Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
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Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... 90649.html
OTTAWA -- With a federal election campaign widely expected to begin as early as next week, the Conservatives are scrambling to replace their candidate in a riding the party has salivated over for years.
Winnipeg South Centre Conservative candidate Raymond Hall resigned Sunday, citing "personal reasons" in a letter to riding association president Tim Burt.
Hall said Monday he will not be making any comments about what happened -- but there are signs he was pressured to step down.
Conservative insiders say party brass felt with Hall at the helm, the party's chances of capturing the riding were close to zero.
Winnipeg South Centre -- a longtime Liberal riding now held by Anita Neville -- has been on the Tory target list for years. The Conservatives have eaten away at the Liberal dominance there but still finished more than 2,300 votes back in the 2008 election.
"He had pedigree but didn't want to do the retail politics necessary, made promises he didn't deliver and suffered from not listening to those that wanted to help him," said one party official, referring to Hall.
Hall's resignation comes just a week before the Conservative government is expected to be defeated either on its budget or a confidence vote over the speaker's rulings finding the government in contempt of Parliament. If that happens, the country will be plunged into its fourth federal election in seven years.
Hall, a pilot and lawyer by trade, was not well known within Conservative circles. He won the nomination in a surprise victory over Winnipeg downtown developer Hart Mallin in 2009. Since then he developed a noticeable presence in the riding with numerous bus bench advertisements and a campaign office in a strip mall on Corydon Avenue just west of Kenaston Boulevard. That office was shut down due to the expense last year.
But it appears Hall and Conservative organizers in Manitoba never meshed.
In December, there was a heated meeting of the riding association and in January a new president was elected, said a party official. Several people were not happy with how Hall was working, particularly in such a desired riding, and there was a lot of arguing and bad blood between various people.
The Conservatives now need to replace Hall quickly. A nomination meeting or an announcement of a candidate being appointed is expected within a few days.
Mallin would not say whether he is still interested in running for the Conservatives when reached by the Free Press Monday.
"It would be inappropriate for me to comment until the party makes an announcement," he said.
Although there is a fear the party waited too long to replace Hall there is also a feeling there will be more unity with another candidate. However, the new candidate will have a steep hill to climb to get a campaign organized. They will also suffer from the after-effects of the discord that has plagued the riding association, culminating in Hall's departure.
The Conservatives have been criticized from within for mucking around with nominations before. Former Conservative MP Inky Mark said the nomination process to replace him in Dauphin-Swan River-Marquette was riddled with interference. He said Bob Sopuck was the only candidate the party ever recognized to run even though two others wanted to challenge him. Sopuck won the byelection to replace Mark in November.
On Sunday, Mark wrote another letter blasting the Conservatives for not allowing an open nomination again in Dauphin this time.
mia.rabson@freepress.mb.ca
Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition March 15, 2011 A8
OTTAWA -- With a federal election campaign widely expected to begin as early as next week, the Conservatives are scrambling to replace their candidate in a riding the party has salivated over for years.
Winnipeg South Centre Conservative candidate Raymond Hall resigned Sunday, citing "personal reasons" in a letter to riding association president Tim Burt.
Hall said Monday he will not be making any comments about what happened -- but there are signs he was pressured to step down.
Conservative insiders say party brass felt with Hall at the helm, the party's chances of capturing the riding were close to zero.
Winnipeg South Centre -- a longtime Liberal riding now held by Anita Neville -- has been on the Tory target list for years. The Conservatives have eaten away at the Liberal dominance there but still finished more than 2,300 votes back in the 2008 election.
"He had pedigree but didn't want to do the retail politics necessary, made promises he didn't deliver and suffered from not listening to those that wanted to help him," said one party official, referring to Hall.
Hall's resignation comes just a week before the Conservative government is expected to be defeated either on its budget or a confidence vote over the speaker's rulings finding the government in contempt of Parliament. If that happens, the country will be plunged into its fourth federal election in seven years.
Hall, a pilot and lawyer by trade, was not well known within Conservative circles. He won the nomination in a surprise victory over Winnipeg downtown developer Hart Mallin in 2009. Since then he developed a noticeable presence in the riding with numerous bus bench advertisements and a campaign office in a strip mall on Corydon Avenue just west of Kenaston Boulevard. That office was shut down due to the expense last year.
But it appears Hall and Conservative organizers in Manitoba never meshed.
