?

Only 3 instructors-in-training in the entire BC lower mainland?!? That just doesn't sound right at all...

Maybe new CPLs are realizing that not everyone is cut out to be instructors and it should be left to the guys who actually might enjoy doing it.

I know there's more instructor rating students at our flight school alone at CYOO. We have 4 on to go right now.

We have two instructor candidates on the go right now at CYQS. I have noticed more ads looking for instructors recently. Last summer we had class 3's & 4's inquiring about a job, but no one is knocking on our door looking for a job lately - I'm not counting the guy who sent the email, "Dear CFI, I have an instructor rating, will you hire me?"

I was also chatting with a TC guy the other day and he thought...

Come on BPF, you should know better. If it was someone from TC its probably because those were the only three people he got caught and had to interact with when he was trying to sneak from his cubicle to go get another cup of coffee. Its also probable he's been on vacation for the last three months, or his pre vacation vacation time, or maybe his post-vacation-not-really-at-work time.

Numbers wise I have two who are going to be starting next month, if it ever stops snowing.

Maybe with industry hiring starting a gradual upswing, 200 hr wonders think they can get a "real" job without instructing?

Count me in for next year

maybe students pick up on the bitterness of their instructors and think 'why would i subject myself to that'

Ice Pilots must have made everyone realize that you can work the ramp, MAKE money, and get a job flying. Not spend another $10,000, to sit right seat and lose hair teaching people to fly.

BEFAN5 wrote:Ice Pilots must have made everyone realize that you can work the ramp, MAKE money, and get a job flying. Not spend another $10,000, to sit right seat and lose hair teaching people to fly.

How would Ice Pilots encourage ANYONE to go work a ramp somewhere?

You mean you wouldn't work there?

Instructing doesn't make sense for everyone.

An instructor rating would have cost me $10,000, and months of my life. Then I would have to work a job that only pays when I have students.

In the time it would have taken me to do the above, I got a job on a ramp, did my time and now have hundreds of turbine time and am learning more than I ever would have sitting in a right seat doing circuits hours and hours per week.

If a 16 year old came to me and said I want to be a pilot what should I do, I would without any hesitation suggest they get a job on a ramp so the day they finish their training they can walk off the ramp into an airplane. (and for a lot less money). Another factor already mentioned is movement is starting to happen. You will get to that "dream job" a lot faster these days if you bypass the instructing.

Oh i'm not arguing that a ramp job is a decent way to start out. Instructing and ramping both have their pros and cons. I'm not even sayin the Buffalo rampie would be that terrible. I'm just saying that fsomeone doing their training or thinking about getting into aviation, watching Ice Pilots would probably steer more people away than attract them to ramping.

I would like to talk to a real Buffalo rampie... I have always wondered if that "is" the way Joe is or if it is a History TV producers way to keep the ratings up.

Obviously there is a made for TV aspect to Buffalo, but guys and a girl I know who did ramp stint up there worked their ass off, and took a fair bit of shit. The good news is a stint ramping for Joe will look good on your resume. Say what you will about Joe, but with him in charge Buffalo is a Darwinian meritocracy, and there are worse business models.........

BEFAN5 wrote: In the time it would have taken me to do the above, I got a job on a ramp, did my time and now have hundreds of turbine time and am learning more than I ever would have sitting in a right seat doing circuits hours and hours per week...

...You will get to that "dream job" a lot faster these days if you bypass the instructing.

This often depends on the state of the industry. I did four years of instructing, and the length of time spent was my choice since I was also in university at that time. I had friends who when I started instructing, started out on a ramp up north, which is fine. But after four years, I moved on to fly PIC on a twin piston and turbine while some were still on the ramp, others were just starting to fly Navajos. I agree that sometimes the ramp can be faster, other times not. In my time, the industry was bad and the simple matter of the fact was I had flight time whereas rampies did not. Now that industry is improving, rampies are able and ready and know the operation at a time when the company needs them right now.

at CYKF a lot of CPL students are working on their instructor ratings. A lot of people realize that getting the first job is harsh, especially if they don't want to move away - the instructor option is better in that sense that you can stay close to home. I know a lot of Class 4's have problems getting a job, especially in the GTA.