In December, there was a heated meeting of the riding association and in January a new president was elected, said a party official. Several people were not happy with how Hall was working, particularly in such a desired riding, and there was a lot of arguing and bad blood between various people.
The Conservatives now need to replace Hall quickly. A nomination meeting or an announcement of a candidate being appointed is expected within a few days.
Mallin would not say whether he is still interested in running for the Conservatives when reached by the Free Press Monday.
"It would be inappropriate for me to comment until the party makes an announcement," he said.
Although there is a fear the party waited too long to replace Hall there is also a feeling there will be more unity with another candidate. However, the new candidate will have a steep hill to climb to get a campaign organized. They will also suffer from the after-effects of the discord that has plagued the riding association, culminating in Hall's departure.
The Conservatives have been criticized from within for mucking around with nominations before. Former Conservative MP Inky Mark said the nomination process to replace him in Dauphin-Swan River-Marquette was riddled with interference. He said Bob Sopuck was the only candidate the party ever recognized to run even though two others wanted to challenge him. Sopuck won the byelection to replace Mark in November.
On Sunday, Mark wrote another letter blasting the Conservatives for not allowing an open nomination again in Dauphin this time.
mia.rabson@freepress.mb.ca
Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition March 15, 2011 A8
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Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinio ... 17354.html
Irreconcilable differences?
By: Dan Lett
Posted: 03/15/2011 12:15 PM | Comments: 1
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A federal election could be coming soon. Very soon. Like in a week or so soon. If you're a registered political party and you're in this election to win it, what do you do now in the final days before a writ is (possibly) dropped? Why you dump your candidate and find someone new.
There are more than a few 'WTFs' flying around Winnipeg South Centre today as it is confirmed that Tory candidate Raymond Hall has been dumped by his party. Word leaked out Sunday, and by Monday it was all over. Hall hasn't said much, but reading between the lines and relying on party sources, it appears the riding association was not satisfied with Hall's work ethic. He has been a nominated candidate for nearly two years. His face graces billboards and bus benches all over the riding. He was touted as the kind of candidate that would finally topple Liberal MP Anita Neville, one of only two Grits left standing in the city of Winnipeg. That was then.
Now, Hall is being characterized as a quirky, unpredictable guy who would not get with the program. And by program, we mean the much-vaunted Conservative "play book" that the central party's war room drafts for ridings they want to steal from other parties. No one has actually leaked the play book, so it's anyone's guess about what's actually in it. What we do know is that the WSS Tory riding association has had trouble finding candidates who will stick by it. The Tory candidate in this riding in the last federal election, Trevor Kennerd, failed to take down Neville and Tories in the riding indicated it was because he couldn't or wouldn't stick to the play book. Is there any truth to this analysis? If we accept that Kennerd in fact did not follow the direction of the central party, then the result seems to suggest that the play book is at present untested.
What about Hall? Outside of politics, Hall did in fact bring some weird baggage to the table. A retired Air Canada pilot turned lawyer, Hall was a freelance whistle blower for years. He was quoted extensively in national media criticizing Air Canada for cutbacks and safety concerns. After he retired as a pilot, he successfully fought to reinstate two pilots who (like him) were forced to retire at age 60. This was done through a landmark ruling by the Canadian Human Rights Commission that determined Air Canada's forced retirement policy was unconstitutional. Ironically, this ruling not only made him public enemy number one for Air Canada, it also made him unpopular with the Air Canada Pilots Association, the union representing pilots. The ACPA membership supports the principle of forced retirement at age 60 for reasons that are not entirely clear. And they didn't like Hall upsetting the apple cart with his court case.Hall also filed a complaint with the Canada Industrial Relations Board alleging that the ACPA failed to properly represent the retired pilots when they wanted to file a grievance.
Although it's hard to see how that battle could affect riding politics, sources in the riding confirm that they didn't like Hall's case against Air Canada and didn't like the fact that he used the Canadian Human Rights Commission to make his point. Any way you slice it, the RA didn't like Hall and has decided to go in a different direction. However, having laid an egg with Kennerd in 2008 and following that up with an untimely execution of Hall, perhaps the problem is not with the candidates, but with the riding association.
It seems a bit spiteful to dump a candidate this close to an election, even if he was not putting in all the work necessary to topple the Grits. Perhaps the riding association executive should have rolled up its sleeves and helped Hall to more solid footing. A good RA exec can make all the difference. (My father was part of a riding association who helped former Tory MP and cabinet minister Otto Jelinek get elected in the early 1970s in Toronto. It has always stood to me as proof that a group of smart people can, if they want, get almost anyone elected. See former Ontario Premier Mike Harris for more evidence.)
Hall is the fall guy now. He has refused to give his side of what happened. But it seems at this very late stage of the game that the riding association has to take at least as much, if not more, blame for the Conservative Party's inability to mount a serious challenge in Winnipeg South Centre.
Dan Lett, Winnipeg Free Press
Irreconcilable differences?
By: Dan Lett
Posted: 03/15/2011 12:15 PM | Comments: 1
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A federal election could be coming soon. Very soon. Like in a week or so soon. If you're a registered political party and you're in this election to win it, what do you do now in the final days before a writ is (possibly) dropped? Why you dump your candidate and find someone new.
There are more than a few 'WTFs' flying around Winnipeg South Centre today as it is confirmed that Tory candidate Raymond Hall has been dumped by his party. Word leaked out Sunday, and by Monday it was all over. Hall hasn't said much, but reading between the lines and relying on party sources, it appears the riding association was not satisfied with Hall's work ethic. He has been a nominated candidate for nearly two years. His face graces billboards and bus benches all over the riding. He was touted as the kind of candidate that would finally topple Liberal MP Anita Neville, one of only two Grits left standing in the city of Winnipeg. That was then.
Now, Hall is being characterized as a quirky, unpredictable guy who would not get with the program. And by program, we mean the much-vaunted Conservative "play book" that the central party's war room drafts for ridings they want to steal from other parties. No one has actually leaked the play book, so it's anyone's guess about what's actually in it. What we do know is that the WSS Tory riding association has had trouble finding candidates who will stick by it. The Tory candidate in this riding in the last federal election, Trevor Kennerd, failed to take down Neville and Tories in the riding indicated it was because he couldn't or wouldn't stick to the play book. Is there any truth to this analysis? If we accept that Kennerd in fact did not follow the direction of the central party, then the result seems to suggest that the play book is at present untested.
What about Hall? Outside of politics, Hall did in fact bring some weird baggage to the table. A retired Air Canada pilot turned lawyer, Hall was a freelance whistle blower for years. He was quoted extensively in national media criticizing Air Canada for cutbacks and safety concerns. After he retired as a pilot, he successfully fought to reinstate two pilots who (like him) were forced to retire at age 60. This was done through a landmark ruling by the Canadian Human Rights Commission that determined Air Canada's forced retirement policy was unconstitutional. Ironically, this ruling not only made him public enemy number one for Air Canada, it also made him unpopular with the Air Canada Pilots Association, the union representing pilots. The ACPA membership supports the principle of forced retirement at age 60 for reasons that are not entirely clear. And they didn't like Hall upsetting the apple cart with his court case.Hall also filed a complaint with the Canada Industrial Relations Board alleging that the ACPA failed to properly represent the retired pilots when they wanted to file a grievance.
Although it's hard to see how that battle could affect riding politics, sources in the riding confirm that they didn't like Hall's case against Air Canada and didn't like the fact that he used the Canadian Human Rights Commission to make his point. Any way you slice it, the RA didn't like Hall and has decided to go in a different direction. However, having laid an egg with Kennerd in 2008 and following that up with an untimely execution of Hall, perhaps the problem is not with the candidates, but with the riding association.
It seems a bit spiteful to dump a candidate this close to an election, even if he was not putting in all the work necessary to topple the Grits. Perhaps the riding association executive should have rolled up its sleeves and helped Hall to more solid footing. A good RA exec can make all the difference. (My father was part of a riding association who helped former Tory MP and cabinet minister Otto Jelinek get elected in the early 1970s in Toronto. It has always stood to me as proof that a group of smart people can, if they want, get almost anyone elected. See former Ontario Premier Mike Harris for more evidence.)
Hall is the fall guy now. He has refused to give his side of what happened. But it seems at this very late stage of the game that the riding association has to take at least as much, if not more, blame for the Conservative Party's inability to mount a serious challenge in Winnipeg South Centre.
Dan Lett, Winnipeg Free Press
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Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
Congratulations Ray
for not letting political rail roading corrupt your ideals and standing up for what you believe in. The world would be a much better place if more people had your backbone to fight for what's right rather than what's popular.