So realistically anyone that holds a class 4 flight instructor like me (unemployed as an instructor since getting the rating 2009) in the GTA (Ontario) does not have any hell of a chance of getting employment as one.

I keep going back to the schools that I dropped off resumes and they keep saying that they are not hiring due to the economical climate, fair. A month later I check their website and see 2 brand new class 4's on their roster, I guess these guys trained there and ended up getting a job, fair.

So, unless I work at the school pumping fuel and dragging airplanes out of the hangar or dispatching and keep bugging the CFI I will never get a job as a flight instructor until that BOOM happens like it did back in 2008/09 where everybody was hiring and I unfortunately missed that boat.

Just my thoughts,

bluenote wrote:So realistically anyone that holds a class 4 flight instructor like me (unemployed as an instructor since getting the rating 2009) in the GTA (Ontario) does not have any hell of a chance of getting employment as one.

I keep going back to the schools that I dropped off resumes and they keep saying that they are not hiring due to the economical climate, fair. A month later I check their website and see 2 brand new class 4's on their roster, I guess these guys trained there and ended up getting a job, fair.

So, unless I work at the school pumping fuel and dragging airplanes out of the hangar or dispatching and keep bugging the CFI I will never get a job as a flight instructor until that BOOM happens like it did back in 2008/09 where everybody was hiring and I unfortunately missed that boat.

Just my thoughts,

Have you considered maybe leaving the GTA for a while?

I have applied from B.C. to Nfld. Not lately in the past weeks though, so I don't know what has happend.

Carli v.A. wrote:at CYKF a lot of CPL students are working on their instructor ratings. A lot of people realize that getting the first job is harsh, especially if they don't want to move away - the instructor option is better in that sense that you can stay close to home. I know a lot of Class 4's have problems getting a job, especially in the GTA.

You are also talking about one of the biggest schools in the province. Which also has a college and university program attached....

Keep your chin up! Summer is coming and with that comes the Air Cadet Flying Scholarships. If you do a little research in your region and find out who will be training Cadets, your resume just might be favourably considered. Even if it is just for the summer, a class 4 with experience is much more employable than a class 4 without. Depending on how they choose to run their programs, you just might be able to get your class 3 out of it.

I applied back in January at the Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre and handed my resume(4th time) to the CFI there. He told me he hired 3 guys to help out with the College and University Program and because they had experience instructing and some commercial flying under their belt he hired them instead of new class 4 shmuks like me.

He told me he received 92 resumes from instructors (92!) and he narrowed it down to 25 and he chose from that pile.

My thoughts are if there is no hiring boom it will take me years to get employment as a flight instructor because all the schools train their own and hire their own.

Oh well,

You might have to leave YYZ, some year.

Hedley I tried leaving Ontario but no luck so far anywhere.

I applied back in January....

While I can appreciate people sticking with it, when I get applications at the slow time of the year I get the idea that most of the applicants are going through the motions. Just like that rude fellow on the phone wanting a job the other day. I always will talk to them - but I have to give them the same low down. Until the snow lets up, I ain't thinking about hiring. There is always the possiblity one might have a sudden need for an instructor during the winter, but unless a disgruntled student comes in and shoots one of them, I don't see that as a probability. They, like any new hires, are most likely to move on in the spring.

I will say that the last few people who have called on the phone have been exceptionally lacking in social skills. The last one - even after giving his name - hung up when I said I didn't have any immediate openings. His loss, I guess he wasn't interested in who might be looking and when. Either way, not sure how some of these guys are intending to get work anywhere - especially in such a people oriented business - with said attitudes.