" Fighting for rights benefits society at large by reasserting the individual’s right to fair and just treatment. It might be argued that each of us, has not only a right to complain when we receive unsatisfactory treatment, but a duty to do so in order that injustice or indifference should not thrive unopposed."

" Fighting for rights benefits society at large by reasserting the individual’s right to fair and just treatment. It might be argued that each of us, has not only a right to complain when we receive unsatisfactory treatment, but a duty to do so in order that injustice or indifference should not thrive unopposed."
Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it !!!
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
"The ACPA membership supports the principle of forced retirement at age 60 for reasons that are not entirely clear."Winnipeg Free Press wrote: The ACPA membership supports the principle of forced retirement at age 60 for reasons that are not entirely clear. And they didn't like Hall upsetting the apple cart with his court case.Hall also filed a complaint with the Canada Industrial Relations Board alleging that the ACPA failed to properly represent the retired pilots when they wanted to file a grievance.
Although it's hard to see how that battle could affect riding politics, sources in the riding confirm that they didn't like Hall's case against Air Canada and didn't like the fact that he used the Canadian Human Rights Commission to make his point.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
A Quotation from Arthur Wellesley Duke of Wellington after the Battle of Waterloo.
" Next to a lost battle, nothing is so sad as a battle that has been won".
" Next to a lost battle, nothing is so sad as a battle that has been won".
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
MackTheKnife wrote:Congratulations Rayfor not letting political rail roading corrupt your ideals and standing up for what you believe in. The world would be a much better place if more people had your backbone to fight for what's right rather than what's popular.
" Fighting for rights benefits society at large by reasserting the individual’s right to fair and just treatment. It might be argued that each of us, has not only a right to complain when we receive unsatisfactory treatment, but a duty to do so in order that injustice or indifference should not thrive unopposed."

I am starting to question who is myopic in all of this.Raymond Hall wrote:
A reporter for a very large Canadian newspaper is doing a feature story on the Air Canada mandatory retirement issue that will run this Saturday.
Edited: Looks like the other Tsunami will take priority and this story will get pushed back.

Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
See posting on the other thread. Your attempts to smear RH's character as a tool to perpetuate age discrimination at Air Canada are not worthy of the overarching issue, but are more in line with the mob mentality on the ACPA forum.yycflyguy wrote:MackTheKnife wrote:Congratulations Rayfor not letting political rail roading corrupt your ideals and standing up for what you believe in. The world would be a much better place if more people had your backbone to fight for what's right rather than what's popular.
" Fighting for rights benefits society at large by reasserting the individual’s right to fair and just treatment. It might be argued that each of us, has not only a right to complain when we receive unsatisfactory treatment, but a duty to do so in order that injustice or indifference should not thrive unopposed."Failure to comply to the party line. Failure to devote appropriate dedication and time to the pending election and its constituents. Name and party tied to embarrassing publications regarding controversial legal battles and you are celebrating him being "dumped" as freedom fighter? Quotes on an aviation forum that makes light of an international disaster.
I am starting to question who is myopic in all of this.Raymond Hall wrote:
A reporter for a very large Canadian newspaper is doing a feature story on the Air Canada mandatory retirement issue that will run this Saturday.
Edited: Looks like the other Tsunami will take priority and this story will get pushed back.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
Not my intention at all. All those reasons were given in the Winnipeg Free Press by reporters attempting to explain why a candidate would be "dumped" (their words, not mine) so close to an imminent free election. Mr Hall is free to explain here in his own words what happened.
Would "mob mentality" be synonymous with "majority voice"?
Would "mob mentality" be synonymous with "majority voice"?
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
I don't see what this issue has to do with mandatory retirement. You're trying to smear a person's character as a tool in this fight just like so many other people incapable of debating mandatory retirement on its merits.yycflyguy wrote:Not my intention at all. All those reasons were given in the Winnipeg Free Press by reporters attempting to explain why a candidate would be "dumped" (their words, not mine) so close to an imminent free election. Mr Hall is free to explain here in his own words what happened.
"Mob mentality" is when a bunch of people indulge in attacking someone, goading each other on and generally behaving like a bunch of goons.
This is your chance to distance yourself from the disgusting and juvenile character attacks you surely read on the ACPA forum.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
First ... the article was posted by "jungle jet"yycflyguy wrote:Mr Hall is free to explain here in his own words what happened.
Second ... in the article it says ... Hall said Monday he will not be making any comments about what happened
Ray is a leader, not a follower.
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Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
Uh, no, because the Mob is a clear Minority.Would "mob mentality" be synonymous with "majority voice"?
The Mob component can remain cloistered in their little shell on the ACPA Forum.
In fact it’s a Godsend.
Their self-internment keeps them out of the Mainstream while an exceptional legal team and no less than 6 Federal Agencies combine to steamroll one of the largest cases of mass Discrimination in the entire country.
Just call their Forum a self-imposed prisoner of war camp, if you will, camped out at a URL in ether space, separate from the sanity of the rest of society.
The general public doesn’t need to see that kind of debasement in action, and it is best kept under a wet blanket. Thank God those out in the real world are protected from the fallout from that kind of alleged activity. Just call that URL a containment vessel.
Hundreds of Air Canada pilots, with the numbers growing daily, are eternally grateful and provide unwavering support to Mr. Hall and the entire legal team, also the CHRC, the CHRT, the CIRB, the Federal Court, and other major prominent Canadian groups, for their commitment to eliminating a rampant mindless case of Discrimination in the workplace at AC.
Despite the fact that Mr. Hall would have provided a great voice for pilots and air transport in general as an MP, his reasons for not following up on that pursuit are his, and in the meantime going forward, his team’s brilliant defense of the huge number of pilots at AC who seek their rights under the Charter has a massive grateful following and admiration.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
I am not smearing the person. I am pointing out that the poster trivialized what is playing out in Japan. I would have called you out on it too as "Rockie" the poster. Mr Hall elected to use his name as a poster, so how is someone supposed to point out an "unfortunate" comment when their poster name IS their name without threats of defamation?Rockie wrote:I don't see what this issue has to do with mandatory retirement. You're trying to smear a person's character as a tool in this fight just like so many other people incapable of debating mandatory retirement on its merits.yycflyguy wrote:Not my intention at all. All those reasons were given in the Winnipeg Free Press by reporters attempting to explain why a candidate would be "dumped" (their words, not mine) so close to an imminent free election. Mr Hall is free to explain here in his own words what happened.
"Mob mentality" is when a bunch of people indulge in attacking someone, goading each other on and generally behaving like a bunch of goons.
This is your chance to distance yourself from the disgusting and juvenile character attacks you surely read on the ACPA forum.
The disgusting and juvenile character attacks on the ACPA forum are a 2 way street. I am sure you saw the comment calling junior pilots "pricks".
I have always been ready to move on from this mess but it looks like it will take years to fully play out.
Awesome. Then as a minority, our rights are clearing being discriminated against. Lawsuit to followaccumulous wrote:Uh, no, because the Mob is a clear Minority.Would "mob mentality" be synonymous with "majority voice"?

Last edited by yycflyguy on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
RH in no way trivialized the tragedy in Japan. It is you who is doing that by making a connection that didn't exist before.
If you think the repugnant behavior currently on display on the ACPA forum has an equivalence with the FP60 group you are haven't been paying close enough attention.
If you think the repugnant behavior currently on display on the ACPA forum has an equivalence with the FP60 group you are haven't been paying close enough attention.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
OK Rockie. You win.
ALL Junior pilots ARE "pricks" and they ALL exhibit repugnant behavior and I read waaaay to much into the trivialization postings made here about that "other" tsunami. Apologies. See how flexible I can be?
You are the biggest advocate of open and intelligent "debate" but refuse to acknowledge valid counter arguments as seen from the majority of the membership. The love-in amongst the flypast60 group is approaching cult levels here. As they say, we shall continue to agree to disagree.
ALL Junior pilots ARE "pricks" and they ALL exhibit repugnant behavior and I read waaaay to much into the trivialization postings made here about that "other" tsunami. Apologies. See how flexible I can be?
You are the biggest advocate of open and intelligent "debate" but refuse to acknowledge valid counter arguments as seen from the majority of the membership. The love-in amongst the flypast60 group is approaching cult levels here. As they say, we shall continue to agree to disagree.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
Are you accusing me of calling junior pilots pricks, or of agreeing with it? Read the forum. Some of the pilots saying the most reprehensible things are very senior. Have to ever read or heard of FP60 advocates arranging a "meeting" in the parking lot even in jest?
How About we just accept that you agree with what's currently going on over there.
How About we just accept that you agree with what's currently going on over there.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
I guess I will have to spell it out for you then.
Debate has 2 sides to an issue.
Both sides are guilty of what you called repugnant behaviour and I am not particularly proud to see it occurring amongst a group of professionals.
I am not accusing you of anything. Sheesh.
Debate has 2 sides to an issue.
Both sides are guilty of what you called repugnant behaviour and I am not particularly proud to see it occurring amongst a group of professionals.
I am not accusing you of anything. Sheesh.

Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
yycflyguy wrote:I guess I will have to spell it out for you then.
Debate has 2 sides to an issue.
Both sides are guilty of what you called repugnant behaviour and I am not particularly proud to see it occurring amongst a group of professionals.
I am not accusing you of anything. Sheesh.
Wouldn't it have been great to actually have had a debate this past six years instead of what has occurred and is occurring now? The only option left open was the legal one, and once started there was no putting that genie back in the bottle
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
I keep hearing about how we should have debated this 6 yrs ago. Can you please enlighten us as to the alternatives the FP60 group offered up?
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Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
At the risk of taking this thread further off topic...why pray tell, would it be the FP60 group's responsibility to provide alternatives...especially to an Association which had it's mind firmly made up on where it was planning to steer the membership from the get-go.bcflyer wrote:I keep hearing about how we should have debated this 6 yrs ago. Can you please enlighten us as to the alternatives the FP60 group offered up?
We continually lose sight of the other 40,000+/- carrier pilots in North America that are permitted to remain in their job past age 60. The FP60 group has merely asked to do the same.
bcflyer...Once the global change had clearly taken hold in late 2006....OUR Association needed to face up to the fact that attempting to be the only carrier to continue force-retiring it's pilots at 60 was going to be a losing issue. Delaying the inevitable has only cost the pilots....a number which could very well be over $15,000,000.
ACPA, not the FP 60 group, needed the foresight and maturity to come up with alternatives to try and offset any initial downside to the membership. Alternatives such as negotiating an early retirement incentive program, pension indexing to help those moving to half-salary seem a little less daunting...just to name a few. Regardless of what you think, many of those in FP60 do not have a full pension with retirement at age 60.
Last edited by SilentMajority on Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
There was no alternative, FP60 will be a reality. That's what ACPA should have realized and then set about scoring the windfall gains for the Pilots. It could have been a huge Win Win. The windfall gains would have allowed a Status Pay/Flat Pay system to be implemented whereby all Pilots would emerge winners. Because of ACPA's mismanagement all Pilots will emerge losers. That's what ACPA should have been hammering out, starting Six years ago, or earlier. Are you expecting anything from the present negotiations? The ACPA President has stated that AC Pilots are "overpaid". How did that go down with you?bcflyer wrote:I keep hearing about how we should have debated this 6 yrs ago. Can you please enlighten us as to the alternatives the FP60 group offered up?
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Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
Guess an invite to fly Harper's chartered AC A320 for this up coming campaign isn't gonna happen.....





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Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
bcflyer,bcflyer wrote:I keep hearing about how we should have debated this 6 yrs ago. Can you please enlighten us as to the alternatives the FP60 group offered up?
See my posting here: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66209&p=667956#p667956
The ACPA leadership of the day (and apparently still) believed that mandatory retirement based on age was a "show of hands" issue. So they held a vote ("A" for effort, "F" for judgement) and based on that vote pressed ahead with a fight to challenge the Charter of Rights, amongst other things. They also abandoned any Member (in the sense of supporting his issue) who wanted to continue working past age 60.
This has been, and remains still, an incredible show to watch, with Member pitted against Member. It didn't have to play out this way, but it has been the way chosen.
Cheers,
PS. As a retired ACPA Member, I have been embarassed to read the comments flowing from the recent newspaper articles. I would never have thought that intelligent people would publicly air their dirty laundry in such a crass, vulgar and self-destructive manner. It has not been our finest hour.
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Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
Now, how about that graceful exit?
http://www.raymondhall.com
Compare that to:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1943279/
http://www.raymondhall.com
Compare that to:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1943279/
Re: Winnipeg Free Press Article on Ray Hall
zzzzzzzzzzzzsnore. Some ex-pilot lawyer failed at becoming a hobby politician. Don't these people have....ahh nevermind.
Rights without Responsibilities. Boomer utopia.
Rights without Responsibilities. Boomer utopia.